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Mandatory Draft

Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Insurgencies alone can't win wars only militaries can, we took Baghdad in a week the Iraqi military is totally destroyed and the resistance is now made up of people who blow themselves up to kill civilians, they can't do any real damage to our military and they know it, insurgencies alone always fail in the end, it's historical fact it just takes about 8-10 years.

And this is exactly why Iraqies mistrust and dislike America. You only focus on your own damage to your military and thinks ok no problem lets stay. But ignore the Iraqie casualties. So yes the insurgancy may not make the american military pay a high price but the civilians have to pay it. But maybee that's a fair deal for some americans.
 
Bergslagstroll said:
And this is exactly why Iraqies mistrust and dislike America. You only focus on your own damage to your military and thinks ok no problem lets stay. But ignore the Iraqie casualties. So yes the insurgancy may not make the american military pay a high price but the civilians have to pay it. But maybee that's a fair deal for some americans.

Hay good plan let's leave the country and let the people killing the civilians run the place. :roll:

Oh and let's totally ignore the fact that the elected Iraqi government voted by an overwhelming majority to have the U.S. stay and that every poll taken from the Iraqi populace has been in support of the U.S. staying.
 
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Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Hay good plan let's leave the country and let the people killing the civilians run the place. :roll:

Oh and let's totally ignore the fact that the elected Iraqi government voted by an overwhelming majority to have the U.S. stay and that every poll taken from the Iraqi populace has been in support of the U.S. staying.

Well actually it's us who are doing the killing. This war enviroment wasn't there before we came.

What are you talking about??? The iraqi government WANTS us to leave.

Take a look at this

http://www.adn.com/24hour/iraq/story/2301106p-10508563c.html
 
Che said:
Well actually it's us who are doing the killing. This war enviroment wasn't there before we came.

Are you kidding me?! You obviously have NO clue what you are talking about. Sadaam Hussein used chemical weapons against his own people, in a genocide against the Kurds. Had women raped and killed. Had people executed by walking off building tops. Told his sons when they were about 12 years old that they had to "kill or be killed" and gave them a gun and let them shoot prisoners in a prison.

Over 290,000 Iraqis have "disappeared"
Over 180,000 Kurds were executed

Over 200 mass grave sites were found with over at least 800 bodies in each mass grave site.

http://www.usaid.gov/iraq/legacyofterror.html
 
Che said:
We get every male 18-21 at first to register for a draft.

Ummm . . .

Every male 18 year-old IS ALREADY required to register for the draft.


Instead of having a small amount of trrops, we could raise it to 500,000 and overwhelm the insurgents. That way we can finish the job faster and get back to real problems that we face here in America.

We could do that by closing our bases in Europe and redeploying those troops.

In any case, the commanders on the ground have repeatedly stated they don't need or want more than they already have, and I'm inclined to take their assessment as qualitative.
 
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Che said:
What are you talking about??? The iraqi government WANTS us to leave.

Take a look at this

http://www.adn.com/24hour/iraq/story/2301106p-10508563c.html

This story specifically said that the government (this being the government in place in April '05) didn't want us to leave . . .

And the group it said DID want us to leave were "mostly followers of Moqtada al-Sadr."

Sadr is a brutal butcher (much like Guevara in that regard, actually) who wants to impose harsh Islamic law, with all the stonings and choppings and repression that entails. You rooting for him? You think most Iraqis are?
 
Che said:
Well actually it's us who are doing the killing. This war enviroment wasn't there before we came.

What are you talking about??? The iraqi government WANTS us to leave.

Take a look at this

http://www.adn.com/24hour/iraq/story/2301106p-10508563c.html

No actually it's the insurgency doing the killing as for the atmosphere before we got there it was far far worse Saddam killed far more people than the insurgency could ever hope to.

And what am I talking about? The elected Iraqi government voted for us to stay and the President asked us to stay.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
No actually it's the insurgency doing the killing as for the atmosphere before we got there it was far far worse Saddam killed far more people than the insurgency could ever hope to.

And what am I talking about? The elected Iraqi government voted for us to stay and the President asked us to stay.

We do what Saddam does now. Capital Punishment. Saddam killed 300,000 while we and the insurgency have killed 100,000 in only 3 years. C'mon don't be naive we kill civilians:http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3827.htm

The iraqi gov't voted to have us stay but if you read the article you'd realize that they want us to leave very soon.
 
Harshaw said:
Ummm . . .

Every male 18 year-old IS ALREADY required to register for the draft.


We could do that by closing our bases in Europe and redeploying those troops.

In any case, the commanders on the ground have repeatedly stated they don't need or want more than they already have, and I'm inclined to take their assessment as qualitative.

Yes but no one is being drafted.

Redemployment is a good idea. In fact I don't know why we haven't done that yet.

If they don't want more troops then why are they setting there goals so high and missing them

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1501654/20050511/index.jhtml?headlines=true

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8172384
 
Che said:
We do what Saddam does now. Capital Punishment. Saddam killed 300,000 while we and the insurgency have killed 100,000 in only 3 years. C'mon don't be naive we kill civilians:http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3827.htm

The iraqi gov't voted to have us stay but if you read the article you'd realize that they want us to leave very soon.

10,000 insurgents want us to leave and 27 million Iraqis want us to stay, the bulk of civilian casualties is thanks to the insurgency they specifically target civilians the U.S. does not, are you asserting that there is some sort of moral equivalency between the U.S. and Saddam Hussein? Unbelievable we do capital punishment for people who have committed murder, Saddam used capital punishment for people who spoke an ill word about his Murderish regime, you're really unbelievable.
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
10,000 insurgents want us to leave and 27 million Iraqis want us to stay, the bulk of civilian casualties is thanks to the insurgency they specifically target civilians the U.S. does not, are you asserting that there is some sort of moral equivalency between the U.S. and Saddam Hussein? Unbelievable we do capital punishment for people who have committed murder, Saddam used capital punishment for people who spoke an ill word about his Murderish regime, you're really unbelievable.

I think everyone except the Shiite majority that has taken over want us to leave. We've created a theocracy.

I am in no way trying to compare Saddam with America. Saddame was a murdering tyrant and we're not. All I'm saying is that if we continue with this casualty rate, millions will be dead by the time we leave. Unless we get more Military adivsors over there to train ther troops, and for GI's to swamp the insurgency.

You're right though. The capital punishment comment wasn't needed but you can draw comparisons. War is really never good. The longer it takes and the poorer it's run, the more deaths there going to be. So let's end it. That's all I'm saying
 
Che said:
I think everyone except the Shiite majority that has taken over want us to leave. We've created a theocracy.

I am in no way trying to compare Saddam with America. Saddame was a murdering tyrant and we're not. All I'm saying is that if we continue with this casualty rate, millions will be dead by the time we leave. Unless we get more Military adivsors over there to train ther troops, and for GI's to swamp the insurgency.

You're right though. The capital punishment comment wasn't needed but you can draw comparisons. War is really never good. The longer it takes and the poorer it's run, the more deaths there going to be. So let's end it. That's all I'm saying

They put it to a vote and the U.S. was asked to stay by an overwhelming majority, and it's only the Sunni minority who lost their strangle hold on power who want us to leave both the Shiite's and the Kurds are in support of the U.S. staying though.
 
Che said:
Well actually it's us who are doing the killing. This war enviroment wasn't there before we came.

What are you talking about??? The iraqi government WANTS us to leave.

Take a look at this

http://www.adn.com/24hour/iraq/story/2301106p-10508563c.html


Errr Che? Muqtada al-Sadr is not in anyway a part of the Iraqi government.

Iraqis are increasingly calling on U.S. forces to leave their troubled nation, emboldened by a newly elected parliament and the growing presence of their blue-uniformed police forces - even though the new Iraqi leaders say it's too early to talk about a U.S. pullout.

Tens of thousands of mostly Shiite protesters, largely followers of militant cleric Muqtada al-Sadr...



Al Sadr is a militant who refused time and again offers to join the political process until he was outgunned and surrounded only to say, 'yeah, I'm in' just in time to avoid being killed.

He's still not in any more than he was in April '05 when this piece was written.
 
VTA said:
Errr Che? Muqtada al-Sadr is not in anyway a part of the Iraqi government.

Iraqis are increasingly calling on U.S. forces to leave their troubled nation, emboldened by a newly elected parliament and the growing presence of their blue-uniformed police forces - even though the new Iraqi leaders say it's too early to talk about a U.S. pullout.

Tens of thousands of mostly Shiite protesters, largely followers of militant cleric Muqtada al-Sadr...



Al Sadr is a militant who refused time and again offers to join the political process until he was outgunned and surrounded only to say, 'yeah, I'm in' just in time to avoid being killed.

He's still not in any more than he was in April '05 when this piece was written.

"Iraqis are increasingly calling on U.S. forces to leave"

maybe not a pull out yet, but they're wanting us to leave
 
Che said:
"Iraqis are increasingly calling on U.S. forces to leave"

maybe not a pull out yet, but they're wanting us to leave

That's not the government, and the majority of your example were followers of the militant.
 
VTA said:
That's not the government, and the majority of your example were followers of the militant.

"Iraqis are increasingly calling on U.S. forces to leave their troubled nation, emboldened by a newly elected parliament and the growing presence of their blue-uniformed police forces"

That's the full quote. Errr.... I'm pretty sure militants aren't emboldened by Police and politicians
 
Che said:
"Iraqis are increasingly calling on U.S. forces to leave their troubled nation, emboldened by a newly elected parliament and the growing presence of their blue-uniformed police forces"

That's the full quote. Errr.... I'm pretty sure militants aren't emboldened by Police and politicians


Hay well that biased quote proves it then right? Even though it's in contradiction of what the President of Iraq said said, how the Iraqi government voted, and what the polls of the Iraqi people say. :roll:
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
Hay well that biased quote proves it then right? Even though it's in contradiction of what the President of Iraq said said, how the Iraqi government voted, and what the polls of the Iraqi people say. :roll:

Right, the theocratcic Shiite government and the non-exsistant TOT poll
 
Che said:
Right, the theocratcic Shiite government and the non-exsistant TOT poll

I just love these fallacious assumptions that the new Iraqi parliament wants a theocracy.

Your pointing out one radicals viewpoint and claimng that it speaks for the entire Iraqi parliament is like saying that Ted Kennedy speaks for the entire Congress.
 
Che said:
Right, the theocratcic Shiite government and the non-exsistant TOT poll

Here's a fantastic example of what the Left has been doing throughout the entire Bush administration, and not just about the War on Terror:

Moving the goalposts.

It's a repeating pattern:

"Bush needs to accomplish X. It'll never happen."

(X happens.)

"Yeah? Well, Y didn't happen, and X is meaningless without it . . . "

(Y happens)

"So what? For real success, you need Z."

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Put simply, the Left wants nothing better than gloom, doom, and defeat. They root for us to lose.
 
Che said:
"Iraqis are increasingly calling on U.S. forces to leave their troubled nation, emboldened by a newly elected parliament and the growing presence of their blue-uniformed police forces"

That's the full quote. Errr.... I'm pretty sure militants aren't emboldened by Police and politicians

Your intial quote was that the Government wanted us to leave... to bolster this you brought up a nearly year old article that centers mostly around al Sadr and his followers. Yes, the militant al Sadr is free to move about the country and make all claims he wishes to make and so do his followers. As he's not an insurgent and is a some time cooperative visible figure in Iraq, you can be damned sure he and his followers had no trouble trying to paint the then new parliament and 'blue-uniformed police' as proof of a stable Iraq in his protest. No one bought it.

In short, he doesn't speak for the Iraqi population and that article doesn't quantify your position as true.
 
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Harshaw said:
Here's a fantastic example of what the Left has been doing throughout the entire Bush administration, and not just about the War on Terror:

Moving the goalposts.

It's a repeating pattern:

"Bush needs to accomplish X. It'll never happen."

(X happens.)

"Yeah? Well, Y didn't happen, and X is meaningless without it . . . "

(Y happens)

"So what? For real success, you need Z."

Lather, rinse, repeat.

Put simply, the Left wants nothing better than gloom, doom, and defeat. They root for us to lose.

Yeah you got us there. That's been our goal this entire time: complete failure in Iraq, along with as many American deaths as possible. Can't pull the wool over your eyes.:roll: *ahem* Your partisanship's showing.
 
Kelzie said:
Yeah you got us there. That's been our goal this entire time: complete failure in Iraq, along with as many American deaths as possible. Can't pull the wool over your eyes.:roll: *ahem* Your partisanship's showing.

From Deans comments that we can't win the war to Kerry calling the troops terrorists all the way to Murtha calling for premature withdrawal it sure does seem like you want us to fail. Get with the program the Democrats are invested in defeat they want Bush to fail so they can reclaim their power, and let's not even get into how the liberals secretly cheer everytme there's another insurgency bombing resulting in U.S. casualties so they can celebrate the 1,000 and 2,000 KIA counts like they're a fuc/king holiday!
 
Trajan Octavian Titus said:
From Deans comments that we can't win the war to Kerry calling the troops terrorists all the way to Murtha calling for premature withdrawal it sure does seem like you want us to fail. Get with the program the Democrats are invested in defeat they want Bush to fail so they can reclaim their power, and let's not even get into how the liberals secretly cheer everytme there's another insurgency bombing resulting in U.S. casualties so they can celebrate the 1,000 and 2,000 KIA counts like they're a fuc/king holiday!

Uh huh. TOT, it's been a long time since you've said something reasonable. You might want to give it a try from time to time. Shake people up a bit.
 
Kelzie said:
Uh huh. TOT, it's been a long time since you've said something reasonable. You might want to give it a try from time to time. Shake people up a bit.

You can't on one side of your mouth say: "the troops are terrorists, we can't win the war, the war was a mistake, we were misled into war, the war is illegal, the war is unjust, President Bush is the worlds biggest terrorist, Bush lied kids died, we demand withdrawal, etc etc." And then on the other side of your mouth say: "how dare you say that we don't want to win in Iraq."

That sh!t just doesn't fly.
 
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