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Mateen Probably Wasn't Targeting Gays

LowDown

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Mateen wasn't targeting gays. He just wanted to kill infidels.

He scouted out Disney World as a possible target, specifically the Downtown Disney area, which isn't specifically gay. He mentioned nothing anti gay in his messages to the 911 operator in which he claimed allegiance to ISIS and the caliphate. He said nothing about punishing gays.

No mention of carrying out an Islamic punishment for homosexuality, no mention of gay or lesbian Americans, no mention of his victims at all. Of course, it’s no secret that Islam condemns homosexuality, and that ISIS has executed gay men by throwing them from rooftops in Mosul. So it’s possible that Mateen decided to attack Pulse, a well-known gay nightclub, to carry out a punishment he believed Islam demands for homosexuality.

But in light of the going media narrative, that Mateen specifically targeted a gay nightclub because of his hatred of homosexuality, it seems a rather significant omission on his part.

It may be that he targeted the gay nightclub because it was convenient. It was a place he frequented and knew.

What If Mateen Wasn't Targeting Gay People At All?
 

truthatallcost

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I don't think we need to spin this story away from anything other than what it is.

Radical Muslims hate gays, women, Americans, puppies, etc.

Anything contrary to their ideals of perfection is up for attack.
 

Glen Contrarian

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Mateen wasn't targeting gays. He just wanted to kill infidels.

He scouted out Disney World as a possible target, specifically the Downtown Disney area, which isn't specifically gay. He mentioned nothing anti gay in his messages to the 911 operator in which he claimed allegiance to ISIS and the caliphate. He said nothing about punishing gays.



It may be that he targeted the gay nightclub because it was convenient. It was a place he frequented and knew.

What If Mateen Wasn't Targeting Gay People At All?

Never mind that it's been shown that his own father virulently hated gays. Mateen frequented that same place for years - years! - even as he was married!

In other words, he's no different from the several Republican politicians over the years who publicly hated gays and who strongly opposed gay rights in any form whatsoever...but who were later found out to be gay themselves. They, like Mateen, were messed up in the mind, and couldn't accept themselves for what they were. But Mateen couldn't handle it anymore and went on a shooting rampage, using his religion as an excuse.

Oh, and btw, in America, Muslims are more likely than "Christian" evangelicals to support gay marriage. But don't let little things like "facts" dissuade you from finding an excuse to hate Muslims, now.
 

WCH

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Mateen wasn't targeting gays. He just wanted to kill infidels.

He scouted out Disney World as a possible target, specifically the Downtown Disney area, which isn't specifically gay. He mentioned nothing anti gay in his messages to the 911 operator in which he claimed allegiance to ISIS and the caliphate. He said nothing about punishing gays.



It may be that he targeted the gay nightclub because it was convenient. It was a place he frequented and knew.

What If Mateen Wasn't Targeting Gay People At All?

And most important of all...a gun-free zone.
 

Texmex

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Never mind that it's been shown that his own father virulently hated gays. Mateen frequented that same place for years - years! - even as he was married!

In other words, he's no different from the several Republican politicians over the years who publicly hated gays and who strongly opposed gay rights in any form whatsoever...but who were later found out to be gay themselves. They, like Mateen, were messed up in the mind, and couldn't accept themselves for what they were. But Mateen couldn't handle it anymore and went on a shooting rampage, using his religion as an excuse.

Oh, and btw, in America, Muslims are more likely than "Christian" evangelicals to support gay marriage. But don't let little things like "facts" dissuade you from finding an excuse to hate Muslims, now.

Only LowDown can come up with this worthless ****.
 

coldjoint

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Never mind that it's been shown that his own father virulently hated gays. Mateen frequented that same place for years - years! - even as he was married!

In other words, he's no different from the several Republican politicians over the years who publicly hated gays and who strongly opposed gay rights in any form whatsoever...but who were later found out to be gay themselves. They, like Mateen, were messed up in the mind, and couldn't accept themselves for what they were. But Mateen couldn't handle it anymore and went on a shooting rampage, using his religion as an excuse.

Oh, and btw, in America, Muslims are more likely than "Christian" evangelicals to support gay marriage. But don't let little things like "facts" dissuade you from finding an excuse to hate Muslims, now.


That is a lot easier than finding a reason to like them. Face reality.
 

Captain Adverse

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Never mind that it's been shown that his own father virulently hated gays. Mateen frequented that same place for years - years! - even as he was married!

I don't think we need to spin this story away from anything other than what it is.

Only LowDown can come up with this worthless ****.

Come on guys.

It is not unreasonable to examine ALL the possible motivations.

We've already had suggestions that he was suffering from mental illness and cloaking himself in Islamic fervor was a false front; that he is gay and self-hate drove him to do it in the name of Allah; or that it was part of the terrorist agenda and he is the most recent example.

Why not allow this "convenience" theory some latitude in the interest of discussion?

Personally I think it was a combination of emotional conflict between his same-sex interests and his religious belief system which led to his intentional targeting of this club; but other options ARE possible.
 
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LowDown

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Never mind that it's been shown that his own father virulently hated gays. Mateen frequented that same place for years - years! - even as he was married!

In other words, he's no different from the several Republican politicians over the years who publicly hated gays and who strongly opposed gay rights in any form whatsoever...but who were later found out to be gay themselves. They, like Mateen, were messed up in the mind, and couldn't accept themselves for what they were. But Mateen couldn't handle it anymore and went on a shooting rampage, using his religion as an excuse.

Oh, and btw, in America, Muslims are more likely than "Christian" evangelicals to support gay marriage. But don't let little things like "facts" dissuade you from finding an excuse to hate Muslims, now.

Some of the things people have said about him make no sense. Why would he get angry at seeing gay men kissing?

In one sense he's a textbook case of homophobia -- the man with gay leanings who is repulsed by those feelings and strikes out violently. But this is Freudian psychoanalytic theory, and you can justify anything with any combination of facts in that "discipline". It's an un-falsifiable system, and, ultimately, proven to be useless, unworkable, and to have no predictive power where human behavior is concerned. So I'm skeptical. I think it's reasonable to be doubtful of the whole homophobia narrative especially since the usual suspects are so strongly wedded to it. Is it possible that Omar Mateen told us what his motivation was? Why should we doubt that?
 

Glen Contrarian

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Some of the things people have said about him make no sense. Why would he get angry at seeing gay men kissing?

In one sense he's a textbook case of homophobia -- the man with gay leanings who is repulsed by those feelings and strikes out violently. But this is Freudian psychoanalytic theory, and you can justify anything with any combination of facts in that "discipline". It's an un-falsifiable system, and, ultimately, proven to be useless, unworkable, and to have no predictive power where human behavior is concerned. So I'm skeptical. I think it's reasonable to be doubtful of the whole homophobia narrative especially since the usual suspects are so strongly wedded to it. Is it possible that Omar Mateen told us what his motivation was? Why should we doubt that?

I see it as more likely that he had a raging case of self-hatred between his homophobia and his apparent homosexuality...and the fact that he had easy access to firearms was just the spark that lit the fuel of his epic self-mindf**k.
 

truthatallcost

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Oh, and btw, in America, Muslims are more likely than "Christian" evangelicals to support gay marriage. But don't let little things like "facts" dissuade you from finding an excuse to hate Muslims, now.

Christians are subdivided into 8 categories in your list.

Muslims are lumped into 1 category.

Only 26.8% of American Christians identify as evangelical, leaving 73.2%, 7 out of 10 who are not evangelical.

Evangelicals are known for being the strictest Christians when it comes to morality. Comparing all Muslims to the strictest of Christians isn't really an accurate comparison.

And I can see why you cherry picked evangelicals. From your link.

Christians who oppose gay marriage: 48%.
Muslims who oppose gay marriage: 52%.


Wouldn't you say that the stat I posted is a better representation?
 

Glen Contrarian

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Christians are subdivided into 8 categories in your list.

Muslims are lumped into 1 category.

Only 26.8% of American Christians identify as evangelical, leaving 73.2%, 7 out of 10 who are not evangelical.

Evangelicals are known for being the strictest Christians when it comes to morality. Comparing all Muslims to the strictest of Christians isn't really an accurate comparison.

And I can see why you cherry picked evangelicals. From your link.

Christians who oppose gay marriage: 48%.
Muslims who oppose gay marriage: 52%.


Wouldn't you say that the stat I posted is a better representation?

You'd have a good point except for this one thing: evangelical "Christians" are almost solidly a Republican voting bloc, whereas the rest are all over the political spectrum. And what religious group is it that GOP politicians court most vigorously? The evangelicals. They have to, if they're going to win the primary.

So...yeah, the reference does apply.
 

Howler63

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Another Muslim nut-job following the fundamental edicts of the "religion of peace" and killed innocent 50 people. Who gives a **** if he hated gays or not?
 

Glen Contrarian

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How about the 50 dead people? Any pity for them?

Not as much as for the 100,000+ innocent Iraqi men, women, and children (almost all of whom were Muslim) who died as a direct result of our illegal and unwarranted invasion of Iraq.

Oh, wait, let me guess - you're one of those who think that was a good thing, huh?
 

_Sal

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Come on guys.

It is not unreasonable to examine ALL the possible motivations.

We've already had suggestions that he was suffering from mental illness and cloaking himself in Islamic fervor was a false front; that he is gay and self-hate drove him to do it in the name of Allah; or that it was part of the terrorist agenda and he is the most recent example.

Why not allow this "convenience" theory some latitude in the interest of discussion?

Personally I think it was a combination of emotional conflict between his same-sex interests and his religious belief system which led to his intentional targeting of this club; but other options ARE possible.

I think this explanation seems most likely from a psychological perspective

Had he not been experiencing extreme conflict between his leanings and his religion this may have had a different outcome.
 

Exquisitor

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How about the 50 dead people? Any pity for them?

Kursk, Ambassador Stevens and they are having a monkey pile in the Yellowstone wolves because they go good with the 9-11 victims would you like to go join them?

I put on Hells Bells by AC/DC.
 

_Sal

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Another Muslim nut-job following the fundamental edicts of the "religion of peace" and killed innocent 50 people. Who gives a **** if he hated gays or not?

because understanding what motivates him matters

even those with mental issues have reasons, find the reason, and solve the riddle

it's not rocket science
 

Neomalthusian

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What if the most obvious motive of all time wasn't really the motive?

Hm, yeah! What if?!
 

Howler63

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because understanding what motivates him matters

even those with mental issues have reasons, find the reason, and solve the riddle

it's not rocket science


Really? What motivated him was ISLAM. Do you doubt that? Why? Ever hear of Ft. Hood? How about San Bernadino? 9/11? Charlie Hebdo? Paris 2016?

I know his motivation.

After all, it's not rocket science, is it?
 

Tanngrisnir

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Really? What motivated him was ISLAM. Do you doubt that? Why? Ever hear of Ft. Hood? How about San Bernadino? 9/11? Charlie Hebdo? Paris 2016?

I know his motivation.

After all, it's not rocket science, is it?

No, there is enough evidence to suggest that it wasn't simple ISLAM, as you put it, and it's been posted here several times already.

You don't know his motivation. No one does. To claim that you do is maintain a fantasy that blinds you to reality, where not everything is black or white.
 

Hawkeye10

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Mateen wasn't targeting gays. He just wanted to kill infidels.

He scouted out Disney World as a possible target, specifically the Downtown Disney area, which isn't specifically gay. He mentioned nothing anti gay in his messages to the 911 operator in which he claimed allegiance to ISIS and the caliphate. He said nothing about punishing gays.



It may be that he targeted the gay nightclub because it was convenient. It was a place he frequented and knew.

What If Mateen Wasn't Targeting Gay People At All?

We dont know yet but this sure seems to be the way the facts are going dont it.....

EDIT: I remember after Bataclan seeing an expert claim that he was sure that Daesh is targeting youth on purpose, cant remember what the presumed reasoning is for doing it.
 
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truthatallcost

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You'd have a good point except for this one thing: evangelical "Christians" are almost solidly a Republican voting bloc, whereas the rest are all over the political spectrum. And what religious group is it that GOP politicians court most vigorously? The evangelicals. They have to, if they're going to win the primary.

So...yeah, the reference does apply.

So what is your point here? You're jumping on to another subject now.

I wasn't debating which political party evangelicals love, I was showing you why your words were deceptive, as more American muslims oppose gay marriage than American Christians do.
-----

But since you you want to play party politics, OK. Which political party do American muslims overwhelmingly support? Democrats.

And a majority of American muslims oppose same sex marriage. What should take from those facts?
 
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