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Manchin is Bad At Math

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This is almost as bad as righties are at math. They think of you cut taxes (revenue) you get more revenue lol.

Furthermore, a constant regimen of nonstop tax cuts leads to Righties being conditioned to subconsciously assume that services don't cost anything, which leads to shock and anger when said services begin to fail, at which point Republicans accuse everyone else (but themselves) of screwing said services up.
 

jonny5

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CBO report on the Wont Reduce Inflation Act of 2022.


If Im reading this correct, it will INCREASE the deficit by 22bn the first 4 years. Decrease the deficit by 100bn after 10 years. As we know, they typically spend more and dont get the tax revenue they predict. Especially the further out they go. And this is if there are no other changes to law. We know they are planning on passing 75bn for CHIPs and 200bn on Comprehensive Toxics, with no pay fors, so any deficit reduction from hypothetical taxes is already spent 4x over.
 

notquiteright

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For evidence, he thinks raising taxes and spending 370bn on climate change will pay off 30 trillion in debt. Even if they got 700bn in revenue, 300bn after spending wouldnt do much to the trillion dollar deficit which doubles in the next 10 years under current law. He also wants to spend EVEN more on healthcare via subsidies. And all this during recession and inflation with ever shrinking labor force. Its insanity.
Welllll.... his math makes more sense than the cut taxes on corporations and the 1% will end the red ink in our lifetime... ✌️
 

NOVA66

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For evidence, he thinks raising taxes and spending 370bn on climate change will pay off 30 trillion in debt. Even if they got 700bn in revenue, 300bn after spending wouldnt do much to the trillion dollar deficit which doubles in the next 10 years under current law. He also wants to spend EVEN more on healthcare via subsidies. And all this during recession and inflation with ever shrinking labor force. Its insanity.
Republicans spending is out of control and continues to add to the over $30 Trillion debt. Republicans are RINO'S and fake conservatives. Look at all the tax payer scam money in the "Paycheck Protection Program" SCAM
Republicans voted against transparency the "Truth Act H.R 6782 to keep voters from knowing about the scam.
 

NOVA66

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Strawman. Though revenue HAS doubled in the last 15 years.
That makes Republicans even bigger wasteful spenders if their tax cuts brought in more revenue they spent more money because the Federal Debt rose.
 

jonny5

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Not at all, the justification for cutting the taxes for the already well off was it would reduce the deficit. It in fact didn't, it worsened.

I'm sure you have a reliable source to back your claim... ✌️

Yeah, history. https://www.cbo.gov/data/budget-economic-data#2

1659699787118.png

As for "cut taxes on corporations and the 1% will end the red ink" i assume you have a reliable source to back up your claim. The deficit rose because of spending, not taxes. Nothing has changed.

1659700055605.png
 

jonny5

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Republicans spending is out of control and continues to add to the over $30 Trillion debt. Republicans are RINO'S and fake conservatives. Look at all the tax payer scam money in the "Paycheck Protection Program" SCAM
Republicans voted against transparency the "Truth Act H.R 6782 to keep voters from knowing about the scam.

Sarcasm?
 

notquiteright

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Yeah, history. https://www.cbo.gov/data/budget-economic-data#2

View attachment 67404993

As for "cut taxes on corporations and the 1% will end the red ink" i assume you have a reliable source to back up your claim. The deficit rose because of spending, not taxes. Nothing has changed.

View attachment 67404994
Ah yes, the 'there are only two factors in this' charts.... :rolleyes:

What the 'tax cuts increase revenue' leave out of the equation- what was the FED doing at the same time??? Practically giving money away to big banks who passed that extremely low to no interest money along- not to us of course- to corporations and investment groups.

You should say as interest rates fell; revenue went up... :unsure:

You can also say as the GOP hyped their tax cuts, they used the promise of expected increased revenue to overspend- how 'liberal' of them.

Bottomline, you can't give tax cuts credit for increased revenue and pretend giving the major players 'free' money to use (and abuse) doesn't matter... ✌️
 

notquiteright

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Ah yes, the "there are only two factors" ...🤰
Ah yes, ignore the tax cut/increased revenue is a false narrative. I could say free fed money increases revenue. The issue is far more complex than giving the very rich and major corporations more tax cuts is good for 'Merica... ✌️
 

notquiteright

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I have to say, its pretty maddening that you keep criticizing your own argument.

"Welllll.... his math makes more sense than the cut taxes on corporations and the 1% will end the red ink in our lifetime..."☔
You keep trying to move the issue I commented on- :cautious:

Tax cuts alone didn't increase revenue- The Fed giving major financial institutions 'free' money to give to major corporations and fund managers was a YUGE factor in increased revenue... :unsure:

Not commenting on anything more than that... ✌️
 

jonny5

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You keep trying to move the issue I commented on- :cautious:

Tax cuts alone didn't increase revenue- The Fed giving major financial institutions 'free' money to give to major corporations and fund managers was a YUGE factor in increased revenue... :unsure:

Not commenting on anything more than that... ✌️

Well no, Im still on the issue you commented on.🌴

You said the argument "cut taxes on corporations and the 1% will end the red ink in our lifetime..." makes less sense than Manchin saying 300bn would pay off 30 trillion in debt. 👨‍👧

To which I said strawman and showed you where revenue went up in any case. Since then youre just dismissing arguments and then making the same type of argument you dismissed.👞
 

ttwtt78640

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Sorry, it does not work that way if the total is expanding!
If the economy is increasing, you can cut the percentage, and maintain the same income.

That is not taking inflation into account. If (when?) Social Security benefits increase by 10% next year while FICA tax revenue goes up by (at most) 5% next year then what happens?
 

longview

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That is not taking inflation into account. If (when?) Social Security benefits increase by 10% next year while FICA tax revenue goes up by (at most) 5% next year then what happens?
Yes different scales can affect the results.
I wonder how all the higher wages will effect the FICA revenues?
 

longview

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Total different situation. At the time, taxes were so high (to pay off the war debt), that it was slowing the velocity of money in the economy.
Allowing people to spend more of their own money, usually means they just that spend the extra, I think it always apples
 

ttwtt78640

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Yes different scales can affect the results.
I wonder how all the higher wages will effect the FICA revenues?

We will see soon enough. I suspect that the guesstimated expiration date of the SS ’trust me’ fund will be moved from 2034 to 2032. As I noted, SS benefit costs are rising faster than FICA ‘payroll’ tax revenue.
 

ALiberalModerate

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Allowing people to spend more of their own money, usually means they just that spend the extra, I think it always apples
If that is the case, then why not just tax less than 1%, if lower taxes always equals more revenue?
 

longview

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If that is the case, then why not just tax less than 1%, if lower taxes always equals more revenue?
Government has a real cost that must be covered, that said the people in charge of the peoples money should be as thrifty as possible, that has not been happening!
 

ALiberalModerate

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Government has a real cost that must be covered, that said the people in charge of the peoples money should be as thrifty as possible, that has not been happening!
That isn't the question. There is no doubt that taxes can be high enough to put a drag on economic growth and thus lower revenues relative to where they would be otherwise.

However, if the answer is always lower taxes, then why not set it at 1%? You know the answer to that, because at some point taxes can be low enough that they don't put a drag on economic growth, thus lower taxes just lowers revenues. When JFK cut taxes, the top marginal rate went from 91% to 72%. Those were not the effective tax rates, but the effective tax rates were higher then too. The concern was that the government was taxing so much, that it was slowing the velocity of money in the economy. That is an entirely different world than the one we are in today.
 

george48

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For evidence, he thinks raising taxes and spending 370bn on climate change will pay off 30 trillion in debt. Even if they got 700bn in revenue, 300bn after spending wouldnt do much to the trillion dollar deficit which doubles in the next 10 years under current law. He also wants to spend EVEN more on healthcare via subsidies. And all this during recession and inflation with ever shrinking labor force. Its insanity.
based
 
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