• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every persons position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Mandatory military service?

Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?


  • Total voters
    88

tacomancer

Christian Capitalist Social Democrat
Supporting Member
DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 8, 2010
Messages
44,171
Reaction score
24,343
Location
Akron
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Progressive
Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?
 

Laila

DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 20, 2008
Messages
10,100
Reaction score
2,990
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Liberal
No way. I see no benefit to it.
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think young people not in college could use a little dose of military discipline even if for only 2 years. Does not have to be military either, peace corps would do.
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,661
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
absolutley not. The last thing I would have wanted would be some d00d who didn't want to be there laying down cover fire for me....

Do you actually think that a volunteer army wants to be in the heat of battle? The best they can say is, "Well, I asked for it." And, in fact, most of them didn't ask for it. IMO volunteer forces enlist for very practical reasons. The very least of which is to lay down cover fire for you.

There's a fairness about a draft. And a certain benefit that our armed forces perform for us when they turn boys into men, combat aside.
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
65,604
Reaction score
33,483
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Do you actually think that a volunteer army wants to be in the heat of battle?

firstly, I'm betting the good reverend knows several who do; i do. secondly, to an extent, yes. i wish i was in afghanistan right now, i could help.

The best they can say is, "Well, I asked for it." And, in fact, most of them didn't ask for it. IMO volunteer forces enlist for very practical reasons. The very least of which is to lay down cover fire for you.

i'm thinking you are picturing our military members more as victims than they are. yes, you signed the contract you agreed to go, but there are parts of being deployed that are better than being CONUS side.

There's a fairness about a draft.

the draft has never been fair; the rich and connected who seek to avoid military service are always able to do so. working with a volunteer military service allows everyone the ability to avoid joining. the draft is also (let us admit) slavery. necessary perhaps for those scenarios where the nation itself is threatened; but not under any threat less than that. if you're not willing to kill your own children for victory, then it's not worth a draft.

And a certain benefit that our armed forces perform for us when they turn boys into men, combat aside.

that, at least, is generally true. i would have done much better at college had i gone after the military rather than before.
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
65,604
Reaction score
33,483
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I think young people not in college could use a little dose of military discipline even if for only 2 years. Does not have to be military either, peace corps would do.

you want them to get military discipline.... from the peace corps.
 

ReverendHellh0und

I don't respect you.
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
79,903
Reaction score
20,981
Location
I love your hate.
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Libertarian
Do you actually think that a volunteer army wants to be in the heat of battle? The best they can say is, "Well, I asked for it." And, in fact, most of them didn't ask for it. IMO volunteer forces enlist for very practical reasons. The very least of which is to lay down cover fire for you.

There's a fairness about a draft. And a certain benefit that our armed forces perform for us when they turn boys into men, combat aside.



I've been there, and no no one wants to "be there" but they know, we all knew, this was something we had to do, and in a sense wanted to be there in a way. Unlike if we drafted some fat kid and forced him to be there.
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
you want them to get military discipline.... from the peace corps.

Discipline AND more importantly a sense of responsibility.
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
I've been there, and no no one wants to "be there" but they know, we all knew, this was something we had to do, and in a sense wanted to be there in a way. Unlike if we drafted some fat kid and forced him to be there.

Ummmm... Rev, the military has standards. If someone cannot pass, they cannot pass.

No one would expect them to take anyone who could not pass the basic entrance tests etc.
 

MaggieD

Supporting Member
Monthly Subscriber
DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 9, 2010
Messages
43,244
Reaction score
44,661
Location
Chicago Area
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
firstly, I'm betting the good reverend knows several who do; i do. secondly, to an extent, yes. i wish i was in afghanistan right now, i could help.

CP, thank you for your service. I can't disagree, really. After 9/11, enlistment %'s were so far up that there was some concern, if I remember correctly, that young men were making rash decisions to enlist for the "wrong reasons." I also completely believe you when you say you wish you were in Afghanistan so you could help. I know that there's a real and beautiful, if you will, camaraderie that happens with our troops.

i'm thinking you are picturing our military members more as victims than they are. yes, you signed the contract you agreed to go, but there are parts of being deployed that are better than being CONUS side.

Not victims. I just think that an awful lot of our military never expected to be involved in the kind of war we're fighting. Or any war.

The draft has never been fair; the rich and connected who seek to avoid military service are always able to do so. working with a volunteer military service allows everyone the ability to avoid joining. the draft is also (let us admit) slavery. necessary perhaps for those scenarios where the nation itself is threatened; but not under any threat less than that. if you're not willing to kill your own children for victory, then it's not worth a draft.

I can't argue with you on history. You're right. It hasn't been fair -- no more evident than in the Viet Nam war. But the draft I envision would be a fair one - for men and women alike. As to your last sentence, there is no one willing to kill their own children for victory. I see a draft's benefits as being far beyond making war.
 

OscarB63

Farts in Elevators
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
26,526
Reaction score
9,462
Location
Alabama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
There's a fairness about a draft.

yeah, they fairly draft all the poor kids and all the rich spoiled brats (ie the ones who could really use some military discipline) go to college or Canada

And a certain benefit that our armed forces perform for us when they turn boys into men

I do agree that most young people could benefit from the discipline that military training provides. Compulsory military training followed by service of their choice be it military, social, peace corp, etc.
 

OscarB63

Farts in Elevators
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
26,526
Reaction score
9,462
Location
Alabama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Ummmm... Rev, the military has standards. If someone cannot pass, they cannot pass.

No one would expect them to take anyone who could not pass the basic entrance tests etc.

dude, on my last deployment I saw a Major that they pulled back out of the Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR) who weighed over 300 pounds. Bastard was so fat that his ass took up two chairs in the DFAC. And they gave him 6 weeks refresher training and sent his fat ass to Iraq.
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
dude, on my last deployment I saw a Major that they pulled back out of the Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR) who weighed over 300 pounds. Bastard was so fat that his ass took up two chairs in the DFAC. And they gave him 6 weeks refresher training and sent his fat ass to Iraq.

If they were drafting people, would have not been a need.
 

Ned Racine

Banned
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
588
Reaction score
41
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
Just as a side thought here : I've had the suspicion now for over 20 years that one of the factors aiding in this Great Social & Political Polarization in the land (you know Red State/Blue State) IS that there no longer is conscription. Young Men from various locations and Social strata are not in close confines anymore- don't have to work together and get along.

The cohesion that did come out of this experiance has been diminished.
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
OMG! Catz, myself and Ned agree on something. I think hell is experiencing snow.
 

OscarB63

Farts in Elevators
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
26,526
Reaction score
9,462
Location
Alabama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
If they were drafting people, would have not been a need.

meh, they have so stressed the Reserves and NG that they are critically short of Officers. I saw a Captain who had been pulled out of retirement and deployed CONUS to a medical retention center to be a company commander. The dude was 62 years old.

A draft isn't going to help that. The officer problem is that they get all these guys/girls coming in as 2LTs and then they deploy and abuse the hell out of them and then most of them get out when their 4-5 years is up and you are left with very few Captains.

This is good for promotion but bad overall. In my state, the last Major board that met had 40 slots to fill and only 11 guys who were eligible to be promoted.
 

OscarB63

Farts in Elevators
DP Veteran
Joined
Sep 7, 2010
Messages
26,526
Reaction score
9,462
Location
Alabama
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Young Men from various locations and Social strata are not in close confines anymore- don't have to work together and get along.

The cohesion that did come out of this experiance has been diminished.


the problem is not that they are not...just that NOT ENOUGH of them are. compulsory service would force everyone into the system.
 

Black Dog

King Of The Dog Pound
DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 14, 2008
Messages
36,230
Reaction score
8,358
Location
Georgia
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
meh, they have so stressed the Reserves and NG that they are critically short of Officers. I saw a Captain who had been pulled out of retirement and deployed CONUS to a medical retention center to be a company commander. The dude was 62 years old.

A draft isn't going to help that. The officer problem is that they get all these guys/girls coming in as 2LTs and then they deploy and abuse the hell out of them and then most of them get out when their 4-5 years is up and you are left with very few Captains.

This is good for promotion but bad overall. In my state, the last Major board that met had 40 slots to fill and only 11 guys who were eligible to be promoted.

Had no idea it was getting that bad. They need to do something to shore that up. A shortage of officers will hurt the military in the long run obviously as it already is.

You are right, a draft would not help that at all.
 

Ned Racine

Banned
Joined
Sep 24, 2010
Messages
588
Reaction score
41
Gender
Female
Political Leaning
Moderate
the problem is not that they are not...just that NOT ENOUGH of them are. compulsory service would force everyone into the system.



It would force a lot more - but not all.

Let me make one point clear. I favor a Draft , but do not favor prosecuting those who won't comply. If some opt out We can handle it - but in the future They will be "Outside of a lot of things" - They'll have the Right To Vote & Social Security - but that's about it. No Va, No Small Business or Farm Aid, No student Aid of ANY kind. More important No Government Employment at ANY level including State and local . If a region puts people on who didn't serve or who were not exempted legally - they lose the Federal bucks.

Now even that isn't totally Fair. Some WILL find the loopholes , but We will get a better pool of Younger Men in uniform . We really need only say a 60% compliance to get the necessary bodies.
 

cpwill

DP Veteran
Joined
Dec 20, 2009
Messages
65,604
Reaction score
33,483
Location
USofA
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Discipline AND more importantly a sense of responsibility.

good point. then we could give them all a sense of humility by having them work for the IRS.
 

jamesrage

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 31, 2005
Messages
34,696
Reaction score
16,413
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?

I have mixed feelings about this. I do think that if military service became mandatory it should be to a combat MOS in a active duty unit as an enlisted solider or marine first. Because the fact there would be lots of people who do not want to be in the miltiary we do not want these people in leadership or officer positions, so let them serve time as enlisted first before they can become an officer. POG(acronym for persons other than grunt, civilians in soldiers clothing, non-infantry) jobs and national guard and reserve should for those who already did their mandatory time so that we do not have anti-war trash, rich boys and celebs weaseling out of military service by doing fake military service or military service equivalent to civilian jobs.

That said I think mandatory military service would be a bad thing. It would mean that the US government does not have to entice people to join. Which means no sign on bonuses, no health care, decent pay(its already what one would not consider decent pay) and other benefits.
 
Top Bottom