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Mass shooters should be killed slowly

DebateChallenge

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I know that our law forbids killing people slowly, that executions have to be as quick and painless as possible, but I do think there should be an exception, mass shooters. Anybody who shoots up a school, mall, movie theatre, etc, killing innocent people, should be punished with a slow and painful death, as slow and as painful as possible despite what it says forbidding cruel and unusual punishment. As I said, there should be an exception.
 

OrphanSlug

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KevinKohler

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To serve what purpose?
 

Mongidig

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I know that our law forbids killing people slowly, that executions have to be as quick and painless as possible, but I do think there should be an exception, mass shooters. Anybody who shoots up a school, mall, movie theatre, etc, killing innocent people, should be punished with a slow and painful death, as slow and as painful as possible despite what it says forbidding cruel and unusual punishment. As I said, there should be an exception.

We are much too nice to criminals. Unfortunately liberals will fight to the death for mass murderers, pedophiles, and rapist to be treated gently and with kindness.
 

Phys251

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We are much too nice to criminals. Unfortunately liberals will fight to the death for mass murderers, pedophiles, and rapist to be treated gently and with kindness.

Such as the one that is occupying the White House?
 

Lursa

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To serve what purpose?

The validation and propagation of more hate, more allowing emotions to control justice and good judgement, vengeance....

IMO it's an immature, reactive response to individuals who acted the same way. So...we'd end up no better than they are.
 

btthegreat

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We are much too nice to criminals. Unfortunately liberals will fight to the death for mass murderers, pedophiles, and rapist to be treated gently and with kindness.


Here's a list of the liberals that caused this whole problem with that poison pill language in 1987, that opened to the door to the trojan horse amendments in 1789. They should never have been trusted. Tear them APART!!


Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth. In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
George Washington—President and deputy from Virginia


Delaware

George Read
Gunning Bedford, Jr.
John Dickinson
Richard Bassett
Jacob Broom
Maryland

James McHenry
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer
Daniel Carroll
Virginia

John Blair
James Madison
North Carolina

William Blount
Richard Dobbs Spaight
Hugh Williamson
South Carolina

John Rutledge
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
Charles Pinckney
Pierce Butler
Georgia

William Few
Abraham Baldwin

New Hampshire

John Langdon
Nicholas Gilman
Massachusetts

Nathaniel Gorham
Rufus King
Connecticut

William Samuel Johnson
Roger Sherman
New York

Alexander Hamilton
New Jersey

William Livingston
David Brearley
William Paterson
Jonathan Dayton
Pennsylvania

Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Mifflin
Robert Morris
George Clymer
Thomas FitzSimons
Jared Ingersoll
James Wilson
Gouverneur Morris
 
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Crosscheck

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I know that our law forbids killing people slowly, that executions have to be as quick and painless as possible, but I do think there should be an exception, mass shooters. Anybody who shoots up a school, mall, movie theatre, etc, killing innocent people, should be punished with a slow and painful death, as slow and as painful as possible despite what it says forbidding cruel and unusual punishment. As I said, there should be an exception.

Write to your congressman.
 

Mongidig

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Here's a list of the liberals that caused this whole problem. Tear them APART!!


Done in convention by the unanimous consent of the states present the seventeenth day of September in the year of our Lord one thousand seven hundred and eighty seven and of the independence of the United States of America the twelfth. In witness whereof We have hereunto subscribed our Names,
George Washington—President and deputy from Virginia


Delaware

George Read
Gunning Bedford, Jr.
John Dickinson
Richard Bassett
Jacob Broom
Maryland

James McHenry
Daniel of St. Thomas Jenifer
Daniel Carroll
Virginia

John Blair
James Madison
North Carolina

William Blount
Richard Dobbs Spaight
Hugh Williamson
South Carolina

John Rutledge
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney
Charles Pinckney
Pierce Butler
Georgia

William Few
Abraham Baldwin

New Hampshire

John Langdon
Nicholas Gilman
Massachusetts

Nathaniel Gorham
Rufus King
Connecticut

William Samuel Johnson
Roger Sherman
New York

Alexander Hamilton
New Jersey

William Livingston
David Brearley
William Paterson
Jonathan Dayton
Pennsylvania

Benjamin Franklin
Thomas Mifflin
Robert Morris
George Clymer
Thomas FitzSimons
Jared Ingersoll
James Wilson
Gouverneur Morris

Nothing like being stuck in the past to keep you from moving forward into the future.
 

joko104

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I oppose any cruel treatment of prisoners - ever. Any violence, rape or abuse of prisoners is a crime and should be treated as such.

My opinion is simple. Conduct a truly fair trial giving the accused every due process right. If found guilty upon the evidence by a jury, 7 days later at sunrise the person is hung publicly in the city center, town square or in front of the courthouse. The doomed prison gets a last meal as s/he reasonably requests, can be visited by family and friends, and has paper and pen for writing out any last words - and to ask for a reprieve. A minister or priest with him/her if requested and any willing to be there.

Family members get front row seats for any who want to view the hanging. The body is then turned over to family of the executed prisoner. If no one claims it, it is put in a pauper's grave.

^ That is the civilized way to treat a murderer. Full due process. No abuse. Human rights protected to the very end - which should come quickly with final justice for the victim(s), their family and friends.
 

OlNate

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I know that our law forbids killing people slowly, that executions have to be as quick and painless as possible, but I do think there should be an exception, mass shooters. Anybody who shoots up a school, mall, movie theatre, etc, killing innocent people, should be punished with a slow and painful death, as slow and as painful as possible despite what it says forbidding cruel and unusual punishment. As I said, there should be an exception.

lol...the fact that we still have crime in the world speaks to the fact that deterrents don't work, so the only reason I can fathom for this is so people can get their jollies.

Civilized decent people don't torture people to death.
 

OlNate

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I oppose any cruel treatment of prisoners - ever. Any violence, rape or abuse of prisoners is a crime and should be treated as such.

My opinion is simple. Conduct a truly fair trial giving the accused every due process right. If found guilty upon the evidence by a jury, 7 days later at sunrise the person is hung publicly in the city center, town square or in front of the courthouse. The doomed prison gets a last meal as s/he reasonably requests, can be visited by family and friends, and has paper and pen for writing out any last words - and to ask for a reprieve. A minister or priest with him/her if requested and any willing to be there.

Family members get front row seats for any who want to view the hanging. The body is then turned over to family of the executed prisoner. If no one claims it, it is put in a pauper's grave.

^ That is the civilized way to treat a murderer. Full due process. No abuse. Human rights protected to the very end - which should come quickly with final justice for the victim(s), their family and friends.


Gave you a like, despite being heavily conflicted about the death penalty. This is a very reasonable position for someone who favors the death penalty to have.
 

Lursa

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lol...the fact that we still have crime in the world speaks to the fact that deterrents don't work, so the only reason I can fathom for this is so people can get their jollies.

Civilized decent people don't torture people to death.

IMO, this sort of 'lashing out' is an early indication of feelings of ineffectiveness and no power...leading to anger...over things that are outside an individual's control. Offense/confusion at rejection. Claims of wanting 'permission' or justification for hitting others that touch or make sexual comments. Outrage at killings, then when given the laws and ethics around the issue...never confronting or acknowledging the info that conflicts with their pre-conceived beliefs. It's not the maturity level I'd expect in college age males but it does seem to be an age where many start acting on their feelings of resentment, inadequacy, lack of control.

It's typical of adolescence to be impatient and impulsive, expecting life to go a certain way and then have the lack of emotional control to deal with those feelings appropriately, but it seems alot of the males that commit acts of violence against random people become locked into that frame of mind and dont move beyond. Like I've mentioned before, we need to figure out how our society is creating more and more such individuals.
 

Jay59

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Nothing like being stuck in the past to keep you from moving forward into the future.
Nothing like forgetting your past to lose your way.
 

OlNate

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IMO, this sort of 'lashing out' is an early indication of feelings of ineffectiveness and no power...leading to anger...over things that are outside an individual's control. Offense/confusion at rejection. Claims of wanting 'permission' or justification for hitting others that touch or make sexual comments. Outrage at killings, then when given the laws and ethics around the issue...never confronting or acknowledging the info that conflicts with their pre-conceived beliefs. It's not the maturity level I'd expect in college age males but it does seem to be an age where many start acting on their feelings of resentment, inadequacy, lack of control.

It's typical of adolescence to be impatient and impulsive, expecting life to go a certain way and then have the lack of emotional control to deal with those feelings appropriately, but it seems alot of the males that commit acts of violence against random people become locked into that frame of mind and dont move beyond. Like I've mentioned before, we need to figure out how our society is creating more and more such individuals.

I know, grief and fear cause us to do weird things. I know it's not appropriate to smack someone out of hysteria anymore, but that doesn't mean it doesn't still need to happen sometimes. :)
 

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I know that our law forbids killing people slowly, that executions have to be as quick and painless as possible, but I do think there should be an exception, mass shooters. Anybody who shoots up a school, mall, movie theatre, etc, killing innocent people, should be punished with a slow and painful death, as slow and as painful as possible despite what it says forbidding cruel and unusual punishment. As I said, there should be an exception.

Webp.net-resizeimage (8).jpg
 

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Gave you a like, despite being heavily conflicted about the death penalty. This is a very reasonable position for someone who favors the death penalty to have.

Thank you. In my opinion, life without parole is both cruel and unusual punishment and exposed other to danger (people in prison, both prisoners and guards). Solitary confinement absolutely is torture, but without it a murderer endangers everyone - and one reason why murder, rape, and assault is so common in prisons.

I was in jail once a long time ago, only 3 days - held for an investigation, never actually charged with anything and released. The police even complimented me, said they all WANT To do what I did but can't and since the guy was going to technically live they chalked it up to defense of a child being violently assaulted (I nearly beat a man to death who was assaulting a child in my presence - again long ago). I don't have so much as a parking ticket on my record - despite having a quite long one in terms of being detained, investigated etc - again a long time ago.

Those 3 days in jail were grueling. So bored out of my mind I could hardly stand it. Time passed by incredibly slow. I tore up little pieces of paper to try to make any kind of game out of - anything to pass the time. No possibility of parole is far too cruel. I understand the view that the government shouldn't be killing people, but there is no way to humanely punish a mass murderer or any safe way to imprison them that either doesn't endanger others or is torturously cruel solitary. I also think the survivors, family, friends, children etc have a right to a final, certain closure. I don't think life without parole does that - plus life without parole doesn't really mean never being paroled.
 
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Lursa

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I know, grief and fear cause us to do weird things. I know it's not appropriate to smack someone out of hysteria anymore, but that doesn't mean it doesn't still need to happen sometimes. :)

I hadnt heard that...is that true? I dont care if it's 'appropriate,' I guess I'd just like to know if it works or not.

Interesting angle you took there!
 

OlNate

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Thank you. In my opinion, life without parole is both cruel and unusual punishment and exposed other to danger (people in prison, both prisoners and guards). Solitary confinement absolutely is torture, but without it a murderer endangers everyone - and one reason why murder, rape, and assault is so common in prisons.

I was in jail once a long time ago, only 3 days - held for an investigation, never actually charged with anything and released. The police even complimented me, said they all WANT To do what I did but can't and since the guy was going to technically live they chalked it up to defense of a child being violently assaulted (I nearly beat a man to death who was assaulting a child in my presence - again long ago). I don't have so much as a parking ticket on my record - despite having a quite long one in terms of being detained, investigated etc - again a long time ago.

Those 3 days were grueling. So bored out of my mind I could hardly stand it. Time passed by incredibly slow. I tore up little pieces of paper to try to make any kind of game out of - anything to pass the time. No possibility of parole is far too cruel. I understand the view that the government shouldn't be killing people, but there is no way to humanely punish a mass murderer or any safe way to imprison them that either doesn't endanger others or is torturously cruel solitary.


I mean, the main issue I have with the death penalty is that it puts the punitive goals of prison ahead of the rehabilitative ones, and I think that's one of the biggest failings of the American prison system, in my opinion...I think you guys are missing out big time with that, given how much you spend on imprisoning such a large portion of the population.

But I respect the thought process behind what you're saying, if that's all there is to it. I guess I would just counter with maybe face your own imminent demise, and then let me know if you'd want that rushed, or if you'd want a few more days to be bored, ripping up paper. :)
 

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If one reads books from the 1800s or prior on social behavior, the list of how a person should act civilly was very, very long - how to be civilized and genteel. Certainly between men and women, but also all of society and every setting. On the counter point there was such a thing as fighting worlds - outrageous vicious insults or gross uncivilized behavior.

Modern society has become extraordinarily rude, obscene, and crude. Many, if not most, do not hesitation to start screaming obscenities for any annoyance or just not getting their way, along with unlimited insults and threats. Talk to anyone who works a phone for customer service.

People are far more emotional creatures than logical ones. The reason for laws is to try to force us to contain our emotions and actions. The tolerance and commonality of grotesque verbal abuse continues to worsen. It allowed people to work themselves so much into a rage - or the other person to just become too enraged (and maybe frightened) that overtime or at the moment the person cracks and lashes out.

Society rewarding people claiming special status in self pity parties of declared victimhood is another real problem. It amazes me when people feel they need to tell me all the ways they think they were and are a victim, even their own shortcomings. For example, if someone tells me he/she is "bipolar," my response often is "thank you for the warning" and then I avoid that person as much as possible. It it like there is a competition of who can more claim victimhood: "yeah what happened you is bad, but what happened to me is much worse..." as if the one who most can claim victimhood should get a prize.

Current social values really messes up people. It created the illusion that excuses of victimhood and even the most grotesque verbal abuse is without any consequence.

All that said, there will always be sadistic, violent, sociopathic and psychotic people. In terms of violence this more often are men. Among the social and personal safeguards should be an individual and collective ability to defend against and stop a mass shooter. Instead, we are such a me! me! me! society combined with laws that intensely encourage apathy about everyone else but yourself - and for yourself to rely upon government - that mass shooters are not opposed and stopped quickly.
 

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I mean, the main issue I have with the death penalty is that it puts the punitive goals of prison ahead of the rehabilitative ones, and I think that's one of the biggest failings of the American prison system, in my opinion...I think you guys are missing out big time with that, given how much you spend on imprisoning such a large portion of the population.

But I respect the thought process behind what you're saying, if that's all there is to it. I guess I would just counter with maybe face your own imminent demise, and then let me know if you'd want that rushed, or if you'd want a few more days to be bored, ripping up paper. :)

I do not believe everyone can be rehabilitated. To the contrary, I believe few people can change once they are and adult or even older teen - even if they want to. That nearly everyone will revert to who they are. Many believe a pedophile can not be cured. The most that can be hoped for is the person restrains himself.

The fact is across all of known human history, there are sadistic, sociopathic and psychotic mass murderers and otherwise psychologically disturbed people. There is a violent, sadistic side with nearly everyone in my opinion - a side that wants to hurt enemies, wants enemies to suffer, etc.

For property crimes and other non-violent crimes I believe a person MIGHT be able to be educated that they reason not to do those crimes is they will end up in jail. They will never think it is wrong, just too risky. The same for those who have it within themselves to hurt and/or kill people where it had nothing to do with self defense or of anyone else. Rather, they did it for pleasure and/or power over others - like all rapists.

I do not think prisons should be where the convicted are abused, turned into slave labor or any of that. I do think they should be required to work if possible, and paid a small salary for it. Education should be available, particularly learning a job skill. But I do not believe a mass murderer could EVER be deemed rehabilitated and safe.

There was just a case last month of a murderer sentenced to life without parole was released after serving over 2 decades, nearly 3. Within a week of his release, he had murdered another woman - and EXACTLY how he had done so before. The question is not if anyone can be put on a better path in life (rehabilitated) as the answer is yes. The question is what about murderers who can't - or there is no way to ever really know the person has been?

The slogan is "don't take the law into your own hands." Allow society to administer "justice" because society will be very careful to make certain the person is guilty. In my opinion, execution (swift) is justice for the victim and moreso the survivors (family, children, spouse etc). Once it proven thru due process the person did commit pre-meditated murder(s), then the priority is for justice for the victim and survivors harmed. Focusing on what is best for the murder is the wrong priority.

The other people in prison have a full legal right not to be murdered too - and prison is where people with life sentences without parole are sent. Every year, those murders will murder dozens of people in prison and hundreds or thousands will be terrorized, extorted, assaulted and/or raped. Where is the justice of putting a psychotic murderer in with them? Doesn't that turn the sentence of the petty meth dealer into a death sentence? If a psychotic mass murderer is given a life sentence, where are you going to put him that does not endanger others except for the torture of solitary confinement?

We won't be changing each other's mind. Few people ever change their position on the death penalty. However, it seems we agree that prisons should be safe and humane. If not, they make people even more violent and can turn non-violent men into violent men - because for years they are around violent men and the prison runs on violence.
 
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I disagree with the death penalty because it goes against the sanctity of life. But I think physical restraints such as the long-term use of leg cuffs and handcuffs against unrepentant murderous criminals are justified. This would further confine them and teach them by reverse reasoning how reprehensible their crimes were.
 

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I know that our law forbids killing people slowly, that executions have to be as quick and painless as possible, but I do think there should be an exception, mass shooters. Anybody who shoots up a school, mall, movie theatre, etc, killing innocent people, should be punished with a slow and painful death, as slow and as painful as possible despite what it says forbidding cruel and unusual punishment. As I said, there should be an exception.

What about traitors? Same treatment, or different?
 

Lursa

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I know that our law forbids killing people slowly, that executions have to be as quick and painless as possible, but I do think there should be an exception, mass shooters. Anybody who shoots up a school, mall, movie theatre, etc, killing innocent people, should be punished with a slow and painful death, as slow and as painful as possible despite what it says forbidding cruel and unusual punishment. As I said, there should be an exception.

Are you planning to return to this thread and address the responses to your OP?

The validation and propagation of more hate, more allowing emotions to control justice and good judgement, vengeance....

IMO it's an immature, reactive response to individuals who acted the same way. So...we'd end up no better than they are.

You also have a similar thread here, that you have not responded further to:
Getting Limbs Cut Off As Punishment

Have these discussions been productive for you? Were they informative?
 
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