• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Make the Negro Leagues Major League

Dan McLaughlin at National Review says, "It’s the right move, but how to handle the statistical records is a difficult problem." Negro League’s Major League Designation Is the Right Move | National Review

Those who love baseball will enjoy the historical lore and analysis.

Bit of trivia. In 1966, Satchel Page pitched a single inning (long after his otherwise retirement), so he could qualify for a baseball pension that would have otherwise been denied him because he was in the Negro League. He also was the first Negro league player inducted into the hall of fame in 1971
 
Isn’t this akin to trying to fix history?
 
Isn’t this akin to trying to fix history?

There are a number of professional leagues that produce major league caliber players. Leagues in Puerto Rico, the Caribbean in general, Mexico, Central and South America, Japan, Taiwan and Korea all produce significant numbers of MLB quality players. Those leagues, however, are not on a par with MLB. The Negro leagues fall into this category.

When we're talking about top tier athletes of any stripe the differences between "major league" and "other" are generally measured in hundredths of a second, one hit a week, ability to maintain that mental edge for a couple of seconds longer than the other guy, etc. In that regard the secondary leagues simply can't compete with the major leagues. They don't have the resources to do so. My grandfather used to complain about this kind of thing all the time. He had a jazz orchestra in Manhattan in the 40s and he constantly complained that as soon as he picked up someone "next level" along would come Basie or Goodman or Dorsey and off that talent would go. Sports leagues have the same issues and because of that your top players in the second tier leagues are constantly playing more games against third tier players and that boosts their stats.

Besides all that, Baseball has two primary components. The first is the statistical component. The part that can be measured is hugely important. The other major component, however, is the mythical or "what if" component. That's every bit as big as the statistical component because the nature of competition is that there is never a "best", there is only a "best at this time and under these circumstances". The AL and NL have a long history of statistics while the Negro leagues have a long history of "what if". MLB NEEDS that "what if" factor standing next to it just so its head doesn't get too big and it doesn't get too full of itself.
 
There are a number of professional leagues that produce major league caliber players. Leagues in Puerto Rico, the Caribbean in general, Mexico, Central and South America, Japan, Taiwan and Korea all produce significant numbers of MLB quality players. Those leagues, however, are not on a par with MLB. The Negro leagues fall into this category.

When we're talking about top tier athletes of any stripe the differences between "major league" and "other" are generally measured in hundredths of a second, one hit a week, ability to maintain that mental edge for a couple of seconds longer than the other guy, etc. In that regard the secondary leagues simply can't compete with the major leagues. They don't have the resources to do so. My grandfather used to complain about this kind of thing all the time. He had a jazz orchestra in Manhattan in the 40s and he constantly complained that as soon as he picked up someone "next level" along would come Basie or Goodman or Dorsey and off that talent would go. Sports leagues have the same issues and because of that your top players in the second tier leagues are constantly playing more games against third tier players and that boosts their stats.

Besides all that, Baseball has two primary components. The first is the statistical component. The part that can be measured is hugely important. The other major component, however, is the mythical or "what if" component. That's every bit as big as the statistical component because the nature of competition is that there is never a "best", there is only a "best at this time and under these circumstances". The AL and NL have a long history of statistics while the Negro leagues have a long history of "what if". MLB NEEDS that "what if" factor standing next to it just so its head doesn't get too big and it doesn't get too full of itself.


Nice post, but I’m not sure it addresses my question.
 
we let the first black player into one of our major sports leagues in 1947. he received death threats for the next 10 years (until he retired). those that followed received death threats as well.


that means that current white Americans (that certainly "could" have been the ones calling in the death threats or were certainly AGAINST integration in sports) are now between the ages of 58 and 100.



let that sink in.
 
Nice post, but I’m not sure it addresses my question.

Well, in a lot of cases one person's "fix" is another's "willful destruction".

Basically, I don't think an attempt to equalize the Negro League with MLB is necessary or proper. They are what they are and you can't really make them the same.
 
Well, in a lot of cases one person's "fix" is another's "willful destruction".

Basically, I don't think an attempt to equalize the Negro League with MLB is necessary or proper. They are what they are and you can't really make them the same.

That was kinda what I was getting at??
 
I wasn't arguing with you. I was just answering your question.

I am in no way an MLB fan; my missus grew up in a baseball family and usually watches and tells me about strategy and other nuances that I cannot see. I share the opinions that I have heard that the Negro League would have given Major Leagues a decent game.
 
In the 20th century we have a history of segregation that started with Woodrow Wilson in the Progressive Era. It was a slap in the face for all the men that fought in the Civil war for equality that gave their lives for the cause and others who lived the rest of their lives unable to care for themselves. According to Booker T. Washington, over 5000 black persons had been elected to office after the Civil War from mayor to congressmen prior to Woodrow Wilson. But along came Woodrow Wilson, an elite racist that brought forth segregation in the Federal government. He did not allow people of color to work in the same offices as whites. He segregated our military. Did I mention this asshole was a Democrat? His writings also portray him to be a socialist but that is for another thread.

From there everything went downhill. The Civil War was for not in many parts of the country. Segregated military, federal government and evidently baseball teams that started in 1920 during Wilson's reign.

It has taken too long to make right Wilson's wrongs but since we elected a black president twice. Our military is no longer segregated, nor are our federal buildings. Civil rights legislation was passed in the 60's even though the government was pretty much run by Democrats it took Republicans in the minority to get it passed.
 
In the 20th century we have a history of segregation that started with Woodrow Wilson in the Progressive Era. It was a slap in the face for all the men that fought in the Civil war for equality that gave their lives for the cause and others who lived the rest of their lives unable to care for themselves. According to Booker T. Washington, over 5000 black persons had been elected to office after the Civil War from mayor to congressmen prior to Woodrow Wilson. But along came Woodrow Wilson, an elite racist that brought forth segregation in the Federal government. He did not allow people of color to work in the same offices as whites. He segregated our military. Did I mention this asshole was a Democrat? His writings also portray him to be a socialist but that is for another thread.

From there everything went downhill. The Civil War was for not in many parts of the country. Segregated military, federal government and evidently baseball teams that started in 1920 during Wilson's reign.

It has taken too long to make right Wilson's wrongs but since we elected a black president twice. Our military is no longer segregated, nor are our federal buildings. Civil rights legislation was passed in the 60's even though the government was pretty much run by Democrats it took Republicans in the minority to get it passed.

Nice of you to inject politics into a sports thread that has little to do with politics..

Anyway the segregation started right after the reconstruction(around 1877) failed. Then the Southern States passed laws that barred Blacks from voting and segregated schools, restaurants, etc...

After 200+ years of treating their slaves as inferiors, the South wasn't willing to treat the newly freed slaves as equals.
 
Back
Top Bottom