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Man Charged With Desecrating the American Flag

Captain Adverse

Classical Liberal Sage
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So this happened in Illinois on the 4th of July.

A 22-year-old Illinois man has been charged with desecrating the American flag after he posted photos on Facebook along with messages decrying the state of violence and race in the U.S.. Police received numerous calls from citizens concerned about his safety and theirs. Mellott has been charged with Section 49-1, flag desecration, a class four felony in Illinois. He’s also been charged with disorderly conduct, both as an offender and a victim. The reason for both classifications is because police fielded calls from people making threatening calls against Mellott while he himself committed an act that was “causing others to be put at risk of harm.” Flag burning is not technically illegal in the U.S. According to the 1989 ruling in Texas v. Johnson, the American “flag is so revered because it represents the land of the free, and that freedom includes the ability to use or abuse that flag in protest.”

Forbes Welcome

I raise this issue to bring up two points:

1. This is a perfect example showing people why posting on Facebook (or any other social media) in not always in one's best interests.

2. Notice that the charges include both desecration, which under Texas v. Johnson 491 U.S. 397 (1989) cannot be made illegal by itself; and disorderly conduct which might fall under the Texas V. Johnson clarification allowing charges for the narrow government interest of preventing "flag burnings that were likely to result in a serious disturbance of the peace." https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/491/397/case.html

I don't agree with this arrest if it was based solely on reactions to a Facebook post. However, there might be some small basis if calls came in from neighbors who saw him doing this in his neighborhood. But even then it was on his own private property, done apparently for the purpose of posting on his Facebook page to express his opinion, and not to incite violence. That clearly falls under First Amendment protections explained in Texas v. Johnson, since the target audience was that small fraction of the total U.S. population who are his "followers."

Yes it is the 4th of July. Yes, many Americans feel that the symbolism of the Flag should allow legal protection against desecration. Yes, people will get upset as a result.

Still, IMO it is his personal property once purchased and he can wear it, or burn it, or fly it, and it's none of our business.

My pride rests in the Nation, not in it's symbols.

When I was a soldier I would gladly defend our garrison flag from all comers. Because in that instance it clearly represented the symbol of our nation in that spot, at that time, and by extension my right to be there to serve my nation's interests. It was my job to protect it.

A common citizen's handling of their own property is not the same thing, and I support their First Amendment right to use it to express themselves howsoever they will.
 
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It does seem odd that he is arrested for this. The flag burning in itself is both logically and apparently legally questionable as an offence and if the statement quoted in the article is all he posted (and surely they would have quoted anything worse), it strikes me as extremely mild.

I hope there is a little more to this, maybe in the aspect that he was being treated as a victim of threats as much as an offender himself. If this is symbolic of some underlying issue then this would hopefully be a trigger for his getting help and support. If it’s just a guy having a bit of a silly rant online, wouldn’t all of us here be at risk of arrest too?
 
I am a hypocrite and I know it............. when it comes to flag denigration.

The first amendment should be treasured and protected by all means necessary.

The miscreants who publicly denigrate the flag deserve a good azz whooping. (hence my hypocrisy)

The "Stars and Bars" is being removed from public places because it stirs emotional reactions of racism, anger, and humiliation. I get it!

To many millions of people, the Red White and Blue represents the ones that came before us. It also represents the ones that have fallen and died.

The military hands the flag to the widow during the closing of a military funeral for a reason.

Hence my hypocrisy.
 
So this happened in Illinois on the 4th of July.



Forbes Welcome

I raise this issue to bring up two

<snip>
I'm completely against his arrest & charges!

He has every first amendment right to do what he did, no matter how offensive others may feel. If you're offended, tough tootsies; this is exactly the type of unpopular speech the 1st is intended to protect!

What a bunch of pansies we've become! :doh
 
I'm completely against his arrest & charges!

He has every first amendment right to do what he did, no matter how offensive others may feel. If you're offended, tough tootsies; this is exactly the type of unpopular speech the 1st is intended to protect!

What a bunch of pansies we've become! :doh

Absolutely right!

People need to stop feeling offensive! :)
 
I am a hypocrite and I know it............. when it comes to flag denigration.

The first amendment should be treasured and protected by all means necessary.

The miscreants who publicly denigrate the flag deserve a good azz whooping. (hence my hypocrisy)

The "Stars and Bars" is being removed from public places because it stirs emotional reactions of racism, anger, and humiliation. I get it!

To many millions of people, the Red White and Blue represents the ones that came before us. It also represents the ones that have fallen and died.

The military hands the flag to the widow during the closing of a military funeral for a reason.

Hence my hypocrisy.

Can you have it that desicrating a funeral or verterains parrade etc. is off limits and the punishment for anybody punching somebody doing so will be a $5 fine. But otherwise it's your freedom to be an ass?
 
He picked a great day to make an ass of himself. Don't give him more credit than he deserves.
We are asked to respect......, sadly often by those who deserve none. Yet those of us who have integrity, do so regardless.
 
So this happened in Illinois on the 4th of July.



Forbes Welcome

I raise this issue to bring up two points:

1. This is a perfect example showing people why posting on Facebook (or any other social media) in not always in one's best interests.

2. Notice that the charges include both desecration, which under Texas v. Johnson 491 U.S. 397 (1989) cannot be made illegal by itself; and disorderly conduct which might fall under the Texas V. Johnson clarification allowing charges for the narrow government interest of preventing "flag burnings that were likely to result in a serious disturbance of the peace." https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/491/397/case.html

I don't agree with this arrest if it was based solely on reactions to a Facebook post. However, there might be some small basis if calls came in from neighbors who saw him doing this in his neighborhood. But even then it was on his own private property, done apparently for the purpose of posting on his Facebook page to express his opinion, and not to incite violence. That clearly falls under First Amendment protections explained in Texas v. Johnson, since the target audience was that small fraction of the total U.S. population who are his "followers."

Yes it is the 4th of July. Yes, many Americans feel that the symbolism of the Flag should allow legal protection against desecration. Yes, people will get upset as a result.

Still, IMO it is his personal property once purchased and he can wear it, or burn it, or fly it, and it's none of our business.

My pride rests in the Nation, not in it's symbols.

When I was a soldier I would gladly defend our garrison flag from all comers. Because in that instance it clearly represented the symbol of our nation in that spot, at that time, and by extension my right to be there to serve my nation's interests. It was my job to protect it.

A common citizen's handling of their own property is not the same thing, and I support their First Amendment right to use it to express themselves howsoever they will.

I tend to agree that such behavior is covered by the Constitution and protected.
 
I'm completely against his arrest & charges!

He has every first amendment right to do what he did, no matter how offensive others may feel. If you're offended, tough tootsies; this is exactly the type of unpopular speech the 1st is intended to protect!

What a bunch of pansies we've become! :doh

Funny! You might be onto something there. ;)
 
So this happened in Illinois on the 4th of July.



Forbes Welcome

I raise this issue to bring up two points:

1. This is a perfect example showing people why posting on Facebook (or any other social media) in not always in one's best interests.

2. Notice that the charges include both desecration, which under Texas v. Johnson 491 U.S. 397 (1989) cannot be made illegal by itself; and disorderly conduct which might fall under the Texas V. Johnson clarification allowing charges for the narrow government interest of preventing "flag burnings that were likely to result in a serious disturbance of the peace." https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/491/397/case.html

I don't agree with this arrest if it was based solely on reactions to a Facebook post. However, there might be some small basis if calls came in from neighbors who saw him doing this in his neighborhood. But even then it was on his own private property, done apparently for the purpose of posting on his Facebook page to express his opinion, and not to incite violence. That clearly falls under First Amendment protections explained in Texas v. Johnson, since the target audience was that small fraction of the total U.S. population who are his "followers."

Yes it is the 4th of July. Yes, many Americans feel that the symbolism of the Flag should allow legal protection against desecration. Yes, people will get upset as a result.

Still, IMO it is his personal property once purchased and he can wear it, or burn it, or fly it, and it's none of our business.

My pride rests in the Nation, not in it's symbols.

When I was a soldier I would gladly defend our garrison flag from all comers. Because in that instance it clearly represented the symbol of our nation in that spot, at that time, and by extension my right to be there to serve my nation's interests. It was my job to protect it.

A common citizen's handling of their own property is not the same thing, and I support their First Amendment right to use it to express themselves howsoever they will.

Seems wrong that someone could be convicted of a felony for burning our flag on his own property. I'm thinking charges will be dismissed in this particular case. Seems clear from what you've said that he was making a statement...not burning it in public to incite violence. Seems like an oxymoron to charge the guy for burning a flag that represents personal freedom.

Facebook. The cause of many of life's problems.
 
The act of burning the flag is a sign of dissent against the state and all forms of political dissent must treated as an act of treason, all rights and/or privileges this person once had became null and void once this act of treason was committed against the nation. This act was designed to destabilize the nation and put the lives of all its citizens in danger. Therefore this act of treason constitutes an act of terrorism as well and should be treated as such.

All parties found in support of this terrorist act must be held accountable, and be brought to justice. Including but not limited too, members of the press, legal defense, and any of the terrorists fellow saboteurs. His family must be investigated as enemies of state and held indefinitely until investigators can confirm their loyalty to the state. This terrorist and his collaborators must be sentenced to death immediately to prevent further acts of terrorism and/or treason against the state.

The lives of every citizen of this once great nation depends on it.
 
I'm completely against his arrest & charges!

He has every first amendment right to do what he did, no matter how offensive others may feel. If you're offended, tough tootsies; this is exactly the type of unpopular speech the 1st is intended to protect!

What a bunch of pansies we've become! :doh

Funny! You might be onto something there. ;)
I don't *do* "pansy"! :2razz:
 
The act of burning the flag is a sign of dissent against the state and all forms of political dissent must treated as an act of treason, all rights and/or privileges this person once had became null and void once this act of treason was committed against the nation. This act was designed to destabilize the nation and put the lives of all its citizens in danger. Therefore this act of treason constitutes an act of terrorism as well and should be treated as such.

All parties found in support of this terrorist act must be held accountable, and be brought to justice. Including but not limited too, members of the press, legal defense, and any of the terrorists fellow saboteurs. His family must be investigated as enemies of state and held indefinitely until investigators can confirm their loyalty to the state. This terrorist and his collaborators must be sentenced to death immediately to prevent further acts of terrorism and/or treason against the state.

The lives of every citizen of this once great nation depends on it.
Geebus, you make Communists look moderate! :doh

Nope, nope, disagree completely - this 1A expression is nowhere akin to treason, nor do I believe the act is criminal, misdemeanor or other.

I'd personally like this country to take a *mild* tack to social support in a few select issues like healthcare and education, but no way am I buying what you're selling! :shock:
 
I don't *do* "pansy"! :2razz:

Are you sure that saying that is politically correct??? But at least you smiled and didn't wink.
 
The act of burning the flag is a sign of dissent against the state and all forms of political dissent must treated as an act of treason, all rights and/or privileges this person once had became null and void once this act of treason was committed against the nation. This act was designed to destabilize the nation and put the lives of all its citizens in danger. Therefore this act of treason constitutes an act of terrorism as well and should be treated as such.

All parties found in support of this terrorist act must be held accountable, and be brought to justice. Including but not limited too, members of the press, legal defense, and any of the terrorists fellow saboteurs. His family must be investigated as enemies of state and held indefinitely until investigators can confirm their loyalty to the state. This terrorist and his collaborators must be sentenced to death immediately to prevent further acts of terrorism and/or treason against the state.

The lives of every citizen of this once great nation depends on it.

This is sarcasm, right?
 
Seems wrong that someone could be convicted of a felony for burning our flag on his own property. I'm thinking charges will be dismissed in this particular case. Seems clear from what you've said that he was making a statement...not burning it in public to incite violence. Seems like an oxymoron to charge the guy for burning a flag that represents personal freedom.

Facebook. The cause of many of life's problems.
:lamo

I'm extremely proud to say I have neither a Facebook nor Twitter account! I'm reasonably tech savvy & tech involved, but see no reason to put my personal stuff out in the world. One it's out - it's out! What looks fun & good at 19 when in college, might not look so good at 32 when you're a working professional or business owner with a wife & kids!

I'm happy to let the world go flying by on this one ...
 
Are you sure that saying that is politically correct??? But at least you smiled and didn't wink.
That emoticon is a 'sticking out of the tongue' "razz".

It is in effect a 'taunt'! :thumbs:

:2razz:
 
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