• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mass shooting are uncommon, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

This discussion reminds me of the way some activists make up statistics about the prevalence of rape, trying to inflate the numbers of rapes. As if it isn't a serious crime if the number of instances isn't huge enough.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

Artevelde said:
It depends on what the intent was. Is somebody going out on purpose to shoot as many random people as possible? Or not?

Do you believe that a man who shoots his wife and two children in an act of despair constitutes a mass shooting?
Click to expand...

Technically that doesn't add up to four, but let us say it does and go on. yes that should be a mass shooting. 4 people were shot.

Artevelde said:
Do you believe a terrorist shooting numerous soldiers in a terrorist attack constitutes a mass shooting?
Click to expand...

Yes, that would be a mass shooting.
Artevelde said:
It is simply stupid to turn this into a numbers game. Next you'll be saying the Battle of Gettysburg was a mass shooting.
Click to expand...

Wow, that was one hell of a logic leap off a cliff. gettysburg was a battlefield. We are not including was casualties.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

Artevelde said:
This discussion reminds me of the way some activists make up statistics about the prevalence of rape, trying to inflate the numbers of rapes. As if it isn't a serious crime if the number of instances isn't huge enough.
Click to expand...

You are trying real damned hard to pretend that every day someone runs out and shoots four people is a some sort of mirage.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
Technically that doesn't add up to four, but let us say it does and go on. yes that should be a mass shooting. 4 people were shot.



Yes, that would be a mass shooting.
Click to expand...

In that case mass shootings are daily occurrences in every country in the world and mass shooting is just another term for any shooting in which multiple people are shot. It's a completely meaningless and empty term then.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
You are trying real damned hard to pretend that every day someone runs out and shoots four people is a some sort of mirage.
Click to expand...

You are claiming that virtually every gun incident is a mass shooting.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
Wow, that was one hell of a logic leap off a cliff. gettysburg was a battlefield. We are not including was casualties.
Click to expand...

Why not? Lots of people were shot there.

I guess you would also include the Watts riots and the Rodney King riots as mass shootings?
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

Artevelde said:
In that case mass shootings are daily occurrences in every country in the world and mass shooting is just another term for any shooting in which multiple people are shot. It's a completely meaningless and empty term then.
Click to expand...


No, it is not completely meaningless, it is disturbing.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

Artevelde said:
Why not? Lots of people were shot there.

I guess you would also include the Watts riots and the Rodney King riots as mass shootings?
Click to expand...

Potentially certain incidents in those events might be considered mass shootings.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
Not even close, and that is a complete lie.
Click to expand...

Too bad you can't face up to the logic of what you are arguing.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
No, it is not completely meaningless, it is disturbing.
Click to expand...

People sometimes harm other people. What a disturbing discovery!
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

It is quite evident there is a political agenda at work to suppress gun ownership. One way to gain support for this agenda is to magnify every incident where guns are used in an act of violence. With a daily dose of such reports on the nightly news or in print, it gives the perception that things in society are getting more dangerous.
It has the power to sway a person's mind that if gun control was enacted, we would all be safer.

BUT, according to a recent PEW study, the gun homicide rate shrank by 49 percent between 1993 and 2010. And mass shootings amount to 1 percent of all shootings.

Study: Gun violence plummeted, but people think it increased | The Daily Caller
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

Artevelde said:
So basically you feel it is wrong to approach this rationally?
Click to expand...

Tererun's hatred of gun ownership is not the product of a rational analysis but rather is based on his faith based belief that gun owners tend to be a group hostile to the interests and issues he finds most important
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

vesper said:
It is quite evident there is a political agenda at work to suppress gun ownership. One way to gain support for this agenda is to magnify every incident where guns are used in an act of violence. With a daily dose of such reports on the nightly news or in print, it gives the perception that things in society are getting more dangerous.
It has the power to sway a person's mind that if gun control was enacted, we would all be safer.

BUT, according to a recent PEW study, the gun homicide rate shrank by 49 percent between 1993 and 2010. And mass shootings amount to 1 percent of all shootings.

Study: Gun violence plummeted, but people think it increased | The Daily Caller
Click to expand...

How can you say that when i clearly just showed the tip of the iceberg with my OP? Clearly there is more going on than you care to admit since once a day someone in the US goes out and shoots four people. yeah they may not have all died, but they were shot which is a problem. that is a hell of a lot more than is making national news and to claim that every incident is being blown up when I have shown clear evidence of events we never knew about is a load of cram. there is the evidence that this year we have had 247 incidents where a person went out and shot at least four people in a spree. That is just this year. That is a problem. i did not even think that was going on, and i have a negative view of these things according to most people. I am a cynic too, and this is an everyday occurrence which i did not know was an everyday occurrence.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
This is not a discussion of that. That is for another topic. this is about how defining mass shootings with too small of a brush skews numbers down. I do not think it is terribly unreasonable to call a shooting spree where 4 people were only wounded a mass shooting. I actually thought that these sorts of shootings were uncommon and i figured we would hear about woundings. This was outside of my point of view and I was looking for stuff like this. It seems to me that there is a definite effort to lower numbers and make such events seem uncommon merely because the shooter didn't get a high enough score. It is clear there are many more people trying to play the game. You may wish to argue that our response to incidents keeps things from being fatal and therefor this is what you need to expect from having guns at this level of legality, but those numbers should be presented to the public and not hidden by playing pretend that a mass shooting is not a mass shooting just because the shooter sucked at it.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a fair point to me.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
How can you say that when i clearly just showed the tip of the iceberg with my OP? Clearly there is more going on than you care to admit since once a day someone in the US goes out and shoots four people. yeah they may not have all died, but they were shot which is a problem. that is a hell of a lot more than is making national news and to claim that every incident is being blown up when I have shown clear evidence of events we never knew about is a load of cram. there is the evidence that this year we have had 247 incidents where a person went out and shot at least four people in a spree. That is just this year. That is a problem. i did not even think that was going on, and i have a negative view of these things according to most people. I am a cynic too, and this is an everyday occurrence which i did not know was an everyday occurrence.
Click to expand...

All you have demonstrated is your complete inability to think logically about this issue. You are very much like some of the pro-gun nuts who want to arm everybody, everywhere all the time in your complete lack of nuance and rational thinking.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
How can you say that when i clearly just showed the tip of the iceberg with my OP? Clearly there is more going on than you care to admit since once a day someone in the US goes out and shoots four people. yeah they may not have all died, but they were shot which is a problem. that is a hell of a lot more than is making national news and to claim that every incident is being blown up when I have shown clear evidence of events we never knew about is a load of cram. there is the evidence that this year we have had 247 incidents where a person went out and shot at least four people in a spree. That is just this year. That is a problem. i did not even think that was going on, and i have a negative view of these things according to most people. I am a cynic too, and this is an everyday occurrence which i did not know was an everyday occurrence.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that you post this with a gun-control agenda, but I don't think you're asking unreasonable questions in this thread. We could get into semantics about whether 4 people being shot by the same person at one incident would constitute a mass shooting (I'm not sure I agree the term "mass" would apply), all the same, we should look for the causes.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
We always here the pro-gun side saying mass shootings are rare. They do not happen every day, right? Perhaps that is because of how we define mass shootings. The way mass shootings are defined you have to kill 4 or more people. But maybe that definition leaves out what some might consider are other mass shootings. What if a person opens fire and just wounds 4 people? Do we count it even though they were not able to kill people and only wounded a bunch? Well, obviously certain people *NRA and gunnuts* do not want to talk about that sort of thing. But how many more of those events could there be? It is not like that would put the number of shootings up to at least one per day on average. Or is it?

How Many Mass Shootings In The US? - YouTube

For those who do not want to read TYT is reporting on a stat that reddit came up with where there have been 247 mass shootings where at least 4 people have been wounded this year alone. There have been 228 days this year. That means that we average over 1 mass shooting a day which doesn't include shootings where less than 4 people have been wounded. But remember that the people who have a bias against negative info on guns coming out have failed to tell you how many of these mass shooting type of incidents have happened, and that they wish for you to think they are rare.

For further reference this video refers to this article in Huffpo:

We've Had So Many Mass Shootings In The U.S., We've Had To Redefine The Term

and in case you say i am just some gun grabber listening to a made up number by huffpo and TYT and you want a compiled list with news sources and reporting on every single one of those shootings so you can see for yourself here is the source with references to the actual reportings of these incidents linked:

2013massshootings - GunsAreCool
Click to expand...

How many of those are gang/drug related vs. incidents where someone walks into a theater and starts shooting?
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

I don't have any problem with defining 'Mass Shooting' differently than 'Mass Murder'. I agree with those that want to differentiate between mass shootings that are the result of a nutbar with bad aim and mass shootings where two criminal elements are going to war with each other.

I think one characteristic would be that there is either no relationship between the shooter and the victims or that the relationship be one where the shooter is revenging (in his mind) some wrong. (a disgruntled employee,customer, etc)
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

Artevelde said:
All you have demonstrated is your complete inability to think logically about this issue. You are very much like some of the pro-gun nuts who want to arm everybody, everywhere all the time in your complete lack of nuance and rational thinking.
Click to expand...

You have no point and are just responding with rhetoric and cliche at this point. That may make you popular with the thoughtless gun nuts, but your lack of explanation and support for your point shows me you are full of crap.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

FederalRepublic said:
I have no doubt that you post this with a gun-control agenda, but I don't think you're asking unreasonable questions in this thread. We could get into semantics about whether 4 people being shot by the same person at one incident would constitute a mass shooting (I'm not sure I agree the term "mass" would apply), all the same, we should look for the causes.
Click to expand...

I admit freely that there are people in society I feel should be restricted from owning guns. there are my personal prejudices I toss on my own like dumb ass rednecks. It is unreasonable, prejudiced and certainly would not pass. However, I think which I think are no brainers. The first is violent criminals I would be open to some form of legal restatement of gun rights after something like a decade of being crime free and showing they learned something, but people who have made a mistake of bad judgment that has caused them to be a convicted felon should have their right's to own a gun removed. The other group is the people who are noticeably insane. I am not talking about testing everyone which would have it's own prejudices and problems with bias. however if you have ****ed up so much they have had to declare you mentally defective for some reason a firearm is not something you should be trusted with. other than that i can pretty much see the freedom to enjoy your gun sports and recreation as long as it is done safely. To tell the truth i am the sort of person who for a responsible member of society who wants to would allow the fun of destroying things with a flamethrower, grenade or grenade launcher, RPG, tank, jet fighter or anything else you could pay for the time to master. I am of course talking about target shooting and safe use, but I could see the military making a bit of profit of letting someone who lives a legal life blow up some **** on a target range for kicks. Just like I enjoy recreational drugs i can see where people would enjoy that.It may or may not be my thing, but if it yours and you have the money and the willingness to think of safety to others first i am totally cool with it.
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

Ikari said:
How many of those are gang/drug related vs. incidents where someone walks into a theater and starts shooting?
Click to expand...

Does it really matter when you are trying to come up with an honest way to reduce their effect?
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
For those who do not want to read TYT is reporting on a stat that reddit came up with
Click to expand...

lol, was 4chan unavailable for comment?
 
Re: Mass shooting are uncommin, right? 247 mass shootings this year alone

tererun said:
However, I think which I think are no brainers. The first is violent criminals I would be open to some form of legal restatement of gun rights after something like a decade of being crime free and showing they learned something, but people who have made a mistake of bad judgment that has caused them to be a convicted felon should have their right's to own a gun removed. The other group is the people who are noticeably insane. .
Click to expand...
I thought by in large felons and the legally insane are prohibited from owning firearms. Are you claiming they are not and should be, or that we aren't enforcing that? I'm having trouble following your call to action.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom