• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mattis Calls on Biden to Scrap 'America First' Policy, Slow Pullout from Afghanistan

OscarLevant

Gadfly Extraordinaire
Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
16,876
Reaction score
7,397
Location
San Diego
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Liberal
Personally, I've never liked the 'America First' slogan. I think it's a given that all nations do things according to their interests. What I don't like about the slogan is how alienating
it is to our allies. But, as Mattis says, 'America First' has, under Trump, translated as 'America alone', and I don't think that is in our best interest.


Former Defense Secretary Jim Mattis has broken his silence on the election with a public call to President-elect Joe Biden to alter the course of current defense policy.

Alongside three co-authors, Mattis published a piece in Foreign Affairs on Monday warning against abrupt departure from Afghanistan and calling for the elimination of "America First" as a tenet of defense strategy.

"To dismiss U.S. involvement today in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere as 'endless' or 'forever' wars -- as both President Donald Trump and President-elect Joe Biden do -- rather than as support to friendly governments struggling to exert control over their own territory misses the point," Mattis and his co-authors wrote. "It is in the United States' interests to build the capacity of such governments to deal with the threats that concern Americans."

Mattis was joined by Kori Schake, a long-time collaborator and now director of Foreign and Defense Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute; retired Adm. Jim Ellis, former head of U.S. Strategic Command; and Joe Felter, a West Point graduate and Special Forces veteran of Afghanistan who now serves as a fellow at the Hoover Institution.
[...]
In practice, they added, "America first" has meant "America alone," making the nation more vulnerable to emerging threats.
 
One of the greatest things about this Biden vict'ry is that we can get back to working closely together with our traditional allies.

I would bet good money that they have been withholding intel from us.
 
Nice! Perpetual war. The leftists love it! Plus, all that great American leadership! (read money giveaways). That's what Biden is all about! Yaaaaaaay!
 
i still support ending the war in Afghanistan even if Tweety supports doing so for his own twisted reasons.
 
i still support ending the war in Afghanistan even if Tweety supports doing so for his own twisted reasons.


Well, some honesty is refreshing.
 
The number one strategy in Beijing and Moscow is to separate US allies and strategic defense partners from the United States.

Putin built Trump to do this exactly and Trump delivered extensively, ie, each day of the past four years.

Beijing for instance put out the word throughout China that Trump is their guy to wreck the standing and future of the USA globally to the direct benefit of China both long term and short term.

So it was predictable in the CCP-PRC that you'd have to hunt high and low, broadly, long and hard to find a Chinaman who thought Biden was the guy for China.

Because despite the immediate and lasting damage to the Chinese economy by the so called Trade War, and increased US & allies Freedom of Navigation Ops in the South China Sea, and Trump pumping up Taiwan's defenses, Trump was great for China's global standing and nefarious ambitions in their region and globally.

Ordinary Chinese in the street know, just as they've been told by Beijing to know, that Trump as Potus and his Fortress America The Alamo doctrine was a boon to the Chicom Nation and a KO of US influence and standing globally. Mattis is well aware of this which is why it is excellent he taking to guiding us out of it and away from it.
 
trump has ordered the troops out of Afghanistan even when the military and the foreign service people tell him that it's a bad plan.

Mattis is right as he was right when he said trump was a threat to the Constitution.
 
Personally, I've never liked the 'America First' slogan. I think it's a given that all nations do things according to their interests. What I don't like about the slogan is how alienating
it is to our allies. But, as Mattis says, 'America First' has, under Trump, translated as 'America alone', and I don't think that is in our best interest.


Former Defense Secretary Jim Mattis has broken his silence on the election with a public call to President-elect Joe Biden to alter the course of current defense policy.

Alongside three co-authors, Mattis published a piece in Foreign Affairs on Monday warning against abrupt departure from Afghanistan and calling for the elimination of "America First" as a tenet of defense strategy.

"To dismiss U.S. involvement today in Afghanistan, Iraq, and elsewhere as 'endless' or 'forever' wars -- as both President Donald Trump and President-elect Joe Biden do -- rather than as support to friendly governments struggling to exert control over their own territory misses the point," Mattis and his co-authors wrote. "It is in the United States' interests to build the capacity of such governments to deal with the threats that concern Americans."

Mattis was joined by Kori Schake, a long-time collaborator and now director of Foreign and Defense Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute; retired Adm. Jim Ellis, former head of U.S. Strategic Command; and Joe Felter, a West Point graduate and Special Forces veteran of Afghanistan who now serves as a fellow at the Hoover Institution.
[...]
In practice, they added, "America first" has meant "America alone," making the nation more vulnerable to emerging threats.
Looks like someone with Mattis' world view never belonged in Trump's Cabinet so it would be foolish to expect something different from him now.


"A media-celebrated Foreign Affairs column this week by former Defense Secretary James Mattis blasting President Trump’s “America First” theme did not disclose that Mr. Mattis holds a senior position at The Cohen Group, which dedicates itself to making business deals in communist China.
Mr. Trump’s get-tough approach toward China — tariffs and prohibitions on Beijing’s cyber products —is generally counter to The Cohen Group’s objective of bringing China and U.S. companies together in multi-million dollar deals.
The Cohen Group, founded by former Defense Secretary William Cohen and staffed by a number of former high-ranking government and military leaders, has two of its four overseas offices in China."


So ........ Does he belong in anyone's Cabinet?
 
We could be there 20 more years and nothing would change. The Taliban will still be terrorizing the country and the allied forces will have spent more billions for nothing.
And I repeat this from Afghans.
 
Looks like someone with Mattis' world view never belonged in Trump's Cabinet so it would be foolish to expect something different from him now.


"A media-celebrated Foreign Affairs column this week by former Defense Secretary James Mattis blasting President Trump’s “America First” theme did not disclose that Mr. Mattis holds a senior position at The Cohen Group, which dedicates itself to making business deals in communist China.
Mr. Trump’s get-tough approach toward China — tariffs and prohibitions on Beijing’s cyber products —is generally counter to The Cohen Group’s objective of bringing China and U.S. companies together in multi-million dollar deals.
The Cohen Group, founded by former Defense Secretary William Cohen and staffed by a number of former high-ranking government and military leaders, has two of its four overseas offices in China."


So ........ Does he belong in anyone's Cabinet?

America does business with China, So Does Trump and especially Ivanka, who recently secured millions of dollars worth of trademarks from China ( secured during the time Trump was negotiating with China ) in order to market goods there.

So (Mattis involvement with China ) ?

Trump rebuked the TPP, which would have given America an edge in the pacific regions. Now that Trump opted out, China swooped in. This FP article explains why it was a bad idea to opt out.

The Foreign Policy Mag has a paywall, so follow this instruction to read it:

In Google Chrome:

1 Search string:

Trump’s Five Mistaken Reasons for Withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership

2. In the google index, the link to the article should be at the top, so just above the article title ( per above ) is a down arrow, click on it and select 'cache' and you
will be taken to the Google cache of the article. Supplying the actual cache URL here does not work, I tried it.
 
Last edited:
Looks like someone with Mattis' world view never belonged in Trump's Cabinet so it would be foolish to expect something different from him now.


"A media-celebrated Foreign Affairs column this week by former Defense Secretary James Mattis blasting President Trump’s “America First” theme did not disclose that Mr. Mattis holds a senior position at The Cohen Group, which dedicates itself to making business deals in communist China.
Mr. Trump’s get-tough approach toward China — tariffs and prohibitions on Beijing’s cyber products —is generally counter to The Cohen Group’s objective of bringing China and U.S. companies together in multi-million dollar deals.
The Cohen Group, founded by former Defense Secretary William Cohen and staffed by a number of former high-ranking government and military leaders, has two of its four overseas offices in China."


So ........ Does he belong in anyone's Cabinet?

Mattis has done about a hundred times more for this country than Donald Trump and his cultists......put together.
 
America does business with China, So Does Trump and especially Ivanka, who recently secured millions of dollars worth of trademarks from China ( secured during the time Trump was negotiating with China ) in order to market goods there.

So (Mattis involvement with China ) ?

Trump rebuked the TPP, which would have given America an edge in the pacific regions. Now that Trump opted out, China swooped in. This FP article explains why it was a bad idea to opt out.

The Foreign Policy Mag has a paywall, so follow this instruction to read it:

In Google Chrome:

1 Search string:

Trump’s Five Mistaken Reasons for Withdrawing from the Trans-Pacific Partnership

2. In the google index, the link to the article should be at the top, so just above the article title ( per above ) is a down arrow, click on it and select 'cache' and you
will be taken to the Google cache of the article. Supplying the actual cache URL here does not work, I tried it.
"Doing business with China" is not the point.
"Globalism" vs "America First" is.
 
Mattis has done about a hundred times more for this country than Donald Trump and his cultists......put together.
If I want someone to win a war for me then Mattis would be my guy.
If I want someone to blunt China's march toward world economic leader I'd look elsewhere.
 
So do I. But do it with an educated plan, not a tweet.
Exactly. Sit down with the generals, the Joint Chief of staff and say: we need to move towards ending this thing. What are our best options; lay them out for me....
 
"Doing business with China" is not the point.
"Globalism" vs "America First" is.

I don't see the argument for 'America first', if the actual result is America alone.
 
One of the greatest things about this Biden vict'ry is that we can get back to working closely together with our traditional allies.

To accomplish what?
 
i still support ending the war in Afghanistan even if Tweety supports doing so for his own twisted reasons.

You're one of few posters here that seem to have consistent values.
 
One of the greatest things about this Biden vict'ry is that we can get back to working closely together with our traditional allies.

I would bet good money that they have been withholding intel from us.
They’d be foolish to share sensitive information with Trump’s administration.
 
Nice! Perpetual war. The leftists love it! Plus, all that great American leadership! (read money giveaways). That's what Biden is all about! Yaaaaaaay!

Why would leftists love perpetual war? Although calling what we are doing now in Afghanistan doesn't really seem like war.
 
They’d be foolish to share sensitive information with Trump’s administration.
Which then puts our people, and our nation, in potential jeopardy.

I bet US spies during the last 4 years have been worried about their lives. And their families. Way more so than normal.
 
If I want someone to win a war for me then Mattis would be my guy.
If I want someone to blunt China's march toward world economic leader I'd look elsewhere.
Isolationism does nothing to “blunt China’s march toward world economic leader”.
 
Back
Top Bottom