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Mateen Probably Wasn't Targeting Gays

Glen Contrarian said:
You'd have a good point except for this one thing: evangelical "Christians" are almost solidly a Republican voting bloc, whereas the rest are all over the political spectrum. And what religious group is it that GOP politicians court most vigorously? The evangelicals. They have to, if they're going to win the primary.

So...yeah, the reference does apply.
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What does that have to do with what he said?
 
Tanngrisnir said:
No, there is enough evidence to suggest that it wasn't simple ISLAM, as you put it, and it's been posted here several times already.

You don't know his motivation. No one does. To claim that you do is maintain a fantasy that blinds you to reality, where not everything is black or white.
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What evidence? You mean the 911 call he made PRAISING ISIS? Or the fact he was screaming 'allahu akbar' in the shootout with cops?

That evidence?
 
Howler63 said:
Really? What motivated him was ISLAM. Do you doubt that? Why? Ever hear of Ft. Hood? How about San Bernadino? 9/11? Charlie Hebdo? Paris 2016?

I know his motivation.

After all, it's not rocket science, is it?
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Islam was a piece of what motivated him. You want to make it black an white due to your zeal....it isn't....

you know nothing
 
Howler63 said:
What evidence? You mean the 911 call he made PRAISING ISIS? Or the fact he was screaming 'allahu akbar' in the shootout with cops?

That evidence?
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No. The growing evidence of his psychosis and personality disorder and his self-revulsion for possibly harboring homosexual feelings and the conflict that brought into his life.
 
Naah, Disneyland isn't the least bit influenced by gay people...

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And the fact that he had "Jack'd", a popular gay dating app, installed on his phone probably means nothing at all.

OccupiedGayPost0.jpg

Naah, he couldn't POSSIBLY be a severely conflicted, closeted self loathing Muslim gay man.

"Forget it Jake, it's Florida."

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Howler63 said:
And that evidence is where?
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Sigh. You haven't been paying attention. It's been posted here and elsewhere.

He had a history of violence.
He had a history of beating his wife. So badly her family had to come rescue her
His family says this whole thing was sparked off by seeing to gay men being affectionate in public.
It now turns out he was a patron of an establishment that caters exclusivley to gays and may have been for years
It now also turns out he had a profile at a gay dating site, and at least one gay hookup app on his cellphone.

This simply can't be ignored, and given that his 'allegiance' has been to terrorist organizations that are opposed to each other, the Allah bit seems like an excuse to cover up his self-loathing at possibly being gay, done so that even in death so his family or whoever might still think he was a Muslim and not a homosexual.
 
Checkerboard Strangler said:
Naah, Disneyland isn't the least bit influenced by gay people...

giphy.gif


And the fact that he had "Jack'd", a popular gay dating app, installed on his phone probably means nothing at all.

View attachment 67202796

Naah, he couldn't POSSIBLY be a severely conflicted, closeted self loathing Muslim gay man.

"Forget it Jake, it's Florida."

74.gif
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The one thing that is beyond dispute...is that he was a Muslim nut job who praised ISIS and ALLAH as he gunned down 50 people.
 
Tanngrisnir said:
Sigh. You haven't been paying attention. It's been posted here and elsewhere.

He had a history of violence.
He had a history of beating his wife. So badly her family had to come rescue her
His family says this whole thing was sparked off by seeing to gay men being affectionate in public.
It now turns out he was a patron of an establishment that caters exclusivley to gays and may have been for years
It now also turns out he had a profile at a gay dating site, and at least one gay hookup app on his cellphone.

This simply can't be ignored, and given that his 'allegiance' has been to terrorist organizations that are opposed to each other, the Allah bit seems like an excuse to cover up his self-loathing at possibly being gay, done so that even in death so his family or whoever might still think he was a Muslim and not a homosexual.
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1: Doesn't make him gay.
2: Doesn't make him gay.
3: Doesn't make him gay.
4: May have? Might have?
5: Doesn't make him gay.

So, again, where is all this evidence that he had some other reason than adherence to a murderous philosophy?
 
Howler63 said:
The one thing that is beyond dispute...is that he was a Muslim nut job who praised ISIS and ALLAH as he gunned down 50 people.
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Well of course...not like I was expecting him to praise Harvey Milk and The Village People.
The meaning of "closeted self loathing" is that they never ever admit that they are gay, even when they're QUEER AS A THREE DOLLAR BILL.
 
Howler63 said:
1: Doesn't make him gay.
2: Doesn't make him gay.
3: Doesn't make him gay.
4: May have? Might have?
5: Doesn't make him gay.

So, again, where is all this evidence that he had some other reason than adherence to a murderous philosophy?
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I never said it made him gay; I clearly indicted it could be the case and he had pathological conflicts due to it.

That you weren't even aware of those factors shows me you're not particularly interested in rational discourse; you're simply interested in pushing your own predetermined conclusions.

Sorry, I'm not interested in that, and Islam simply isn't a 'murderous philosophy'.

Good luck with your magical thinking.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Not as much as for the 100,000+ innocent Iraqi men, women, and children (almost all of whom were Muslim) who died as a direct result of our illegal and unwarranted invasion of Iraq.

Oh, wait, let me guess - you're one of those who think that was a good thing, huh?
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If civilians live in a combat zone that is the way it goes.
 
It's also possible he saw himself as being under cover, scouting the place out, getting known there. In order to get 49 kills, and an equal number of hits, he'd have to know the place very well, knowing who the heroes might be in such a scenario, and have a reasonable idea of escape paths so that he could herd his victims without making them feel trapped-that could inspire a mad rush. This idea does not preclude either the self-loathing homosexual nor the jihadist theory, but certainly familiarity with the location and its patrons made him more effective at carrying out his mission.
 
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Glen Contrarian said:
Never mind that it's been shown that his own father virulently hated gays. Mateen frequented that same place for years - years! - even as he was married!
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Years? I heard "weeks". And that could've been to scout his target. Criminals scout banks and such all the time in advance before robbing a place.
 
Roadvirus said:
Years? I heard "weeks". And that could've been to scout his target. Criminals scout banks and such all the time in advance before robbing a place.
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I watched the interview on ABC's Good Morning America of the bartender who said he'd seen Mateen going there for years. YEARS, guy.
 
coldjoint said:
If civilians live in a combat zone that is the way it goes.
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Ah. I see. It wasn't the fault of the innocent people inside the club for being in that club when the shooting started, but it somehow WAS the fault of the innocent Iraqi men, women, and children for being in Iraq when the shooting started?

*bangs head against wall*
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Never mind that it's been shown that his own father virulently hated gays. Mateen frequented that same place for years - years! - even as he was married!

In other words, he's no different from the several Republican politicians over the years who publicly hated gays and who strongly opposed gay rights in any form whatsoever...but who were later found out to be gay themselves. They, like Mateen, were messed up in the mind, and couldn't accept themselves for what they were. But Mateen couldn't handle it anymore and went on a shooting rampage, using his religion as an excuse.
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Wow! Sen Larry Craig is comparable to Mateen?????????????? What gay Republicans murder gays?
Have you lost all sense?
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Ah. I see. It wasn't the fault of the innocent people inside the club for being in that club when the shooting started, but it somehow WAS the fault of the innocent Iraqi men, women, and children for being in Iraq when the shooting started?

*bangs head against wall*
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The US declared war. That is how you fight wars. Ask the Japanese.
 
TheGoverness said:
What does that have to do with what he said?
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Like I said, he'd have a point except for the fact that the evangelicals to which the article referred are an almost-exclusively conservative voting bloc. If the conservatives were as freedom-loving as he seems to want to believe, then it stands to reason that the most religious among the conservatives should be a heck of a lot more open-minded than they are...

...but they obviously aren't. That was the point.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Not as much as for the 100,000+ innocent Iraqi men, women, and children (almost all of whom were Muslim) who died as a direct result of our illegal and unwarranted invasion of Iraq.

Oh, wait, let me guess - you're one of those who think that was a good thing, huh?
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Frankly, Saddam was a maniac. Not only was he perfectly willing to kill his own people en masse, he was steadily radicalizing his country. He'd always provided support for terrorist groups, but in the run up to the invasion things really started ramping up.

Look how many ex Mukhabaret guys are high ranking ISIS officials.

The "poor Saddam" shtick gets old fast.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
Not as much as for the 100,000+ innocent Iraqi men, women, and children (almost all of whom were Muslim) who died as a direct result of our illegal and unwarranted invasion of Iraq.

Oh, wait, let me guess - you're one of those who think that was a good thing, huh?
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So gay Americans are worth less than Iraqi citizens?
 
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