Mateen Probably Wasn't Targeting Gays

[Tanngrisnir]

Remember, Orlando shooter shouted 'Allahu Akbar' before he fired

And many others.

A letter to the editor claiming "Reliable sources have confirmed that he called 9-1-1 and identified himself and shouted "Allahu Akbar" as he began shooting over one hundred people and killing at least 50 people" isn't exactly credible.

 

[WCH]

 

[Moot]

Remember, Orlando shooter shouted 'Allahu Akbar' before he fired

And many others.

From your link...

Reliable sources have confirmed that he called 9-1-1 and identified himself and shouted "Allahu Akbar" as he began shooting over one hundred people and killing at least 50 people.

In a press interview on TV , the police chief said the shooter called 911 while he was holed up in the restroom which was...after he had shot and wounded a 100 people. He didn't mention anything about the shooter yelling Allah Akbar to the dispatcher, but he did say that the shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS and talked about the Boston bombers.

Anyway, how could anyone hear him over the loud music, screaming and rapid gun fire? Sorry WCH, but I think I'd prefer to hear it from a witness that he shouted Allah Ackbar, instead of a letter to an editor from some Joe Schmo from Idunno.

 

[Hatuey]

I didn't say they should tell anyone they are armed.

Have you ever been to American club? Do you know what a pat down is?

Many people go to drinking establishments armed and don't tell a soul.

I can have a debate with someone without being an asshole.

Then you should try it more often. Your premise remains idiotic.

 

[americanwoman]

I explained why this wouldn't work. Designated drivers are people assigned by others to not drink. It's essentially letting people into your bar under the promise that they won't drink while a bar owner risks their liquor license if just one of those designated drivers decides to drink and pulls out their gun. Do you understand why your suggestion is idiotic to even newbie business owners?

Last time my designated driver brought his gun to the bar he ended up drinking and dropping the gun three times. He's learned to keep it in the car now.

I'm not really one for gun free zones but clubs and bars for sure. Like you said, if you've ever been to a club there's no way you would want anyone there armed.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

So gay Americans are worth less than Iraqi citizens?

Humans are humans are humans...and 100,000 humans killed are a far greater tragedy than 49 killed. Unless, of course, you decide to go with Stalin's maxim that "one person killed is a tragedy, one million killed is a statistic".

 

[Glen Contrarian]

Frankly, Saddam was a maniac. Not only was he perfectly willing to kill his own people en masse, he was steadily radicalizing his country. He'd always provided support for terrorist groups, but in the run up to the invasion things really started ramping up.

Look how many ex Mukhabaret guys are high ranking ISIS officials.

The "poor Saddam" shtick gets old fast.

'Scuse you, but there's not a shred of pity in my post for Saddam or his sons. There IS great pity - and shame for our country's actions - in the 100K innocent Iraqi men, women, and children who died thanks to our unwarranted (and frankly illegal) invasion of that nation.

And FYI, just because a nation's leader is a tyrant who commits crimes against humanity against its own people is NOT a reason or excuse to invade that nation - otherwise, we'd be invading China, Syria, and at least a quarter of the nations in Africa.

 

[Glen Contrarian]

The US declared war. That is how you fight wars. Ask the Japanese.

The Japanese attacked us and posed a very real threat to our nation. The Iraqis did not attack us, and posed zero threat to our nation.

But of course little things like that don't matter to you....

 

[Tigerace117]

'Scuse you, but there's not a shred of pity in my post for Saddam or his sons. There IS great pity - and shame for our country's actions - in the 100K innocent Iraqi men, women, and children who died thanks to our unwarranted (and frankly illegal) invasion of that nation.

And FYI, just because a nation's leader is a tyrant who commits crimes against humanity against its own people is NOT a reason or excuse to invade that nation - otherwise, we'd be invading China, Syria, and at least a quarter of the nations in Africa.

Maybe Saddam's military shouldn't have deliberately put the innocent civillians in harm's way by deliberately trying to draw the US military into urban combat, which is extremely rough on civillians.

Maybe Saddam shouldn't have been so eager for land grabs, seeing as it nearly bankrupted Iraq the first time around and poisoned relations with the rest of the world the second.

Maybe Saddam shouldn't have done everything in his power to make us think he was allied with AQ

 

[Roadvirus]

Maybe gun free zones should have metal-detectors or xray screens on all the doors, and a gun cloakroom to check in your weapon.

And a wannabe mass murderer would laugh at those just as they laugh at the "This is a Gun Free Zone" signs.

 

[Manc Skipper]

And a wannabe mass murderer would laugh at those just as they laugh at the "This is a Gun Free Zone" signs.

Your preferred option is "moar gunz"?

 

[WCH]

Have you ever been to American club? Do you know what a pat down is?



Then you should try it more often. Your premise remains idiotic.

You get patted down at clubs? What country do you live in?

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Maybe Saddam's military shouldn't have deliberately put the innocent civillians in harm's way by deliberately trying to draw the US military into urban combat, which is extremely rough on civillians.

Maybe Saddam shouldn't have been so eager for land grabs, seeing as it nearly bankrupted Iraq the first time around and poisoned relations with the rest of the world the second.

Maybe Saddam shouldn't have done everything in his power to make us think he was allied with AQ

Maybe we shouldn't have invaded Iraq because it wasn't a credible and immanent threat.

 

[Tigerace117]

Maybe we shouldn't have invaded Iraq because it wasn't a credible and immanent threat.

Maybe Saddam shouldn't have done pretty much everything in his power to make us consider him a threat.

 

[WCH]

From your link...



In a press interview on TV , the police chief said the shooter called 911 while he was holed up in the restroom which was...after he had shot and wounded a 100 people. He didn't mention anything about the shooter yelling Allah Akbar to the dispatcher, but he did say that the shooter pledged allegiance to ISIS and talked about the Boston bombers.

Anyway, how could anyone hear him over the loud music, screaming and rapid gun fire? Sorry WCH, but I think I'd prefer to hear it from a witness that he shouted Allah Ackbar, instead of a letter to an editor from some Joe Schmo from Idunno.

It matters not to me whether he did or not. [he has all the indicators of being an Islamic terrorist]

Do you not believe he did?

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Maybe Saddam shouldn't have done pretty much everything in his power to make us consider him a threat.

Yawn. He wasn't a credible or immanent threat. We went to war on a pretext and contrivances.

 

[WCH]

The Japanese attacked us and posed a very real threat to our nation. The Iraqis did not attack us, and posed zero threat to our nation.

But of course little things like that don't matter to you....

They supposedly tried to kill W's father but, other than that, they went against of the UN mandates.

They could have painted "We support the 9-11 attacks" on their butts and got attack quicker... I suppose.

 

[Tigerace117]

They supposedly tried to kill W's father but, other than that, they went against of the UN mandates.

They could have painted "We support the 9-11 attacks" on their butts and got attack quicker... I suppose.

You ever see that mural of Saddam smoking a cigar and watching the Twin Towers burn?

 

[Moot]

It matters not to me whether he did or not. [he has all the indicators of being an Islamic terrorist]

Do you not believe he did?

He's had all the indicators of a mentally ill, bitter, violent, homophobic, racist, sexist, bigot, gun nutter, too. I mean that guy had a little something for everyone to chew on. He embodied all of our worst instincts and fear.

 

[chromium]

I've said this a few times but since you made a thread seemingly solely on this theory of disney world

1) he did not attack disney world
2) if he was scoping it as a possible attack, he was last seen there around the time of "gay days"
3) disney is popular as a gay vacation hotspot
4) he had limited resources and picked a gay club out of dozens of non gay clubs in the city

 

[Mason66]

....49

Isn't it amazing none of the injured have died.

That says great things about the doctors in that trauma center.

 

[chromium]

Yeah, but he did that the same week Disney World was hosting their "Gay Days 2016". Hmmm. A gay club. Disney when they are honoring gay pride. It could be a coincidence, but I wouldn't be inclined to bet on it.

I personally believe this guy had some serious self hatred going on and it is possible he would rather die with his dad thinking he was an ISIS sympathizer than a gay man. I'm not ruling anything out.

yeah and what can drive someone to such self hatred other than the religious fundamentalism he was raised under? I am also certain that not everyone in ISIS is gay, so self hatred isn't the only path to mass murder.

Whether he was gay or not, the fundamentalism to me is the culprit

 

[chromium]

you left out sandy hook and the attempted attack on LA pride

and dozens of others including gay bars, but your bias is too obvious to be worth listing them all

 

[_Sal]

Isn't it amazing none of the injured have died.

That says great things about the doctors in that trauma center.

you hit that right on

I saw Anderson interview a doctor in the ER regarding the chaos that ensued

they were on alert and told the hospital had been targetted so they slammed x-ray machines against the doors and kept working knowing they too might die

they brought them in and surrounded them with medical personnel and triaged them as a team: will die regardless...give them comfort and assurance,
get to surgery immediately, can wait for a short period etc.

he said the problem with the ammunition used is it spins within the body so it is difficult to know where the actual damage is within the body cavity

horrendous

heroes

someone posted their runners on FB that they had worn to work that night...they said the amount of blood on them was horrific

they are on the hero team

many even victims themselves are on the hero team

unbelievable acts of compassion and self sacrifice

 

[Mr Person]

I don't think we need to spin this story away from anything other than what it is.

Radical Muslims hate gays, women, Americans, puppies, etc.

Anything contrary to their ideals of perfection is up for attack.

The only spin is in your post, but thank you for making clear that you will reject anything that doesn't fit your narrative without even reading it.