Majority of Americans do not want The Wall.

[ecofarm]

ROFLMAO, the shortcut was if your skipper forced you to eat a chum sandwich.

After a few months, I no longer got seasick. Decades later, crossing the Baltic a stormy night, I was the only passenger on the ferry unaffected by swaying.

 

[Lursa]

I've been hearing that refrain from those opposed to it since the whole hubbub started. Mainly from Democrats. It's become a mantra by now.

So, I have a question for those that state this.

Where were you when the majority of American's did not want Obamacare, in particular the mandate?

Of course don't think that the hypocrisy shown by Democrats on this issue is based solely on the Democrats side. Republicans are just as guilty. When the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare Republicans were going around saying the same mantra. When it comes to The Wall Republicans are ignoring that little aspect just as Democrats ignored it for Obamacare.

This just shows one of the many reasons that Party Ideology is a hazard to this country and why I wish to God that Americans would stop voting for Party and start looking at and voting on the Issues.

Why are you comparing Obamacare to this conflict over the wall? Please tell me what common points you see beyond the fact that the support for each is/was very partisan?

Also, as a Dem, I was very against the ACA and was vocal about that. And I've continued to be so here.

 

[marke]

We owed them the money, and the reason for cash was that because of sanctions, frozen bank accounts, we cannot send them money any other way.

(NYT)


WTFU and turn off Fox & Friends.

Obama broke the 2012 federal law that gave the money to the victims of Iranian terror. There was no more money left to give Iran under that law. The Supreme Court upheld that law on April, 20, 20126.

 

[tres borrachos]

<tres post>







There's no way to copy/paste it all without filling most of the next page. I guess I'll just have to hope that anyone who actually cares enough to use ">>" will see that the thread was Kal'Stang's attempt to use opposition to the stupid useless wall to call his "other side" hypocrites by way of a [censored] comparison to passage of the ACA and alleged knowledge about what it would accomplish. You hugged the dishonestly snipped portion of what Pelosi said. Tres was pointing out that the ACA was being sold as one thing and in fact did it to a large extent, and then....





And that's where I came in. Pray don't complain that I didn't copy/paste the rest of the exchange. Anyone using the ">>" arrows can see that you next move was saying you don't support the wall but was pointing out "hypocracy", whereupon tres questioned your motive and noted that the sale of Obamacare really was rooted in CBO numbers, your respond to which was to double down:



If people think criticisms of Trump that are made the moment you are called on hypocritically playing The Hypocrisy Game, they can use the "<<" button to read the rest.

Thank you MP. You said it better than I ever could.

 

[tres borrachos]

It's a bit worse. See, he remembers this bit:



That he would say that shows he never actually bothered to find out what the full quote was. He's only regurgitating the little slice carved out by heavily biased media (a complaint he has no doubt aimed at MSNBC or the like at some point).

The full quote, which is quite different, was:



Imagine an economy where people could follow their aspirations, where they could be entrepreneurial, where they could take risks professionally because personally their families [sic] health care needs are being met. Where they could be self-employed or start a business, not be job-locked in a job because they have health care there, and if they went out on their own it would be unaffordable to them, but especially true, if someone has a child with a pre-existing condition. So when we pass our bill, never again will people be denied coverage because they have a pre-existing condition. We have to do this in partnership, and I wanted to bring [you] up to date on where we see it from here. The final health care legislation that will soon be passed by Congress will deliver successful reform at the local level. It will offer paid for investments that will improve health care services and coverage for millions more Americans. It will make significant investments in innovation, prevention, wellness and offer robust support for public health infrastructure. It will dramatically expand investments into community health centers. That means a dramatic expansion in the number of patients community health centers can see and ultimately healthier communities. Our bill will significantly reduce uncompensated care for hospitals. You’ve heard about the controversies within the bill, the process about the bill, one or the other. But I don’t know if you have heard that it is legislation for the future, not just about health care for America, but about a healthier America, where preventive care is not something that you have to pay a deductible for or out of pocket. Prevention, prevention, prevention–it’s about diet, not diabetes. It’s going to be very, very exciting. But we have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it, away from the fog of the controversy.

FACT CHECK: Did Nancy Pelosi Say Obamacare Must be Passed to 'Find Out What Is in It'?







Basically, not only was it an irrelevant whattaboutism not made for purposes of comparison, it was simply wrong.

Kal's dishonesty and failed whataboutism was just what I've come to expect lately.

 

[OscarLevant]

Ahem. More people voted for more republicans in the Senate than they did democrats in the Senate so the democrats have the right to shut the hell up, like I said, to use an old democrat argument.

False.

Dems garnered 53,078,387 votes (59.3%) and repubs only got 34,981,675 votes (39.1%)


As to why the Senate was kept by repubs, this explains it:


https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/11/06/us/elections/results-senate-elections.html


Dems creamed repubs in the popular vote in both the house and the senate, so they have every right to SHOUT OUT LOUD IN YOUR ****ING FACE.

 

[OscarLevant]

"We" owed them the money? Obama had no right to put his dirty hands on that money no matter what he thought.

You are entitled to your opinion, which is all it is, which is not rooted in reality.

 

[Irwin Corey]

I've been hearing that refrain from those opposed to it since the whole hubbub started. Mainly from Democrats. It's become a mantra by now.

So, I have a question for those that state this.

Where were you when the majority of American's did not want Obamacare, in particular the mandate?

Of course don't think that the hypocrisy shown by Democrats on this issue is based solely on the Democrats side. Republicans are just as guilty. When the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare Republicans were going around saying the same mantra. When it comes to The Wall Republicans are ignoring that little aspect just as Democrats ignored it for Obamacare.

This just shows one of the many reasons that Party Ideology is a hazard to this country and why I wish to God that Americans would stop voting for Party and start looking at and voting on the Issues.

IF AmeriCANs voted on issues, in their own self interest, few republicans would ever be elected.

 

[OscarLevant]

Obama broke the 2012 federal law that gave the money to the victims of Iranian terror. There was no more money left to give Iran under that law. The Supreme Court upheld that law on April, 20, 20126.

False, another law was passed by Congress in 2000 that allowed it.

You'll need to read the entire article to understand what actually happened, it's complicated, but your premise is FALSE.


Was Obama's $1.7 billion cash deal with Iran prohibited by U.S. law? | Fact check | The Journal Gazette

 

[marke]

False, another law was passed by Congress in 2000 that allowed it.

You'll need to read the entire article to understand what actually happened, it's complicated, but your premise is FALSE.


Was Obama's $1.7 billion cash deal with Iran prohibited by U.S. law? | Fact check | The Journal Gazette

In 2016 SCOTUS verified the 2012 law authorizing the transfer of $2 billion in Iranian cash to victims of Iranian terrorism. I have no idea what 2000 law you are talking about.

 

[OscarLevant]

In 2016 SCOTUS verified the 2012 law authorizing the transfer of $2 billion in Iranian cash to victims of Iranian terrorism. I have no idea what 2000 law you are talking about.

The article proves the transfer was legal. Read it.

 

[marke]

The article proves the transfer was legal. Read it.

You fail to account for the $2 billion the SCOTUS vouchsafed to American victims of Iranian terror. You are aware that Congress and the courts have repeatedly said that money was to come from the Iranian FMS account?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Where were you when the majority of American's did not want Obamacare, in particular the mandate?

Where were the majority of Americans when it actually came time to get rid of Obamacare?
Apparently, once people started understanding what it was and what it did, a lot of them changed their mind.


Ouch, I realize that is painful for you.
Sorry...not sorry.

Most Americans didn't even know that "Obamacare IS the Affordable Care Act".

So, now that we've played your little game, let's get back to why insurance programs require the largest risk pool possible in order to control costs, and why that made a mandate absolutely necessary in order for the Affordable Care Act to BE AFFORDABLE.

And, while we're at it, let's also try to remember that the whole idea for a mandate started with The Heritage Foundation.

Of course, now that we're all living in Trumplandia, Heritage is furiously denying that they ever conceived of an individual mandate, which of course is a bald faced lie. But lies abound in Trumplandia.



When you insist on using the misnomer "Obamacare", you could at least pretend that you respect the fact that Obama's main contribution was the Public Option, which was immediately killed off by Democrat traitors like Joe Lieberman and most if not all of the Republican Party before it even got a fighting chance. Curiously, Obama himself didn't even fight for it after fears of losing the needed sixty votes.

Without the Public Option, it's not really Obamacare, it's "The Affordable Care Act", a product of The Heritage Foundation and RomneyCare. While it's true that Obama sucked at being an arm twister, it doesn't change the rest of the facts.

And the main fact is, the mandate wasn't an idea originating from Barack Obama, the public option was.
And today, the other fact is, killing off every last particle of The Affordable Care Act, including coverage for pre-existing condition and bans on spending caps, is an idea originating with Donald Trump and his Trump Republicans.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Where were the majority of Americans when it actually came time to get rid of Obamacare?
Apparently, once people started understanding what it was and what it did, a lot of them changed their mind.


Ouch, I realize that is painful for you.
Sorry...not sorry.

Most Americans didn't even know that "Obamacare IS the Affordable Care Act".

So, now that we've played your little game, let's get back to why insurance programs require the largest risk pool possible in order to control costs, and why that made a mandate absolutely necessary in order for the Affordable Care Act to BE AFFORDABLE.

And, while we're at it, let's also try to remember that the whole idea for a mandate started with The Heritage Foundation.

Of course, now that we're all living in Trumplandia, Heritage is furiously denying that they ever conceived of an individual mandate, which of course is a bald faced lie. But lies abound in Trumplandia.

View attachment 67248059

When you insist on using the misnomer "Obamacare", you could at least pretend that you respect the fact that Obama's main contribution was the Public Option, which was immediately killed off by Democrat traitors like Joe Lieberman and most if not all of the Republican Party before it even got a fighting chance. Curiously, Obama himself didn't even fight for it after fears of losing the needed sixty votes.

Without the Public Option, it's not really Obamacare, it's "The Affordable Care Act", a product of The Heritage Foundation and RomneyCare. While it's true that Obama sucked at being an arm twister, it doesn't change the rest of the facts.

And the main fact is, the mandate wasn't an idea originating from Barack Obama, the public option was.
And today, the other fact is, killing off every last particle of The Affordable Care Act, including coverage for pre-existing condition and bans on spending caps, is an idea originating with Donald Trump and his Trump Republicans.

Thread is about hypocrisy. Not whether Obamacare is good or bad or who you think is responsible for what's in it.

 

[Greenbeard]

Thread is about hypocrisy. Not whether Obamacare is good or bad or who you think is responsible for what's in it.

If Obama had faced a GOP House in 2009/10 and decided to shut down the government indefinitely unless the GOP passed Obamacare that would've been absurd.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Thread is about hypocrisy. Not whether Obamacare is good or bad or who you think is responsible for what's in it.

FAILED. Sorry, not sorry.