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Malaria drug given to Service Members gives PTSD-like symptoms.

Fishking

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Not really shocking to me. My fellow Service Members know we've always been used to experiment on or subjected to lower quality care. I got to also have the luck of getting some anthrax vaccinations that weren't approved by the FDA and then they pulled giving it to us. On the upside, this particular drug made me feel so crappy that I only took it about two times and decided I'd rather run the risk of getting actual malaria.

It could be worse, though. I didn't have to sit in a trench and be exposed to nuclear explosions like my brothers in the past did.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...0ZmRec0ecIhgvbJb75gTsoiiVWfNepolBMY3jUt7ykX8o

The case of a service member diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder but found instead to have brain damage caused by a malaria drug raises questions about the origin of similar symptoms in other post-9/11 veterans.

According to the case study published online in Drug Safety Case Reports in June, a U.S. military member sought treatment at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland, for uncontrolled anger, insomnia, nightmares and memory loss.

The once-active sailor, who ran marathons and deployed in 2009 to East Africa, reported stumbling frequently, arguing with his family and needing significant support from his staff while on the job due to cognitive issues.

It wasn’t until physicians took a hard look at his medical history, which included vertigo that began two months after his Africa deployment, that they suspected mefloquine poisoning: The medication once used widely by the U.S. armed forces to prevent and treat malaria has been linked to brain stem lesions and psychiatric symptoms."

Wonder if the government will ever thread those in the military ethically.
 

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This isn’t anything new sadly, Canadian news ran a story awhile ago about the side effects, I asked a veteran friend of mine who had been in the CF and deployed where they had to take it in the 90s.

Yeah he didn’t wanna talk about this drug very much but I could see in his reaction that it must have been every bit as bad as they say.
 

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Not really shocking to me. My fellow Service Members know we've always been used to experiment on or subjected to lower quality care. I got to also have the luck of getting some anthrax vaccinations that weren't approved by the FDA and then they pulled giving it to us. On the upside, this particular drug made me feel so crappy that I only took it about two times and decided I'd rather run the risk of getting actual malaria.

It could be worse, though. I didn't have to sit in a trench and be exposed to nuclear explosions like my brothers in the past did.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...0ZmRec0ecIhgvbJb75gTsoiiVWfNepolBMY3jUt7ykX8o



Wonder if the government will ever thread those in the military ethically.

My husband has been active duty for almost 20 years and has taken that drug before while down range. Thankfully, like you, he's not very compliant. He's had to start taking medication daily and has to use one of those pill organizers. They remind me of my grandma. :lamo

But, seriously, this is effed up.
 

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It could be worse, though. I didn't have to sit in a trench and be exposed to nuclear explosions like my brothers in the past did.

Hey, they gave them sunglasses to wear. Geesh.

I remember at the completion of boot camp in 1970 there was a person who went around to all the units looking for volunteers for the military medical research team. You would spend 6 months I believe with them and at the completion you could have your pick of military training and assignment. Not a single hand in my unit put their hand up.
 

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The damn government ****ing over those that give the most! I find it despicable. Remember the LSD experiments?

There's so many times I thought of serving, but the thought of giving the government absolute control of my life scared me off. It wasn't fear over the prospect of doing battle or making the grade, but fear over the government controlling me.

And these things like in the OP do nothing to quell that fear. In fact, the older I get the more I distrust. Which really sucks, because it makes me feel unpatriotic. And that's a bad feeling to have.
 

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I remember in Afghanistan one of our guys got malaria and was demoted and given an article 15 because that meant he wasn't taking his mefloquine every day. It was literally forced upon us. Luckily I was terrible at reliably taking pills and missed a lot. The vivid nightmares and other side effects connected to it were well known by all of us at the time.
 

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Hey, they gave them sunglasses to wear. Geesh.

I remember at the completion of boot camp in 1970 there was a person who went around to all the units looking for volunteers for the military medical research team. You would spend 6 months I believe with them and at the completion you could have your pick of military training and assignment. Not a single hand in my unit put their hand up.

This post gave me chills!
 

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This isn’t anything new sadly, Canadian news ran a story awhile ago about the side effects, I asked a veteran friend of mine who had been in the CF and deployed where they had to take it in the 90s.

Yeah he didn’t wanna talk about this drug very much but I could see in his reaction that it must have been every bit as bad as they say.

The military has long experimented with drugs on soldiers and sailors. The Tuskegee Airmen were deliberately given syphilis as an experiment.

We were supposed to take an anti-malarial drug in Vietnam, but I can't recall the name. I don't think it was this mefloquine.
 

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The damn government ****ing over those that give the most! I find it despicable. Remember the LSD experiments?

There's so many times I thought of serving, but the thought of giving the government absolute control of my life scared me off. It wasn't fear over the prospect of doing battle or making the grade, but fear over the government controlling me.

And these things like in the OP do nothing to quell that fear. In fact, the older I get the more I distrust. Which really sucks, because it makes me feel unpatriotic. And that's a bad feeling to have.

You don't have to feel unpatriotic, and your fears/concerns are valid. It's part of it that many of us just kinda learn to accept, even though it's actually kind of outrageous. But going back to patriotism and service, I understand that desire, it's the reason I originally joined.

There are many ways to serve in a related capacity. There are many who are part of a care package program where people send stuff from home to those deployed. I know I appreciated it when that happened. It's not needed though. I'm just glad that our service these days are separated from the politics of it all, for the most part, unlike in Vietnam where those who returned were subjected to abuse.

Also, (for me this is a big one) we need to be more sober in what we deem are conflicts that are worth sacrificing our lives for. Today I see two war parties and they want to use us for any conflict they can think of in the world. I see my brothers and sisters dying in areas and doing missions that have no discernable or accomplishable goal. Don't support the Forever Wars.
 

Fishking

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I remember in Afghanistan one of our guys got malaria and was demoted and given an article 15 because that meant he wasn't taking his mefloquine every day. It was literally forced upon us. Luckily I was terrible at reliably taking pills and missed a lot. The vivid nightmares and other side effects connected to it were well known by all of us at the time.

Yup...that was bull****. He should find and keep the paperwork on that and use that for a lawsuit now, or something, if he's now a civilian. Not sure if a case can be made, though, because there are limits placed on lawsuits for those who have served.
 

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It's deplorable that some aspects of the military no longer even have the caliber of equipment they used to have for doing their jobs properly. It's worse that we'll cut the military budget but then let the private sector profit off of experimenting on soldiers while possibly causing permanent damage to their bodies.

Soldiers should always be told if they're being given experimental or high risk drugs and having the results monitored. The problem is, if they decide to not ask for your consent then you can't disobey the order.
 

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You don't have to feel unpatriotic, and your fears/concerns are valid. It's part of it that many of us just kinda learn to accept, even though it's actually kind of outrageous. But going back to patriotism and service, I understand that desire, it's the reason I originally joined.

There are many ways to serve in a related capacity. There are many who are part of a care package program where people send stuff from home to those deployed. I know I appreciated it when that happened. It's not needed though. I'm just glad that our service these days are separated from the politics of it all, for the most part, unlike in Vietnam where those who returned were subjected to abuse.

Also, (for me this is a big one) we need to be more sober in what we deem are conflicts that are worth sacrificing our lives for. Today I see two war parties and they want to use us for any conflict they can think of in the world. I see my brothers and sisters dying in areas and doing missions that have no discernable or accomplishable goal. Don't support the Forever Wars.

It is always easy to start a war when it isn't your son or daughter doing the fighting.


Very few of those in power have that experience of watching your son or daughter fly off to join the military. That my friend is sobering.
 

Fishking

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The military has long experimented with drugs on soldiers and sailors. The Tuskegee Airmen were deliberately given syphilis as an experiment.

We were supposed to take an anti-malarial drug in Vietnam, but I can't recall the name. I don't think it was this mefloquine.

That's double bad luck in falling into two groups the government liked to experiment on, the military and black people. The various segregated black units that have existed in the past are, imo, among the most honorable and self-sacrificing that we've ever had. They did it for a country that oppressed them and still didn't accept them.
 

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It's deplorable that some aspects of the military no longer even have the caliber of equipment they used to have for doing their jobs properly. It's worse that we'll cut the military budget but then let the private sector profit off of experimenting on soldiers while possibly causing permanent damage to their bodies.

Soldiers should always be told if they're being given experimental or high risk drugs and having the results monitored. The problem is, if they decide to not ask for your consent then you can't disobey the order.

Yeah...we weren't allowed to refuse. Fortunately, with the pills, they just gave a bunch of them out and never tracked if they were ever taken.
 

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That's double bad luck in falling into two groups the government liked to experiment on, the military and black people. The various segregated black units that have existed in the past are, imo, among the most honorable and self-sacrificing that we've ever had. They did it for a country that oppressed them and still didn't accept them.

So true!

I cannot remember where I saw it, but there were old black & white films taken of US aircraft flying low alongside US Navy vessels, spraying some chemical or drug to see what effect it would have on the sailors.
 

beerftw

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Not really shocking to me. My fellow Service Members know we've always been used to experiment on or subjected to lower quality care. I got to also have the luck of getting some anthrax vaccinations that weren't approved by the FDA and then they pulled giving it to us. On the upside, this particular drug made me feel so crappy that I only took it about two times and decided I'd rather run the risk of getting actual malaria.

It could be worse, though. I didn't have to sit in a trench and be exposed to nuclear explosions like my brothers in the past did.

https://www.militarytimes.com/news/...mRec0ecIhgvbJb75gTsoiiVW fNepolBMY3jUt7ykX8o



Wonder if the government will ever thread those in the military ethically.

I was deployed in 2010-2011 and was given a malaria drug without prescription, not sure if it was the same but probably was. I myself only took it the first week then stopped, there were no mosquitos in camp marmal, it was very dry there and rain was extremely rare and when it did hit it flooded things, but never enough to have mosquitos around, now nearby fobs closer the marmal mountains got plenty of em, as the rain would hit on and near the mountains, leaving them a more favoreable evironment.





Fyi I remember that flood I was on guard duty that day at the ecp, but that was far and few inbetween most the year was bone dry. Also there scarab beetles would drop from the sky when it rained. Long story short malaria was not our biggest concerns, it was an old soviet base converted for us nato and isaf use, and there were rediculous amounts of lead and mercury in the soil. All of us had wierd violent dreams over there and night terrors that ended when leaving country, I found out from the airforce the area was toxic from what the soviets left, and lead and mercury in dust being breathed in can cause those symptoms.
 

Fishking

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I was deployed in 2010-2011 and was given a malaria drug without prescription, not sure if it was the same but probably was. I myself only took it the first week then stopped, there were no mosquitos in camp marmal, it was very dry there and rain was extremely rare and when it did hit it flooded things, but never enough to have mosquitos around, now nearby fobs closer the marmal mountains got plenty of em, as the rain would hit on and near the mountains, leaving them a more favoreable evironment.

Lol...we had our system in a bunker that was half in the ground, half out. The cinder block walls weren't made very well and when the rainy season came we ended up bailing water out as fast as we could while also digging trenches around our bunker to direct the water away. Our system was only as high off the floor as a pallet, and the water got very close.

Good times...good times.
 

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You don't have to feel unpatriotic, and your fears/concerns are valid. It's part of it that many of us just kinda learn to accept, even though it's actually kind of outrageous. But going back to patriotism and service, I understand that desire, it's the reason I originally joined.

There are many ways to serve in a related capacity. There are many who are part of a care package program where people send stuff from home to those deployed. I know I appreciated it when that happened. It's not needed though. I'm just glad that our service these days are separated from the politics of it all, for the most part, unlike in Vietnam where those who returned were subjected to abuse.

Also, (for me this is a big one) we need to be more sober in what we deem are conflicts that are worth sacrificing our lives for. Today I see two war parties and they want to use us for any conflict they can think of in the world. I see my brothers and sisters dying in areas and doing missions that have no discernable or accomplishable goal. Don't support the Forever Wars.
Well thanks much for the kind words here, FishKing! :thumbs:

Yeah, it's not like my not serving is a huge overhanging life-changing regret. But for some reason as I get older, it's one of those things that gives me some regret that seems to grow. It's always there. Especially when I'm in the company of vets. This especially hit home when my son was considering serving, as one of his post H.S. options.

But I like your idea of doing something related, and never thought of it. So I've made my mind up to do something this year, and - believe it or not - I feel a little better already. Besides, for some reason I've always gotten along well with vets (& cops!). So maybe I'll get the opportunity to run elbows with some good guys, whose company I like.

I've got to say your comment concerning concerning the 'Nam experience, is an especially poignant one for me. I just barely missed 'Nam, and fully remember the bull**** that followed. We've got to remember the kids going to 'Nam were working-class, rural, and immigrant kids. Kids whose fathers, uncles, and grandfathers fought in Korea and the Big One. They went over in patriotism with a sense of duty, just like their elder relatives went before them. In my neighborhood, many were the sons of Polish immigrants whose families had lived through WW-II in Europe, and remembered America saving the world as we then knew it. They gladly went over to give-back, and to continue to participate and move forward our great democratic experiment!

It was the kids from the better neighborhoods and suburbs, the ones from families that could afford their university tuition, that largely made-up the anti-war movement. And when the blue-collar patriotic boys came back to meet the suburban university anti-war guys, all hell broke out! It was hell. Truly. The anti-war crowd guys thought they were the real patriots by showing the courage in refusing to go, and by burning their draft cards risking prison. Obviously, the blue-collar boys that just served felt they were the real patriots. In addition, some of the 'Nam guys were trying to come to grips with whether Nixon & their government had deceived or used them.

I swear the scene in the corner bars in my neighborhood was bad news for the entire early seventies. The conflict between the "freaks" and vets was continuous, and often enough became violent. And the use of "baby killers", the ultimate anti-war slur, was used far too much and always provoked the violence that seemed to be desired.

I was strongly anti-war, grew my hair, and mostly hung with the college crowd once I started going to college myself. But my working-class roots and ethnic heritage was too strong, and when the **** was getting ready to hit the fan in those bars, I tried to stand in the middle in defense of the vets. I couldn't stand what the college kids were doing to them, even though they genuinely believed the vets were cowards by their not staying home resisting and "fighting" against the war.

Anyway, thanks for bringing back some old memories. They're not good memories, but they're real and they give perspective. Wow! What a mess it was!

(Thanks for reading, if you got this far!)
 

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(Thanks for reading, if you got this far!)

I read it all...I'm not old enough to have experienced/seen that first hand (only 40) but I've seen vids and read about it. The poor always die for the rich, that's just how it's always been. I'm glad we've mostly moved past that, for the most part.

Took courage for you to step in and mediate during that time, it's always hard to do that. That means something too.
 

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I read it all...I'm not old enough to have experienced/seen that first hand (only 40) but I've seen vids and read about it. The poor always die for the rich, that's just how it's always been. I'm glad we've mostly moved past that, for the most part.

Took courage for you to step in and mediate during that time, it's always hard to do that. That means something too.
Well thanks.

My thing, is that I was one of those guys with working-class roots, but on campus getting an education in an effort to move-up in the world. So I had a foot in both worlds. And like I said, many of the guys in my neighborhood were the kids of Polish immigrants. The often weren't world-wise or educated, and sometimes pretty poor. I hate to use the term "niave", but in many cases their parents were new in the country and extremely uneducated. So yeah, some of them naively went off to fight because of their over-riding desire to continue advancing their families through the American dream and process, not knowing what they were getting into. Plus they needed the VA benefits, which could get them an education and a house; things their families couldn't provide.

Essentially they were often good guys who were not the most world aware, but were trying to do the right thing for their family and country. No way was I going to let my newfound college crowd beat on them or kick them like dogs with their words. But straight-up, in conflict the college kids were good with words, but the vets were often pretty damn good with their hands! Those stereotypes of the quiet, brooding Viet Nam vet at the end of the bar - who's best left alone, were indeed sometimes true.

In response to the free-wheeling bar scene, some vets simply preferred the solace of the VFW hall, which were places that were absolutely non-grata to non-vets with long hair or wearing anything "peace" related. I had to leave one time due to a long-haired buddy of mine wearing a jean jacket with a small peace-sign patch on the arm, where a military insignia would otherwise be on a service jacket. Besides the peace-symbol, the vets weren't too keen on our long hair ether. Not at all.

Somebody should do a book or movie on this stuff again, from this perspective. There's so much material here. Much of it poignant.
 

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Lol...we had our system in a bunker that was half in the ground, half out. The cinder block walls weren't made very well and when the rainy season came we ended up bailing water out as fast as we could while also digging trenches around our bunker to direct the water away. Our system was only as high off the floor as a pallet, and the water got very close.

Good times...good times.

My tent that day was dry, but a few weeks earlier me and a few other soldiers started digging trenches with e-tools and stacking sand bags in a tight pattern a few feet high on the sides. Outside my row everyone looked at us like we were retarded, but I was taught to set cap in favorable terrain, and if that is not possible to make the terrain favorable to the camp. About 4 or 5 tents down from mine did the same and the rest did not, I also had my ps3 and tv on a tuff box and not on the ground like many others did. Sucked for them to see their tents flooded and their electronics destroyed, while the soldiers who took initiative came out ahead.
 

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The military has long experimented with drugs on soldiers and sailors. The Tuskegee Airmen were deliberately given syphilis as an experiment.

We were supposed to take an anti-malarial drug in Vietnam, but I can't recall the name. I don't think it was this mefloquine.

No. Just no.

The Tuskegee Experiment was civilians giving syphilis to civilians...
 
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