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Math is systematic racism

Y
Sweden said:
I think you know as well as I do that there are many definitions of that slippery word 'liberal'. In New Modern English, say around 1600 it simply meant generous.
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Yes.
And it meant what we now call conservative in the not so distant past.
The word liberal needs to be replaced with a better descriptor.
 
Mathematics itself is purely objective. The issue seems to be with how it's being taught and graded.
Some kids just excel in certain subjects while others do not, which doesn't make grading discriminatory.
 
Sagittarius83 said:
Y

Yes.
And it meant what we now call conservative in the not so distant past.
The word liberal needs to be replaced with a better descriptor.
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Yes. In the USA 'socialist' might be apt.
 
Slowing down the fast learners is racist. Too bad if most of them are Asian or white.
 
For anyone interested in the actual curriculum framework causing all the fuss, here it is.

It looks like a big improvement to me. It has more focus on developing problem-solving skills, and understanding core mathematical concepts than when I was in grade school. Equating mathematical concepts with spatial concepts like sliding and scaling early on will make life easier when they get to the complex plane and quaternion rotations.

I think this curriculum framework will be helpful at all levels. It has some compelling research supporting it, and I don't see any reason to think it will hold anybody back.
 
Math is just a branch of language study. Any students who start with a disadvantage in English, of course assume they will suck at math.

Not teaching math until year 6/7, and then as an option, deserves serious consideration. I really am serious. Not only is math not very useful at the level which 'sticks' it also makes a lot of kids feel bad about themselves, for no good reason.
 
gbg3 said:
I heard a report about this on one of the afternoon Fox News shows today. Somewhere in CA, they had a community meeting about it and over 90% of the parents were firmly opposed to it. To bad liberals have nothing whatsoever to contribute to the thread but silly, worthless snark. It figures, as that's kind of the way many liberal comments have been going on DP lately. I'm wondering if they are are thinking things aren't going so well because actually staying on topic and discussing actual news seems to suddenly be uncomfortable for them.
Here are a couple more links on the topic.

www.latimes.com

Here's how California's bold plan to change math instruction could help or hurt students

Still in draft form, the new math framework emphasizes a deep, inclusive approach to learning — possibly at the expense of allowing students to get to advanced work more quickly.
www.latimes.com www.latimes.com
reason.com

In the Name of Equity, California Will Discourage Students Who Are Gifted at Math

California's Department of Education is working on a new framework for K-12 mathematics that discourages gifted students from enrolling in...
reason.com reason.com
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The more students of color see other students, including those of color, succeeding with math, the more discouraged they will become and wish to ridicule and berate those who want to learn math and try harder in school.
It is far easier to attack students for wanting to study hard and do well in school than it is for the failing student to try harder himself/herself.
That is simply too much work for someone who goes to school to socialize and to be entertained in class.
 
jaypatriot said:
The more students of color see other students, including those of color, succeeding with math, the more discouraged they will become and wish to ridicule and berate those who want to learn math and try harder in school.
It is far easier to attack students for wanting to study hard and do well in school than it is for the failing student to try harder himself/herself.
That is simply too much work for someone who goes to school to socialize and to be entertained in class.
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Really the types of negative underclass people who want to pull others down with them should be publicly flogged.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Really the types of negative underclass people who want to pull others down with them should be publicly flogged.
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Why? That would be illegal in this country under U.S. Law, because smart people know that punishment would be unjust, barbaric, non-Christianlike, and something that only happens in 3rd world countries and oppressive theocratic regimes.
 
Spirit of The Millennium said:
Math is just a branch of language study. Any students who start with a disadvantage in English, of course assume they will suck at math.

Not teaching math until year 6/7, and then as an option, deserves serious consideration. I really am serious. Not only is math not very useful at the level which 'sticks' it also makes a lot of kids feel bad about themselves, for no good reason.
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Making kids feel bad is more about teaching than it is the subject. I don't think we should not teach things because they're hard and struggling them with them makes you feel bad I think we should teach kids to have more resilience and more inner strength to desire to overcome their shortcomings rather than just not teaching them essential life skills.

I remember taking a blueprint reading class in my college level courses half of that class was about multiplying and subtracting dividing and adding fractions because so much of blueprints and dimensioning are about reading tape measures.

I think skimping on mathematics which is essential and so many fields is an incredible disservice to anybody.

I think we just need to change the way we teach it.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I think skimping on mathematics which is essential and so many fields is an incredible disservice to anybody.
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My goodness, me too!!!!!!
But, math is not going to click in all minds. There are some kids (and definitely not all) where math will be a natural. Let them soar in classes with only students with similar math understanding. For the rest, work like crazy to get them to a suitable understanding of basic math so they can adequately function with basic math skills in their lives. BUT, don't try to mix the two groups and DON'T hold back those strong in math because quite a number of students aren't and, frankly, never will be strong in math. Separate the groups!!!!!!
In my very strong opinion, math, more than just about any other subject typically taught to children and teens - will have its haves and have nots, so to speak. It's nearly impossible to get a student who struggles to grasp math (and likely dislikes it as a result) to the level of a student for which math is a natural (and thinks of it as their very favorite subject). Math IS NOT one size fits all, not by a longshot! And, our society desperately (and I mean desperately) needs our math superstars. Give those superstars classes and teachers all their own and don't try to populate those classes with any math challenged students. We simply must have accelerated math classes and they need to be available fairly early.
This topic should have nothing whatsoever to do with race. Kids either have math aptitude or not and it makes no difference at all what color their skin is. One can often see these strong differences in math ability, even with siblings of the same color and with the same parents. I'll repeat again and again and again, math is not one size fits all.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
Really the types of negative underclass people who want to pull others down with them should be publicly flogged.
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Flogging indifferent school kids in public could be problematic.
Bringing parents in to talk to the principal might change some kids' minds, but I doubt it. There was one time when I was in Catholic school and the nun called my mother to school to talk to her about my bad behavior in class. I still remember the shame of having to listen to the nun berate me in front of my mother. My behavior improved.

But today, when you have problem students who don't want to learn and simply want to disrupt a class, I doubt there are single parents who would come into the school to defend their belligerent and angry child.
 
gbg3 said:
My goodness, me too!!!!!!
But, math is not going to click in all minds. There are some kids (and definitely not all) where math will be a natural. Let them soar in classes with only students with similar math understanding. For the rest, work like crazy to get them to a suitable understanding of basic math so they can adequately function with basic math skills in their lives. BUT, don't try to mix the two groups and DON'T hold back those strong in math because quite a number of students aren't and, frankly, never will be strong in math. Separate the groups!!!!!!
In my very strong opinion, math, more than just about any other subject typically taught to children and teens - will have its haves and have nots, so to speak. It's nearly impossible to get a student who struggles to grasp math (and likely dislikes it as a result) to the level of a student for which math is a natural (and thinks of it as their very favorite subject). Math IS NOT one size fits all, not by a longshot! And, our society desperately (and I mean desperately) needs our math superstars. Give those superstars classes and teachers all their own and don't try to populate those classes with any math challenged students. We simply must have accelerated math classes and they need to be available fairly early.
This topic should have nothing whatsoever to do with race. Kids either have math aptitude or not and it makes no difference at all what color their skin is. One can often see these strong differences in math ability, even with siblings of the same color and with the same parents. I'll repeat again and again and again, math is not one size fits all.
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Imagine if Robert Oppenheimer was told, over 100 years ago, that his math skills in high school were making the other students look bad. And he had to keep from demonstrating what a genius he was because of social pressure from the people in his community. The 'Manhattan Project' could have just ended up being a science project that failed.
 
The creator of the white victim OP is banned. Any bets on what Stormfront sock he was?
 
Logician Man said:
Why? That would be illegal in this country under U.S. Law, because smart people know that punishment would be unjust, barbaric, non-Christianlike, and something that only happens in 3rd world countries and oppressive theocratic regimes.
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Similar to the barbarism shown to me in Catholic school when I was caught misbehaving in class. Nuns don't do to problem students what they did to them 50-60 years ago. They might go to jail for that.
But the kids learned to behave in school or get thrown out of school - which was private at the time.
 
There is another side to the coin. There are many children with learning disabilities or may be disadvantaged in other ways but who are in fact very gifted. My DH had serious learning disabilities but back then they weren't well understood. His mother was a fierce defender of his and knew he was incredibly smart....which he is. She pushed and pushed to keep him in math and science at an academic level. Fast forward ....he has a Masters in Physics as well as an advanced degree in Computer Science and went on to be the Cheif Technology officer at a larger Telco. My personal strong belief is that kids should not be labelled and streamed one way or the other but I do believe they should be provided an environment and teaching that allows each of them to grow to their maximum potential. They don't necessarily need to be segregated to do that. It can be done with proper funding, focus and commitment to teach in a way that allows all children to reach maximum potential.
 
jaypatriot said:
Similar to the barbarism shown to me in Catholic school when I was caught misbehaving in class. Nuns don't do to problem students what they did to them 50-60 years ago. They might go to jail for that.
But the kids learned to behave in school or get thrown out of school - which was private at the time.
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I remember those days. I lived directly across the street from the Catholic Church in a small Okie town full of Southern Baptists. Suffice it to say the Baptists didn't see the humor of those gigantic bells in that tall tower going off at all hours of the day and night...lol
 
CLAX1911 said:
Making kids feel bad is more about teaching than it is the subject. I don't think we should not teach things because they're hard and struggling them with them makes you feel bad I think we should teach kids to have more resilience and more inner strength to desire to overcome their shortcomings rather than just not teaching them essential life skills.

I remember taking a blueprint reading class in my college level courses half of that class was about multiplying and subtracting dividing and adding fractions because so much of blueprints and dimensioning are about reading tape measures.

I think skimping on mathematics which is essential and so many fields is an incredible disservice to anybody.

I think we just need to change the way we teach it.
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Change the way we teach it, yes, but not the 'Common Core' way, I think I'd say.
 
Sagittarius83 said:
Math can be difficult but it is objective.

I wonder if these people who make sweeping generalizations were also bad at math.
If I am driving over a bridge I would rather have it designed by someone with a firm grasp of mathematics than one whose training was more grounded in social justice.

Calculus is as true in the American inner cities as it is in it’s most affluent suburbs. If some group has difficulty understanding or doing it then that group needs to be better taught. Here we don’t put up with mathematical ignorance. But they have to be expected to put it in the effort to learn how to do hard things and not coddled into believing that all their failure is due to prejudice. This is lazy and societally dangerous thinking. In fact it is reckless.

You don’t just shout racism and call it a day!
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I dont know who is doing this.
 
Sagittarius83 said:
Because there now exists an orthodoxy that all people are equally gifted intellectually across all demographics.
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Nope. You can put that strawman away.
 
Bodhisattva said:
Yes, public.

Middle to upper class education in the USA is top notch and would, if it could be measured, probably be in the Top Three... another insanely huge factor that can not be measured is student engagement and family support. Some places just care more. If education is valued in Finland and Singapore etc and kids engage more and care then they do better. I have taught in two top countries in elite schools, middle ones and a lower socio-economically impacted one. The elite school kids cared, families were involved. The middle ones we are seeing less and less engagement as kids keep screwing around on computers that we can not monitor playing games, etc. Factor in gangs, a massive population that does not really value education or speak English and there are some massive cracks in the foundation.

Out of 193 countries... you do the math. ;)

Great movie...
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What does ethnostates have to do with performance?
 
Sagittarius83 said:
@Mika-El
I appreciate this and understand the special learning needs of some people.

But the west faces an existential educational threat from the rest of the world.

China is not loaded down with the PC needs and honors special gifts from it’s gifted students.

So I say let’s focus on training special needs students but don’t let it interfere with raising gifted students to their full potential.

Better yet let’s stop making excuses for poor performance based on unmerited claims of racism.

It serves no one.
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China could use more racial justice as in not genociding minorities.
 
It sure is fun watching people freaking out about social justice. It tells you who the “white moderates” are.
 
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