Mandatory military service?

[Slartibartfast]

Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

absolutley not. The last thing I would have wanted would be some d00d who didn't want to be there laying down cover fire for me....

 

[winston53660]

I support some kind of compulsory service military being one option.

 

[Laila]

No way. I see no benefit to it.

 

[digsbe]

I could possibly support mandatory military training (like a 6 week training thing) and then going home. I don't support mandatory service though.

 

[Catz Part Deux]

No way. I see no benefit to it.

It appears to work well in Israel. :shrug: And, I don't believe that the service should be necessarily MILITARY in nature. I would support requiring some kind of service, though.

 

[Black Dog]

I think young people not in college could use a little dose of military discipline even if for only 2 years. Does not have to be military either, peace corps would do.

 

[MaggieD]

absolutley not. The last thing I would have wanted would be some d00d who didn't want to be there laying down cover fire for me....

Do you actually think that a volunteer army wants to be in the heat of battle? The best they can say is, "Well, I asked for it." And, in fact, most of them didn't ask for it. IMO volunteer forces enlist for very practical reasons. The very least of which is to lay down cover fire for you.

There's a fairness about a draft. And a certain benefit that our armed forces perform for us when they turn boys into men, combat aside.

 

[cpwill]

Do you actually think that a volunteer army wants to be in the heat of battle?

firstly, I'm betting the good reverend knows several who do; i do. secondly, to an extent, yes. i wish i was in afghanistan right now, i could help.

The best they can say is, "Well, I asked for it." And, in fact, most of them didn't ask for it. IMO volunteer forces enlist for very practical reasons. The very least of which is to lay down cover fire for you.

i'm thinking you are picturing our military members more as victims than they are. yes, you signed the contract you agreed to go, but there are parts of being deployed that are better than being CONUS side.

There's a fairness about a draft.

the draft has never been fair; the rich and connected who seek to avoid military service are always able to do so. working with a volunteer military service allows everyone the ability to avoid joining. the draft is also (let us admit) slavery. necessary perhaps for those scenarios where the nation itself is threatened; but not under any threat less than that. if you're not willing to kill your own children for victory, then it's not worth a draft.

And a certain benefit that our armed forces perform for us when they turn boys into men, combat aside.

that, at least, is generally true. i would have done much better at college had i gone after the military rather than before.

 

[cpwill]

I think young people not in college could use a little dose of military discipline even if for only 2 years. Does not have to be military either, peace corps would do.

you want them to get military discipline.... from the peace corps.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Do you actually think that a volunteer army wants to be in the heat of battle? The best they can say is, "Well, I asked for it." And, in fact, most of them didn't ask for it. IMO volunteer forces enlist for very practical reasons. The very least of which is to lay down cover fire for you.

There's a fairness about a draft. And a certain benefit that our armed forces perform for us when they turn boys into men, combat aside.

I've been there, and no no one wants to "be there" but they know, we all knew, this was something we had to do, and in a sense wanted to be there in a way. Unlike if we drafted some fat kid and forced him to be there.

 

[Black Dog]

you want them to get military discipline.... from the peace corps.

Discipline AND more importantly a sense of responsibility.

 

[Black Dog]

I've been there, and no no one wants to "be there" but they know, we all knew, this was something we had to do, and in a sense wanted to be there in a way. Unlike if we drafted some fat kid and forced him to be there.

Ummmm... Rev, the military has standards. If someone cannot pass, they cannot pass.

No one would expect them to take anyone who could not pass the basic entrance tests etc.

 

[MaggieD]

firstly, I'm betting the good reverend knows several who do; i do. secondly, to an extent, yes. i wish i was in afghanistan right now, i could help.

CP, thank you for your service. I can't disagree, really. After 9/11, enlistment %'s were so far up that there was some concern, if I remember correctly, that young men were making rash decisions to enlist for the "wrong reasons." I also completely believe you when you say you wish you were in Afghanistan so you could help. I know that there's a real and beautiful, if you will, camaraderie that happens with our troops.

i'm thinking you are picturing our military members more as victims than they are. yes, you signed the contract you agreed to go, but there are parts of being deployed that are better than being CONUS side.

Not victims. I just think that an awful lot of our military never expected to be involved in the kind of war we're fighting. Or any war.

The draft has never been fair; the rich and connected who seek to avoid military service are always able to do so. working with a volunteer military service allows everyone the ability to avoid joining. the draft is also (let us admit) slavery. necessary perhaps for those scenarios where the nation itself is threatened; but not under any threat less than that. if you're not willing to kill your own children for victory, then it's not worth a draft.

I can't argue with you on history. You're right. It hasn't been fair -- no more evident than in the Viet Nam war. But the draft I envision would be a fair one - for men and women alike. As to your last sentence, there is no one willing to kill their own children for victory. I see a draft's benefits as being far beyond making war.

 

[OscarB63]

There's a fairness about a draft.

yeah, they fairly draft all the poor kids and all the rich spoiled brats (ie the ones who could really use some military discipline) go to college or Canada

And a certain benefit that our armed forces perform for us when they turn boys into men

I do agree that most young people could benefit from the discipline that military training provides. Compulsory military training followed by service of their choice be it military, social, peace corp, etc.

 

[OscarB63]

Ummmm... Rev, the military has standards. If someone cannot pass, they cannot pass.

No one would expect them to take anyone who could not pass the basic entrance tests etc.

dude, on my last deployment I saw a Major that they pulled back out of the Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR) who weighed over 300 pounds. Bastard was so fat that his ass took up two chairs in the DFAC. And they gave him 6 weeks refresher training and sent his fat ass to Iraq.

 

[Black Dog]

dude, on my last deployment I saw a Major that they pulled back out of the Inactive Ready Reserve (IRR) who weighed over 300 pounds. Bastard was so fat that his ass took up two chairs in the DFAC. And they gave him 6 weeks refresher training and sent his fat ass to Iraq.

If they were drafting people, would have not been a need.

 

[Ned Racine]

Just as a side thought here : I've had the suspicion now for over 20 years that one of the factors aiding in this Great Social & Political Polarization in the land (you know Red State/Blue State) IS that there no longer is conscription. Young Men from various locations and Social strata are not in close confines anymore- don't have to work together and get along.

The cohesion that did come out of this experiance has been diminished.

 

[Black Dog]

OMG! Catz, myself and Ned agree on something. I think hell is experiencing snow.

 

[OscarB63]

If they were drafting people, would have not been a need.

meh, they have so stressed the Reserves and NG that they are critically short of Officers. I saw a Captain who had been pulled out of retirement and deployed CONUS to a medical retention center to be a company commander. The dude was 62 years old.

A draft isn't going to help that. The officer problem is that they get all these guys/girls coming in as 2LTs and then they deploy and abuse the hell out of them and then most of them get out when their 4-5 years is up and you are left with very few Captains.

This is good for promotion but bad overall. In my state, the last Major board that met had 40 slots to fill and only 11 guys who were eligible to be promoted.

 

[OscarB63]

Young Men from various locations and Social strata are not in close confines anymore- don't have to work together and get along.

The cohesion that did come out of this experiance has been diminished.

the problem is not that they are not...just that NOT ENOUGH of them are. compulsory service would force everyone into the system.

 

[Black Dog]

meh, they have so stressed the Reserves and NG that they are critically short of Officers. I saw a Captain who had been pulled out of retirement and deployed CONUS to a medical retention center to be a company commander. The dude was 62 years old.

A draft isn't going to help that. The officer problem is that they get all these guys/girls coming in as 2LTs and then they deploy and abuse the hell out of them and then most of them get out when their 4-5 years is up and you are left with very few Captains.

This is good for promotion but bad overall. In my state, the last Major board that met had 40 slots to fill and only 11 guys who were eligible to be promoted.

Had no idea it was getting that bad. They need to do something to shore that up. A shortage of officers will hurt the military in the long run obviously as it already is.

You are right, a draft would not help that at all.

 

[Ned Racine]

the problem is not that they are not...just that NOT ENOUGH of them are. compulsory service would force everyone into the system.

It would force a lot more - but not all.

Let me make one point clear. I favor a Draft , but do not favor prosecuting those who won't comply. If some opt out We can handle it - but in the future They will be "Outside of a lot of things" - They'll have the Right To Vote & Social Security - but that's about it. No Va, No Small Business or Farm Aid, No student Aid of ANY kind. More important No Government Employment at ANY level including State and local . If a region puts people on who didn't serve or who were not exempted legally - they lose the Federal bucks.

Now even that isn't totally Fair. Some WILL find the loopholes , but We will get a better pool of Younger Men in uniform . We really need only say a 60% compliance to get the necessary bodies.

 

[cpwill]

Discipline AND more importantly a sense of responsibility.

good point. then we could give them all a sense of humility by having them work for the IRS.

 

[jamesrage]

Would you support a mandatory service when a person turns 21 or 18?

I have mixed feelings about this. I do think that if military service became mandatory it should be to a combat MOS in a active duty unit as an enlisted solider or marine first. Because the fact there would be lots of people who do not want to be in the miltiary we do not want these people in leadership or officer positions, so let them serve time as enlisted first before they can become an officer. POG(acronym for persons other than grunt, civilians in soldiers clothing, non-infantry) jobs and national guard and reserve should for those who already did their mandatory time so that we do not have anti-war trash, rich boys and celebs weaseling out of military service by doing fake military service or military service equivalent to civilian jobs.

That said I think mandatory military service would be a bad thing. It would mean that the US government does not have to entice people to join. Which means no sign on bonuses, no health care, decent pay(its already what one would not consider decent pay) and other benefits.