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Matador Victor Barrio killed by bull in Spain, score one for the bulls!

Renae

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[h=1]
A matador has died after being gored by a bull in Spain - the first bullfighter to die in the ring in Spain this century.[/h]Victor Barrio, 29, a professional bullfighter, was killed when the bull's horn pierced his chest.
The fight, in the eastern town of Teruel, was being broadcast live on TV.
Also on Saturday, a 28-year-old man died after being gored by a bull during a bull run through the village of Pedreguer, near Valencia.
[h=1]The last matador to die in a bullfight in Spain was Jose Cubero, or Yiyo, in 1985.
[/h]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36756723

Serious note, I don't like seeing people die, I really do have nothing but sympathy for his family.

That being said.

Good for the bulls. I've been to 2 real no **** bullfights, in Spain. They are interesting, but ultimately the bulls die and it's not really pretty. However it's been going on for quite a while, and the bulls from time to time get to wreck havoc and well, I cheer for them. Weird I know, but as long as they want to have bull fighting, fine, but don't cry if the bull wins.
 

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Honestly, I don't really see the appeal of bullfighting. I watched a video of a bullfight once, and it sickened me to my stomach.
 

c0wardlyli0n

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I find bull fighting disgusting and while I don't celebrate this man's death, I don't feel any sadness either.
 

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You remember the movie "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" Remember the "shave and a haircut" scene? Well right now, my ears are ringing, my eyes are bulging out and my cotton tail is about to explode, but I swear to God I'm not going to say, "TWO BITS."
 

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Isn't this basically the dictionary definition of irony?
 

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[h=1][/h]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36756723

Serious note, I don't like seeing people die, I really do have nothing but sympathy for his family.

That being said.

Good for the bulls. I've been to 2 real no **** bullfights, in Spain. They are interesting, but ultimately the bulls die and it's not really pretty. However it's been going on for quite a while, and the bulls from time to time get to wreck havoc and well, I cheer for them. Weird I know, but as long as they want to have bull fighting, fine, but don't cry if the bull wins.

Rooting for the matador is like rooting for the Yankees. They're supposed to win.
 

Renae

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Honestly, I don't really see the appeal of bullfighting. I watched a video of a bullfight once, and it sickened me to my stomach.

Trust me, I get that. I'd prefer it go away, however as long as they are going to do it, I'mma rooting for the bulls.
 

tres borrachos

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Trust me, I get that. I'd prefer it go away, however as long as they are going to do it, I'mma rooting for the bulls.

Me as well, Renae.

I went to Spain twice with a group trying to stop the horrors of bullfighting. It's a disgusting, cruel, horrific act.

I don't applaud when people die, but given the fact that I detest matadors and anyone involved with this cruel "sport", I have no sympathy for this man or his family. I applaud the bull.
 

radcen

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I've never been to a bullfight, but as I understand it the bull is severely handicapped before the "fight" even starts. I've never been a fan of rigged contests. I see no sport in them at all.
 

radcen

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Me as well, Renae.

I went to Spain twice with a group trying to stop the horrors of bullfighting. It's a disgusting, cruel, horrific act.

I don't applaud when people die, but given the fact that I detest matadors and anyone involved with this cruel "sport", I have no sympathy for this man or his family. I applaud the bull.
It's not fair to lump his family in with him and his profession. You can make the argument that his wife had a choice, but his kids certainly did not.
 

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[h=1][/h]http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36756723

Serious note, I don't like seeing people die, I really do have nothing but sympathy for his family.

That being said.

Good for the bulls. I've been to 2 real no **** bullfights, in Spain. They are interesting, but ultimately the bulls die and it's not really pretty. However it's been going on for quite a while, and the bulls from time to time get to wreck havoc and well, I cheer for them. Weird I know, but as long as they want to have bull fighting, fine, but don't cry if the bull wins.




I've gone on at length before about why I support bullfighting as a cultural icon and an educational spectacle of life and death in an overly sanitized civilized world.


Having said that, the risk is part of the whole package and goes along with being a participant.


Having said THAT, I salute the courage of the fallen matador. Even though the odds are highly in his favor, it still takes courage to stand in front of a couple thousand pounds of charging horn-armed bull with nothing but a cloak and sword, and proclaim he died with honor.


The lesson of the Corrida is, after all, that the Hour of the Wolf comes for us all, in the end... and that there are worse ways to go than on your feet fighting for your life.
 

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I've gone on at length before about why I support bullfighting as a cultural icon and an educational spectacle of life and death in an overly sanitized civilized world.


Having said that, the risk is part of the whole package and goes along with being a participant.


Having said THAT, I salute the courage of the fallen matador. Even though the odds are highly in his favor, it still takes courage to stand in front of a couple thousand pounds of charging horn-armed bull with nothing but a cloak and sword, and proclaim he died with honor.


The lesson of the Corrida is, after all, that the Hour of the Wolf comes for us all, in the end... and that there are worse ways to go than on your feet fighting for your life.

I've never given the morality of bullfighting much though but I'm finding I tend to agree with you. Reality for the bull is that if it's not the ring he's going to be whacked on the head with a sledgehammer, have his throat slit and be turned into steaks. Given a choice between that and having a shot at the bastard who wants to take me out, if I were a bull I know what choice I'd make.

I also have a lot of sympathy for the overly sanitized world argument. I grew up in a family of hunters and hunted much of my youth. We ate everything we killed. Having killed animals and watched them die up close gives you a perspective on your meal that others simply don't have. You appreciate that something died to fill your belly. I cringe whenever I see someone throw meat away. And not for the wasted dollars.
 

radcen

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I've never given the morality of bullfighting much though but I'm finding I tend to agree with you. Reality for the bull is that if it's not the ring he's going to be whacked on the head with a sledgehammer, have his throat slit and be turned into steaks. Given a choice between that and having a shot at the bastard who wants to take me out, if I were a bull I know what choice I'd make.

I also have a lot of sympathy for the overly sanitized world argument. I grew up in a family of hunters and hunted much of my youth. We ate everything we killed. Having killed animals and watched them die up close gives you a perspective on your meal that others simply don't have. You appreciate that something died to fill your belly. I cringe whenever I see someone throw meat away. And not for the wasted dollars.
To me, though, there's a difference between cleanly killing something for a substantial purpose and disabling and "toying" with it before you kill it for sport.
 

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You know this is like "A contestant on Naked and Afraid died of dehydration" . . . sort of an inevitable element that doesn't really shock or surprise.

Note - he's the first this century (lol - it's 2016) to DIE of goring. Not that others haven't been GORED before . . . and I think the bulls score more during The Running of the Bulls.

If you want to turn killing animals into sport you accept the possibility.
 

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Just saw a bullfight in Madrid this spring.

Apparently, it must have some cultural significance, especially for the Spanish hillbilly types that seemed to attend, but it's clearly a 'sport' that will die out soon. Apparently, it's already been banned in half of Spain, and the arena I attended was 3/4 empty.

I did see a matador get hit and knocked down though- that was kind of exciting.

The impressive part were the armored horses, which were calm as a bull attacked them.

https://vimeo.com/174112193
 

Goshin

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To me, though, there's a difference between cleanly killing something for a substantial purpose and disabling and "toying" with it before you kill it for sport.

Just FYI, even the most careful of hunters occasionally fails to make a clean instant kill... but on to my main point:


To briefly excerpt from a previous argument I made on behalf of bullfighting...

Everyone reading this will die some day. Some will go quickly... some will suffer for days, weeks or months before the release of death. An unpleasant truth most of us don't like to contemplate, but a fact of life.


The bulls suffer in the Corrida, but typically only for a few minutes each. Personally, I would gladly choose a few minutes of suffering with a chance of taking my killer with me, dying on my feet in battle, rather than spending weeks or months suffering in a hospital bed due to some incurable cellular dysfunction.


Every bovine born is ultimately destined for the meat packing plant. The Toros Bravos at least get a small chance to get some payback. :)
 

radcen

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Just FYI, even the most careful of hunters occasionally fails to make a clean instant kill... but on to my main point:


To briefly excerpt from a previous argument I made on behalf of bullfighting...

Everyone reading this will die some day. Some will go quickly... some will suffer for days, weeks or months before the release of death. An unpleasant truth most of us don't like to contemplate, but a fact of life.


The bulls suffer in the Corrida, but typically only for a few minutes each. Personally, I would gladly choose a few minutes of suffering with a chance of taking my killer with me, dying on my feet in battle, rather than spending weeks or months suffering in a hospital bed due to some incurable cellular dysfunction.


Every bovine born is ultimately destined for the meat packing plant. The Toros Bravos at least get a small chance to get some payback. :)
No need for an "FYI". I knew that, but I also know that debate is becoming ridiculous anymore that people should feel the need to include 17 bullet points of possible exceptions and nuances when they make a general point, lest someone come along and "correct" them... especially when even if all 17 nuances and exceptions are added together they still don't alter or invalidate the original general point.
 

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No need for an "FYI". I knew that, but I also know that debate is becoming ridiculous anymore that people should feel the need to include 17 bullet points of possible exceptions and nuances when they make a general point, lest someone come along and "correct" them... especially when even if all 17 nuances and exceptions are added together they still don't alter or invalidate the original general point.



No offense intended. It's not that I assumed you ignorant of a fact known to all hunters, but some folks are not familiar with the realities of hunting.
 

radcen

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No offense intended. It's not that I assumed you ignorant of a fact known to all hunters, but some folks are not familiar with the realities of hunting.
Fair enough. I knew who I was responding to, and know that you're not normally like that, but many people are and it just caught me at the wrong moment. My apologies.
 

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I'm sorry for his family and I take no pleasure in his death. But I also don't feel a single ounce of sorrow for him either.
 

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I've gone on at length before about why I support bullfighting as a cultural icon and an educational spectacle of life and death in an overly sanitized civilized world.


Having said that, the risk is part of the whole package and goes along with being a participant.


Having said THAT, I salute the courage of the fallen matador. Even though the odds are highly in his favor, it still takes courage to stand in front of a couple thousand pounds of charging horn-armed bull with nothing but a cloak and sword, and proclaim he died with honor.


The lesson of the Corrida is, after all, that the Hour of the Wolf comes for us all, in the end... and that there are worse ways to go than on your feet fighting for your life.

I get that and the multiple metaphors of the Corrida are powerful, but I'd argue that it's deeply anachronistic. There's a difference between not overly sanitising modern life and conducting ritualised slaughter. I don't doubt the courage of the toreros for one second. I've seen corridas up close and both in the tercio de varas where the bull is fresh and will charge at anything, and later in the tercio de muerte when torero and bull face off within a pace or two of each other, it's terrifying. A bull of 600kg against a man of 70kg is never a foregone conclusion, as this death proves.

I think my point is that civilised attitudes towards the profligate and arbitrary use of animals for entertainment or pageant are changing, and I think that's to be welcomed. There are plenty of other activities where humans (predominantly men) can test their bravery, skill, and nerve without also demonstrating their callousness and cruelty. I think that ethically those two weaknesses of character detract greatly from the qualities they are attempting to display.

There are even forms of bullfighting where the result for the bull is not always a prolonged and painful death. In Portugal, the forcados style of fighting is certainly a major test of agility, bravery and technique. Bulls that fight well are often allowed to live and are kept for breeding. The symbolism and metaphors are the same, the collateral damage somewhat less.



I am sorry for the death of Victor Barrio, human lives are not directly comparable with those of a bull, but every torero knows that s/he is staring death in the face; that's what they are challenging themselves with. Remove the threat and you remove the very reason for the spectacle.
 
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I'm sorry for his family and I take no pleasure in his death. But I also don't feel a single ounce of sorrow for him either.



I don't know why you would. For one thing, he's a stranger in a far away country... that tends to take the emotional edge off in most cases.


For another he willingly participated in an activity with a known risk to life and limb... indeed, that risk being part of the spectacle and draw of it all.



He died doing something he considered worthwhile despite the risk... a good way to go, IMHO, and an honorable death in the tradition of his culture.
 
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