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Manning's letter to Obama requesting a pardon.

Cecil900

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FULL TEXT: Bradley Manning’s Letter To President Obama Requesting Pardon

The decisions that I made in 2010 were made out of a concern for my country and the world that we live in. Since the tragic events of 9/11, our country has been at war. We’ve been at war with an enemy that chooses not to meet us on any traditional battlefield, and due to this fact we’ve had to alter our methods of combating the risks posed to us and our way of life.
I initially agreed with these methods and chose to volunteer to help defend my country. It was not until I was in Iraq and reading secret military reports on a daily basis that I started to question the morality of what we were doing. It was at this time I realized that (in) our efforts to meet the risk posed to us by the enemy, we have forgotten our humanity. We consciously elected to devalue human life both in Iraq and Afghanistan. When we engaged those that we perceived were the enemy, we sometimes killed innocent civilians. Whenever we killed innocent civilians, instead of accepting responsibility for our conduct, we elected to hide behind the veil of national security and classified information in order to avoid any public accountability.

In our zeal to kill the enemy, we internally debated the definition of torture. We held individuals at Guantanamo for years without due process. We inexplicably turned a blind eye to torture and executions by the Iraqi government. And we stomached countless other acts in the name of our war on terror.

Patriotism is often the cry extolled when morally questionable acts are advocated by those in power. When these cries of patriotism drown out any logically based dissension, it is usually the American soldier that is given the order to carry out some ill-conceived mission.

Our nation has had similar dark moments for the virtues of democracy — the Trail of Tears, the Dred Scott decision, McCarthyism, and the Japanese-American internment camps — to mention a few. I am confident that many of the actions since 9/11 will one day be viewed in a similar light.

As the late Howard Zinn once said, “There is not a flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.”

I understand that my actions violated the law; I regret if my actions hurt anyone or harmed the United States. It was never my intent to hurt anyone. I only wanted to help people. When I chose to disclose classified information, I did so out of a love for my country and a sense of duty to others.

If you deny my request for a pardon, I will serve my time knowing that sometimes you have to pay a heavy price to live in a free society. I will gladly pay that price if it means we could have a country that is truly conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all women and men are created equal.
Obama won't grant a pardon, but damn this letter hits home. I would absolutely love to see it happen though, and I believe it would go a long ways toward shifting the public opinion on matters such as this.

This man is an American hero, deserves to walk free, and it astounds me that people want to turn a blind eye to the crimes of their government and pretend as though nothing is wrong, and then to go as far to condemn someone such as Bradley(Chelsea) Manning for wanting to open their eyes.
 
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specklebang

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FULL TEXT: Bradley Manning’s Letter To President Obama Requesting Pardon



Obama won't grant a pardon, but damn this letter hits home. I would absolutely love to see it happen though, and I believe it would go a long ways toward shifting the public opinion on matters such as this.

This man is an American hero, deserves to walk free, and it astounds me that people want to turn a blind eye to the crimes of their government and pretend as though nothing is wrong, and then to go as far to condemn someone such as Bradley Manning for wanting to open their eyes.
I guess we'll find out at the end of his term. That's when President's issue their weirder pardons. I think Obama is kind of a prick but who knows, if I were President maybe I'd be one too.

Sad, really.
 

Lord of Planar

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LOL...

He includes the liberal fantasy of naming real discrimination, McCarthyism. McCarthy was only after government traitors, and Project Venona vindicated McCarthy when it was declassified in the 90's.
 

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FULL TEXT: Bradley Manning’s Letter To President Obama Requesting Pardon



Obama won't grant a pardon, but damn this letter hits home. I would absolutely love to see it happen though, and I believe it would go a long ways toward shifting the public opinion on matters such as this.

This man is an American hero, deserves to walk free, and it astounds me that people want to turn a blind eye to the crimes of their government and pretend as though nothing is wrong, and then to go as far to condemn someone such as Bradley(Chelsea) Manning for wanting to open their eyes.
Tell ya what. You post your bank statements and tax returns, your children's report cards, your divorce records and your property deeds right here for us. Then when you've demonstrated that level of understanding about what this little twit has taken upon his tiny shoulders to do, get back to us, OK?
 

Cecil900

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Tell ya what. You post your bank statements and tax returns, your children's report cards, your divorce records and your property deeds right here for us. Then when you've demonstrated that level of understanding about what this little twit has taken upon his tiny shoulders to do, get back to us, OK?
Are you comparing the personal information of a US citizen with the right to know if your country is breaking international laws and committing war crimes?

Lawl...
 

Oftencold

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Are you comparing the personal information of a US citizen with the right to know if your country is breaking international laws and committing war crimes?

Lawl...
No, I'm saying that your personal information is a whole lot less important than classified military documents and that if you think that it was a good idea for this traitorous criminal to release such documents that you ought to have the courage of your convictions and release your personal confidential documents for the world to see.

I'm curious to see if you can think this through and act in accordance with reason and ethics.
 

Cecil900

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No, I'm saying that your personal information is a whole lot less important than classified military documents and that if you think that it was a good idea for this traitorous criminal to release such documents that you ought to have the courage of your convictions and release your personal confidential documents for the world to see.

I'm curious to see if you can think this through and act in accordance with reason and ethics.
So in other words, you are comparing the two.
 

Captain Adverse

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FULL TEXT: Bradley Manning’s Letter To President Obama Requesting Pardon

Obama won't grant a pardon, but damn this letter hits home. I would absolutely love to see it happen though, and I believe it would go a long ways toward shifting the public opinion on matters such as this.

This man is an American hero, deserves to walk free, and it astounds me that people want to turn a blind eye to the crimes of their government and pretend as though nothing is wrong, and then to go as far to condemn someone such as Bradley(Chelsea) Manning for wanting to open their eyes.
Every soldier convicted by a court martial has the right to petition the Commander-in-Chief for a pardon. Just as every citizen convicted of a crime in a Federal Court has the right to petition the President for a pardon.

They are seldom granted.
 

Oftencold

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So in other words, you are comparing the two.
Obviously.

I see no reason that you shouldn't produce the requested documents forthwith, as a show of your good faith, and support of Manning's actions.

Surely you're not implying that your personal documents are more important or more deserving of protection than classified military documents are you?
 

Cecil900

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Obviously.

I see no reason that you shouldn't produce the requested documents forthwith, as a show of your good faith, and support of Manning's actions.

Surely you're not implying that your personal documents are more important or more deserving of protection than classified military documents are you?
No, I'm pointing out that is the most ridiculous false equivalency I have probably ever heard.
 

Lord of Planar

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Every soldier convicted by a court martial has the right to petition the Commander-in-Chief for a pardon. Just as every citizen convicted of a crime in a Federal Court has the right to petition the President for a pardon.

They are seldom granted.
Probably true, but if he wants a positive response, he should at least get the facts strait.
 

Oftencold

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No, I'm pointing out that is the most ridiculous false equivalency I have probably ever heard.
That's due to a failure to properly consider what yu seem to advocate.


Lets try another approach, shall we?

If P.F.C manning is qualified to determine which classified government documents should be released, then why isn't a boy scout with a first aid badge sufficient to decide without supervision what medical treatments you require?


Again though, I fail to see why you consider your divorce records to be more deserving of confidentiality than classified government documents.
 

Cecil900

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That's due to a failure to properly consider what yu seem to advocate.


Lets try another approach, shall we?

If P.F.C manning is qualified to determine which classified government documents should be released, then why isn't a boy scout with a first aid badge sufficient to decide without supervision what medical treatments you require?


Again though, I fail to see why you consider your divorce records to be more deserving of confidentiality than classified government documents.
Because a government committing war crimes is not the same thing as if I get divorced?

You are completely inept if you think they are one in the same. The people have the right to know if the government that is supposed to be of people, by the people, and for the people is committing horrible atrocities.

A private citizen =/= United States Federal Government.

Its pretty simple really.
 

Lord of Planar

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Because a government committing war crimes is not the same thing as if I get divorced?
What war crimes?

I have never seen evidence that would take it to that level. Even my disagreement with what the Obama administration does.
 

Oftencold

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Because a government committing war crimes is not the same thing as if I get divorced?

You are completely inept if you think they are one in the same. The people have the right to know if the government that is supposed to be of people, by the people, and for the people is committing horrible atrocities.

A private citizen =/= United States Federal Government.

Its pretty simple really.
It isn't up to a P.F.C. to decide in his official capacity if the country has committed war crimes, Nope, isn't. But if you think it is, let us decide the vastly less important issue of whether you got of too easily in your divorce. Maybe there's something in those documents we'd find important of relevant. Who are you to deny us?

Of give us your children's school records. Those are even less important, after all. Surely you think that anything so petty as his children's documents are more important than classified military documents?

Any arrest records you might have could be released as well.

Provide an example of proper behavior and attitude.
 

csense

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FULL TEXT: Bradley Manning’s Letter To President Obama Requesting Pardon



Obama won't grant a pardon, but damn this letter hits home. I would absolutely love to see it happen though, and I believe it would go a long ways toward shifting the public opinion on matters such as this.

This man is an American hero, deserves to walk free, and it astounds me that people want to turn a blind eye to the crimes of their government and pretend as though nothing is wrong, and then to go as far to condemn someone such as Bradley(Chelsea) Manning for wanting to open their eyes.
A hero welcomes the consequences of his actions. You have an odd understanding of the concept, then again, you're a socialist so you're probably not very bright.

What Manning should have done was used the chain of command, but the reason he didn't is because he had no principled motive other than to satisfy his own needs. Any idiot can submit a letter such as his, after the fact, in an attempt to mitigate their criminal behavior. Rather than whining about the consequences of his own actions, he should get down on his hands and knees and thank God he wasn't hauled before a firing squad.
 

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A hero welcomes the consequences of his actions. You have an odd understanding of the concept, then again, you're a socialist so you're probably not very bright.

What Manning should have done was used the chain of command, but the reason he didn't is because he no principled motive other than to satisfy his own needs. Any idiot can submit a letter such as his, after the fact, in an attempt to mitigate their criminal behavior. Rather than whining about the consequences of his own actions, he should get down on his hands and knees and thank God he wasn't hauled before a firing squad.
Yep.

It's a simple thing to report problems in the chain of command to the IG.
 

Andalublue

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They are seldom granted.
Unless you are a former politician , high-ranking civil servant, military or family.

Richard Nixon
Scooter Libby
William Calley
G. Gordon Liddy
Robert McFarlane
Casper Weinberger
Fife Symington
Susan McDougall
Roger Clinton
 

Spriggs05

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What war crimes?

I have never seen evidence that would take it to that level. Even my disagreement with what the Obama administration does.
Here you can find one video that he leaked and the names of the other files:

Bradley Manning Uncovered U.S. Torture, Abuse, Soldiers Laughing As They Killed Innocent Civilians

Manning released this graphic video of a U.S. Apache helicopter attack on a group of people gathered in Baghdad. Two were employees of the Reuters news agency. A member of the helicopter crew refers to the "dead bastards" he killed, and the crew lights up a passing van that stopped to help victims of the first round of gunfire
Reuters unsuccessfully requested a copy of the video under the Freedom of Information Act, but only Manning revealed it to the world. An Army investigation into the attack, released only after Manning's leak was published, concluded that the helicopter crew had followed the rules of engagement
 

Lord of Planar

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Unless you are a former politician , high-ranking civil servant, military or family.

Richard Nixon
Scooter Libby
William Calley
G. Gordon Liddy
Robert McFarlane
Casper Weinberger
Fife Symington
Susan McDougall
Roger Clinton
Really?

409 Ford

566 Carter

406 Reagan

77 Bush (41)

459 Clinton

200 Bush (43)

16 Obomba, so far. How many in '17?
 

RabidAlpaca

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Obviously.

I see no reason that you shouldn't produce the requested documents forthwith, as a show of your good faith, and support of Manning's actions.

Surely you're not implying that your personal documents are more important or more deserving of protection than classified military documents are you?
The government is a creation by the people. WE are the government. Therefore WE have a right to know about really ****ed up things going on in our name. YOUR personal documents on the other hand belong to you alone and do not belong to the public.

This was a rather ridiculous and lazy analogy, to be honest.
 

Spriggs05

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Nothing new. I saw the video. can you trust the context of any of it?
Well it did come from government files so guess we can't trust it... :lol:
But seriously, it does seem to be what the description suggests. I assume its real, looks real enough to me, since the army investigated it and found that they broke the rules of engagement.
 

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Well it did come from government files so guess we can't trust it... :lol:
But seriously, it does seem to be what the description suggests. I assume its real, looks real enough to me, since the army investigated it and found that they broke the rules of engagement.
The video is real. Reporters were embedded with the enemy. They weren'tt civilians. We attacked the enemy, Didn't know reporters were with them. One of the reporters were directly attacked when he aimed his long telephoto lens at the helicopter, which at that distance, looks like a rocket launcher.
 

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A hero welcomes the consequences of his actions. You have an odd understanding of the concept, then again, you're a socialist so you're probably not very bright.

What Manning should have done was used the chain of command, but the reason he didn't is because he had no principled motive other than to satisfy his own needs. Any idiot can submit a letter such as his, after the fact, in an attempt to mitigate their criminal behavior. Rather than whining about the consequences of his own actions, he should get down on his hands and knees and thank God he wasn't hauled before a firing squad.
If you had even read the letter, you would've noticed he said:

I will gladly pay that price if it means we could have a country that is truly conceived in liberty and dedicated to the proposition that all women and men are created equal.
So by your own definition, that a hero welcomes the consequences of his actions, he must be a hero.

Learning to read what you're responding to instead of firing off insults about socialists (which has no context on this debate) is a key life skill.

And by the way, Army chain of commands don't give a flying rat's ass if you disagree with them or not.

Yep.

It's a simple thing to report problems in the chain of command to the IG.
I've reported things to the IG before, and I've gotten very cold responses. If things are in the unit doctrine, even if they grossly violate Army doctrine, they pretty much don't care. The decisions to keep these things secret were made consciously by higher officers, and even IG respects that as the word of god.
 
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