Man Gets 55 Years for Selling Pot!!!

[argexpat]

I do NOT agree with your statment about legalizing Pot.

Why? You think pot smokers should be in jail? Alcohol and tobbacco kill hundreds of thousands of people every year. We tried criminalizing alcohol and created a brutal criminal underground.

 

[argexpat]

I'm glad to know that you watch the 'Fair and Balanced" news on Fox.

I turn to Fox "News" to stay on top of the latest Republican :spin:. It's a nice service they provide.

 

[Fantasea]

Why? You think pot smokers should be in jail? Alcohol and tobbacco kill hundreds of thousands of people every year. We tried criminalizing alcohol and created a brutal criminal underground.

So long as a person violates the law, punishment is warranted.

 

[Fantasea]

I turn to Fox "News" to stay on top of the latest Republican :spin:. It's a nice service they provide.

Careful now, too much spinning can cause socialist-lib-dem ideas to shake loose.

 

[Gabo]

People act as if legalizing drugs would cause chaos and that all the evil criminals that happen to use drugs would just be let free to wreak havoc!

That's not true! They would still be punished for murder, rape, or other wrong acts.

However, consuming drugs hurts NO ONE but yourself.

NOBODY, I repeat NOBODY has the right to tell you what harmless acts you can and cannot do. It doesn't matter if its an individual, a group, or people that dress fancy and wear badges.

 

[Fantasea]

People act as if legalizing drugs would cause chaos and that all the evil criminals that happen to use drugs would just be let free to wreak havoc!

That's not true! They would still be punished for murder, rape, or other wrong acts.

However, consuming drugs hurts NO ONE but yourself.

NOBODY, I repeat NOBODY has the right to tell you what harmless acts you can and cannot do. It doesn't matter if its an individual, a group, or people that dress fancy and wear badges.

They say that drug use has a very detrimental effect on the memory.

Please refer to posts 24 and 33 in this thread. Both address the ridiculous question of whether "consuming drugs hurts NO ONE but yourself".

 

[Gabo]

Every situation you speak of deal with a real crime thats associated with taking drugs. Punish people for the crime, not for their preference of what they consume.

Guns can hurt people, why not outlaw those?

All prescription drugs are harmful, why not outlaw those?

The more "prevention" you try to enact on us for our "safety", the more our freedom and rights diminish. WAKE UP! It's our freedom and rights you are trying to protect with this "prevention", which is in fact a cure worse than the disease.

 

[Ashley]

argepax,

I dont feel that we should legalize pot because I've lost too many amazing friends to that disgusting drug... Not only does it fry the mind & makes you stupid it can lead to harder drugs.

I want America's youth to be able to get a good education and actually care rather than going home everyday and smoking pot while thousands of brain cells fry...

I know that cigarettes are legalized, and trust me I'm not a Hypocrite. I dont think that cigarattes should be legal either... They are just as damaging as pot to me.

 

[Gabo]

Ashley,

What you need to understand is that America is SUPPOSED to be a free country. If someone wants to mess up their life, they're going to do it anyways whether its legal or not. You must ask yourself this question:

Whats better for your friend, smoking pot while still trying to be a normal person, or living in jail for years upon years only to come out much worse than when (s)he went in.

Besides, as a friend you can tell him/her that you think pot is harmful and you are scared for your friend's mental and physical health. I know I'd much rather partially lose a friend while being able to get them back more than I'd like having that friend locked away forever.

 

[heyjoeo]

Ashley, I'd like you to TRY to get evidence that pot is a bad drug. Go try. I challenge you. And please, don't get information on like www.potisthedevil.com. I want scientific facts. I will destroy any of your arguments.

 

[Fantasea]

Ashley,

What you need to understand is that America is SUPPOSED to be a free country. If someone wants to mess up their life, they're going to do it anyways whether its legal or not. You must ask yourself this question:

Whats better for your friend, smoking pot while still trying to be a normal person, or living in jail for years upon years only to come out much worse than when (s)he went in.

Besides, as a friend you can tell him/her that you think pot is harmful and you are scared for your friend's mental and physical health. I know I'd much rather partially lose a friend while being able to get them back more than I'd like having that friend locked away forever.

In a 'free country' laws are made and enforced to protect the populace. Until repealed, obedience to a law is not optional.

If your 'friend' cannot or will not understand this, then he deserves whatever penalty is meted out upon conviction. Rationalizing bad behavior doesn't cut it.

Your 'friend' has the option of cleaning up his act or going to jail. He knows this. It's his choice; rehab or the pokey.

No unaddicted person believes that nonsense about 'a victimless crime'.

 

[Fantasea]

Ashley, I'd like you to TRY to get evidence that pot is a bad drug. Go try. I challenge you. And please, don't get information on like www.potisthedevil.com. I want scientific facts. I will destroy any of your arguments.

Here is an article that discusses both sides; 'recreational' and medical.

According to the article, 'recreational' is just another way of spelling trouble.

If there are properties in marijuana that can produce medical benefits, then let the prescription drug manufacturers use it to formulate medications that can be prescribed by doctors for use by patients under their care.


March 22, 1997
Marijuana on Trial
Is marijuana a dangerous drug or a valuable medicine?
By KATHLEEN FACKELMANN

For decades, the debate over marijuana's role as a medicinal drug has waxed and waned. The conflict intensified recently, when voters in California and Arizona passed measures allowing seriously ill people to obtain marijuana, with a doctor's OK, for medical purposes.

Lined up on one side of the debate are retired Army General Barry R. McCaffrey, President Clinton's drug policy advisor, and others who believe that marijuana is first and foremost a hazardous, illegal drug. Joseph A. Califano Jr., president of the National Center on Addiction and Substance Abuse at Columbia University and former Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare, summed up that viewpoint in an op-ed piece published in the Feb. 17 Washington Post. Noting marijuana's reputation as a drug that can lead to hard-core drug addiction, he writes that "teens who smoke pot are 85 times likelier to use drugs such as cocaine than those who have never done so."

Squaring off against the zero-drug-tolerance crowd is a mix of people, including some scientists and patients, who believe marijuana has proven medicinal properties. Jerome P. Kassirer, editor-in-chief of the New England Journal of Medicine, joined this side with an impassioned editorial in the Jan. 30 issue. "Thousands of patients with cancer, AIDS, and other diseases report they have obtained striking relief from these devastating symptoms by smoking marijuana," he writes. "The alleviation of distress can be so striking that some patients and their families have been willing to risk a jail term to obtain or grow the marijuana."

 

[Gabo]

In a 'free country' laws are made and enforced to protect the populace.

In a truly free country, laws are ONLY made to protect people's RIGHTS. I don't think this includes LIMITING what they can consume. By doing so, the government doesn't protect our rights but instead becomes the violator of our rights.

No unaddicted person believes that nonsense about 'a victimless crime'.

Please prove to me how any drugs, on their own, can cause direct damage to anyone except for the user (2nd hand smoke not included, yes that harms others). I'd like to see you try.

 

[Fantasea]

In a truly free country, laws are ONLY made to protect people's RIGHTS. I don't think this includes LIMITING what they can consume. By doing so, the government doesn't protect our rights but instead becomes the violator of our rights.


Please prove to me how any drugs, on their own, can cause direct damage to anyone except for the user (2nd hand smoke not included, yes that harms others). I'd like to see you try.

I have provided examples and explanations on several occasions. Your response is always the same: deny, deny, deny. No rebuttal, simply: deny, deny, deny. No proof, simply: deny, deny, deny.

The next time you see a cop on the street, approach him, greet him, tell him that you believe that using drugs is a victimless crime. If he disagrees, ask him to tell you why.

Try it with a doctor, a school teacher, a clergyman, the parents of a 'user', and the children of a 'user'.

Who knows? Maybe they'll agree with you. Then, you can come back and tell me all about it.

 

[Gabo]

EVERY SINGLE example you provided was just a regular crime, but you tacked the drug using part onto it....

-users that CRASH CARS
-users that STEAL MONEY
-users that RAPE PEOPLE
-users that SHOOT PEOPLE

These people are the ones commiting the crimes. And the crimes they are commiting are those crimes. Them using drugs is just a title you slap onto their crime to make drugs look bad. Meanwhile, people are being put in jail for things like....

-consuming something
-buying something
-possessing something

None of these acts are crimes. Yet the politicians name them 'victimless crimes' when they indeed aren't crimes at all.

 

[Fantasea]

EVERY SINGLE example you provided was just a regular crime, but you tacked the drug using part onto it....

-users that CRASH CARS
-users that STEAL MONEY
-users that RAPE PEOPLE
-users that SHOOT PEOPLE

These people are the ones commiting the crimes. And the crimes they are commiting are those crimes. Them using drugs is just a title you slap onto their crime to make drugs look bad. Meanwhile, people are being put in jail for things like....

-consuming something
-buying something
-possessing something

None of these acts are crimes. Yet the politicians name them 'victimless crimes' when they indeed aren't crimes at all.

So does this mean that you won't be asking those folks I suggested for their opinion on the question of 'victimless crime'?

 

[Gabo]

So does this mean that you won't be asking those folks I suggested for their opinion on the question of 'victimless crime'?

I don't know any people who have been associated with victims of crimes where the person involved happened to be on drugs.

However, if i did, and assuming they were logical, rational people, I'm sure they would understand that the SHOOTING OF THE GUN was the crime involving a victim, and that consuming the drugs caused no harm to the victim.

 

[argexpat]

Careful now, too much spinning can cause socialist-lib-dem ideas to shake loose.

...from the fascist-neocon-rep stranglehold.

 

[argexpat]

So long as a person violates the law, punishment is warranted.

Only an authoritarian would make such a statement. When a law is unjust, it's our duty to break it. It's called civil disobience.

 

[Fantasea]

I don't know any people who have been associated with victims of crimes where the person involved happened to be on drugs.

However, if i did, and assuming they were logical, rational people, I'm sure they would understand that the SHOOTING OF THE GUN was the crime involving a victim, and that consuming the drugs caused no harm to the victim.

I don't know any astronauts, Jet pilots, or submarine commanders. Does this mean that they do not exist? Of course not. It simply means that I don't happen to know any.

You say, "I don't know any people who have been associated with victims of crimes where the person involved happened to be on drugs." Does this mean that they do not exist? Of course not. It simply means that you don't happen to know any.

To get some valid input on the question, let me suggest once more:

The next time you see a cop on the street, approach him, greet him, tell him that you believe that using drugs is a victimless crime. If he disagrees, ask him to tell you why.

Try it with a doctor, a school teacher, a clergyman, the parents of a 'user', and the children of a 'user'.

Who knows? Maybe they'll agree with you. Then, you can come back and tell me all about it.

 

[Gabo]

I don't know any astronauts, Jet pilots, or submarine commanders. Does this mean that they do not exist? Of course not. It simply means that I don't happen to know any.

You say, "I don't know any people who have been associated with victims of crimes where the person involved happened to be on drugs." Does this mean that they do not exist? Of course not. It simply means that you don't happen to know any.

Ummm... what I meant is that I just don't know any. I specifically showed what would happen if I did know some though...
"However, if i did, and assuming they were logical, rational people, I'm sure they would understand that the SHOOTING OF THE GUN was the crime involving a victim, and that consuming the drugs caused no harm to the victim."

 

[Fantasea]

Only an authoritarian would make such a statement. When a law is unjust, it's our duty to break it. It's called civil disobience.

Perhaps you would like to weigh in on the 'victimless crime' question.

My comments on the question are 'strung out' across half a dozen posts in this thread.

 

[Fantasea]

Ummm... what I meant is that I just don't know any. I specifically showed what would happen if I did know some though...
"However, if i did, and assuming they were logical, rational people, I'm sure they would understand that the SHOOTING OF THE GUN was the crime involving a victim, and that consuming the drugs caused no harm to the victim."

Good. Now that we have established that, what about my suggestion:

The next time you see a cop on the street, approach him, greet him, tell him that you believe that using drugs is a victimless crime. If he disagrees, ask him to tell you why.

Try it with a doctor, a school teacher, a clergyman, the parents of a 'user', and the children of a 'user'.

Who knows? Maybe they'll agree with you. Then, you can come back and tell me all about it.

 

[Gabo]

Good. Now that we have established that, what about my suggestion:

The next time you see a cop on the street, approach him, greet him, tell him that you believe that using drugs is a victimless crime. If he disagrees, ask him to tell you why.

Try it with a doctor, a school teacher, a clergyman, the parents of a 'user', and the children of a 'user'.

Who knows? Maybe they'll agree with you. Then, you can come back and tell me all about it.

Okay, I guess I'll do that then. But its not like it'll make much difference. Many people are so brainwashed into believing drugs are terrible and we must use FORCE to stop people from having them. And besides, enlightening a few cops, teachers, or parents won't do much to help change this problem.

I do what I can by informing everyone I know about the libertarian party and its ideals, including those about the failing, unwinnable war on drugs. I have not met a single person yet who hasn't realized the mistake of making drugs illegal.

 

[argexpat]

argepax,

I dont feel that we should legalize pot because I've lost too many amazing friends to that disgusting drug... Not only does it fry the mind & makes you stupid it can lead to harder drugs.

I want America's youth to be able to get a good education and actually care rather than going home everyday and smoking pot while thousands of brain cells fry...

I know that cigarettes are legalized, and trust me I'm not a Hypocrite. I dont think that cigarattes should be legal either... They are just as damaging as pot to me.

So because some people abuse drugs, I'm prohibited from enjoying them? And it's interesting that you didn't mention legal alcohol. Because some people are alcoholics, I shouldn't be able to enjoy a beer? As you know we tried that once, and it was an abysmal failure. How about these potheads and alcoholics show some restraint. And pot is also hemp, which is one of the most amazing natural resources known to man. Yet even industrial hemp, which has no psychotropic effects, and a million uses, can't be grown in this country. It's absurd.

P.S. When you say you "lost" your friends, do you mean they died from smoking pot, or did they just stop calling you because you're a buzzkill? :rock