Majority of Americans do not want The Wall.

[Kal'Stang]

I've been hearing that refrain from those opposed to it since the whole hubbub started. Mainly from Democrats. It's become a mantra by now.

So, I have a question for those that state this.

Where were you when the majority of American's did not want Obamacare, in particular the mandate?

Of course don't think that the hypocrisy shown by Democrats on this issue is based solely on the Democrats side. Republicans are just as guilty. When the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare Republicans were going around saying the same mantra. When it comes to The Wall Republicans are ignoring that little aspect just as Democrats ignored it for Obamacare.

This just shows one of the many reasons that Party Ideology is a hazard to this country and why I wish to God that Americans would stop voting for Party and start looking at and voting on the Issues.

 

[KevinKohler]

According to liberals, most Americans didn't want Trump for president, either.

Fortunately, we don't abide by mob rule.


On that note, however...I am NOT in favor of the wall. Go after the reasons people are willing to come here illegally in the first place. Cure the disease, don't treat the symptoms.

 

[MrPeanut]

Hypocrisy is such a fundamental part of politics that lately I've decided to just avoid even paying attention to it. Ideology and issues are not completely separate things. My biggest problem is when people vote based on cultural cues rather than their actual opinion on how to resolve real issues.

 

[MovingPictures]

I think the major difference is that Democrats didn't use the scorched Earth tactics Republicans are using right now, nor did they threaten to declare national emergencies and such if they didn't get their way.

Nope, the Democrats simply won the required 60 seats to pass their law, so they didn't need the Republicans support.

 

[ecofarm]

According to liberals, most Americans didn't want Trump for president, either.

According to liberals? According to facts. What the hell. You can't pretend that Trump won a majority of the popular vote, and you can't pretend a minority of the vote represents a majority of the population.

By what imaginary BS do you put facts down as "according to liberals"?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

I think the major difference is that Democrats didn't use the scorched Earth tactics Republicans are using right now, nor did they threaten to declare national emergencies and such if they didn't get their way.

Nope, the Democrats simply won the required 60 seats to pass their law, so they didn't need the Republicans support.

No they didn’t. They lost MA specifically on this issue and then used tomfoolery to get around a filibuster

 

[Airyaman]

I was against Obamacare. I'm pretty much against big government all around. I am against the wall because there has been no real effort to show me 1) a wall will indeed work and 2) actual plans for building such a barrier, where it will be built, how the lands will be obtained, etc. Thus far the Republicans have offered almost no details about this wall proposal, so more money should not be considered for wall spending until we see a good plan.

 

[NeverTrump]

Fortunately, we don't abide by mob rule.

Because Trump does fake mob rule so much better.

 

[Sampson Simpson]

According to liberals? According to facts. What the hell. You can't pretend that Trump won a majority of the popular vote, and you can't pretend a minority of the vote represents a majority of the population.

By what imaginary BS do you put facts down as "according to liberals"?

It's all right wingers know how to do. These people are the worst, the lowest of the low this country has

 

[Tom Horn]

As for the healthcare mandate, I just ignored it and it went away.
As for the wall, I still hold a small amount of US Lime. It’s slowgrowth I know, but their cash equivalent
Position and zero debt make a solid platform for future growth.
Maybe the democrats can put up the numbers it would cost of eliminating the wall.

 

[Mach]

I wish to God that Americans would stop voting for Party and start looking at and voting on the Issues.

Thoughts and prayers? I wish to gawd people would stop wishing to gawd, and wake the **** up and start acting like adults.

You wish this was about the issues..lol. You do realize "the wall" originated as a phrase to help Trump cry about immigration because it polled well, right? Not the issue!
The *issue* dear Kal, is immigration, and of that is a subset, "illegal immigration", of which border security is yet ANOTHER tiny sub-set.
Of that fraction, there is some small amount that we can do differently, including more staff, better border monitoring, physical barriers, etc., all of which has some small net effect. Certainly not a national agenda item (why is it? It polled well).
The wall, oh Kal, oh Kal, is Trump's campaign slogan, and is not the issue.

When you decide to take your own advice and make this about the issues, rather than Party, let us know.

 

[KevinKohler]

According to liberals? According to facts. What the hell. You can't pretend that Trump won a majority of the popular vote, and you can't pretend a minority of the vote represents a majority of the population.

By what imaginary BS do you put facts down as "according to liberals"?

Poorly worded on my part. See the very me t line of my post.

 

[KevinKohler]

I think the major difference is that Democrats didn't use the scorched Earth tactics Republicans are using right now, nor did they threaten to declare national emergencies and such if they didn't get their way.

Nope, the Democrats simply won the required 60 seats to pass their law, so they didn't need the Republicans support.

Sequestration. By admission, it was designed to hurt.

 

[ecofarm]

Poorly worded on my part.

Well, I'll be damned. A reasonable member.

 

[TheGoverness]

According to liberals, most Americans didn't want Trump for president, either.

Fortunately, we don't abide by mob rule.


On that note, however...I am NOT in favor of the wall. Go after the reasons people are willing to come here illegally in the first place. Cure the disease, don't treat the symptoms.

Well, I mean, more people did vote for Hillary than Trump.

 

[independentusa]

I've been hearing that refrain from those opposed to it since the whole hubbub started. Mainly from Democrats. It's become a mantra by now.

So, I have a question for those that state this.

Where were you when the majority of American's did not want Obamacare, in particular the mandate?

Of course don't think that the hypocrisy shown by Democrats on this issue is based solely on the Democrats side. Republicans are just as guilty. When the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare Republicans were going around saying the same mantra. When it comes to The Wall Republicans are ignoring that little aspect just as Democrats ignored it for Obamacare.

This just shows one of the many reasons that Party Ideology is a hazard to this country and why I wish to God that Americans would stop voting for Party and start looking at and voting on the Issues.

Another deflection trying to balance apples to oranges, A wall is something that will help zero Americans and its only purpose is to help get Trump elected in 2020. The ACA is something that helped 30 million Americans get health insurance. It also improved the types of health plans avaialble so that even those who began not wanting the ACA are now for it as they see the results. I do have to agree with you about voting along strict party lines. What I have observed over 50 years of voting is that GoPers always vote along strictly party lines where many Dems and independents often cross those lines,as can b seen by Trump being elected. I have often heard from GOPers that it is better to vote for the worst GOP candidate than a Dem. This can be seen by King being reelected in Iowa.

 

[KevinKohler]

Well, I'll be damned. A reasonable member.

I try, and fail often. But I have my moments.

 

[TheGoverness]

I try, and fail often. But I have my moments.

We all make mistakes. No big.

 

[roughdraft274]

I've been hearing that refrain from those opposed to it since the whole hubbub started. Mainly from Democrats. It's become a mantra by now.

So, I have a question for those that state this.

Where were you when the majority of American's did not want Obamacare, in particular the mandate?

Of course don't think that the hypocrisy shown by Democrats on this issue is based solely on the Democrats side. Republicans are just as guilty. When the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare Republicans were going around saying the same mantra. When it comes to The Wall Republicans are ignoring that little aspect just as Democrats ignored it for Obamacare.

This just shows one of the many reasons that Party Ideology is a hazard to this country and why I wish to God that Americans would stop voting for Party and start looking at and voting on the Issues.

Well, for starters, Obamacare was a bill with a dozen different parts. No more pre-existing conditions, allowing 26 year olds on parents plans, medicaid expansion, mandated birth control and family planning coverage.

Some of these items are very very popular, some weren't as popular. I'm not sure of the exact polling of the mandate, but even if it were low, you have to judge the bill as an entirety. That's just the reality of it. With the wall there are no ancillary things we need to consider. It's a simple single item idea.

With that said, I fully agree that people on either side will react much more strongly to a party doing something that's unpopular when it's not their party. But I don't think this is a perfect comparison. And also, it was completely fair for republicans to point out that obamacare was unpopular. I would expect them to do that. And I would expect democrats to point out the lies that republicans spread in order to make it that unpopular. And I would expect democrats to show that the wall is unpopular and show the statistics and facts that show it to be largely unnecessary.

 

[MovingPictures]

No they didn’t. They lost MA specifically on this issue and then used tomfoolery to get around a filibuster

This is false.

The ACA was not passed via reconciliation, it was passed 60-39 without a filibuster. The individual mandate, Medicare expansion, and so on, were all passed in the original ACA Senate vote. Reconciliation was used to slightly revise what the law would be for subsidies - and that was it.

It was the Republican Congress that wrote an entire law and used reconciliation to pass the whole thing, not the Democrats.

The lies Republicans will sell are incredible.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Hypocrisy is such a fundamental part of politics that lately I've decided to just avoid even paying attention to it. Ideology and issues are not completely separate things. My biggest problem is when people vote based on cultural cues rather than their actual opinion on how to resolve real issues.

And therein lies the problem. People have become inured to it and no longer question it or hold those that are hypocritical accountable to it.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Thoughts and prayers? I wish to gawd people would stop wishing to gawd, and wake the **** up and start acting like adults.

You wish this was about the issues..lol. You do realize "the wall" originated as a phrase to help Trump cry about immigration because it polled well, right? Not the issue!
The *issue* dear Kal, is immigration, and of that is a subset, "illegal immigration", of which border security is yet ANOTHER tiny sub-set.
Of that fraction, there is some small amount that we can do differently, including more staff, better border monitoring, physical barriers, etc., all of which has some small net effect. Certainly not a national agenda item (why is it? It polled well).
The wall, oh Kal, oh Kal, is Trump's campaign slogan, and is not the issue.

When you decide to take your own advice and make this about the issues, rather than Party, let us know.

I have many posts that talk about immigration both legal and illegal and the reasons/causes for illegal immigration. My post was not about party in so much as it was about hypocrisy. Which IS an issue with our politics now a days. When people follow party rather than the issues they can end up with a hypocritical stance.

 

[Kal'Stang]

Another deflection trying to balance apples to oranges, A wall is something that will help zero Americans and its only purpose is to help get Trump elected in 2020. The ACA is something that helped 30 million Americans get health insurance. It also improved the types of health plans avaialble so that even those who began not wanting the ACA are now for it as they see the results. I do have to agree with you about voting along strict party lines. What I have observed over 50 years of voting is that GoPers always vote along strictly party lines where many Dems and independents often cross those lines,as can b seen by Trump being elected. I have often heard from GOPers that it is better to vote for the worst GOP candidate than a Dem. This can be seen by King being reelected in Iowa.

Regardless of whether something helps or does not help, the hypocrisy is there. All that you're doing is excusing the hypocrisy of one while condemning the hypocrisy of another. Which is in itself hypocritical.

 

[RetiredUSN]

I've been hearing that refrain from those opposed to it since the whole hubbub started. Mainly from Democrats. It's become a mantra by now.

So, I have a question for those that state this.

Where were you when the majority of American's did not want Obamacare, in particular the mandate?

Of course don't think that the hypocrisy shown by Democrats on this issue is based solely on the Democrats side. Republicans are just as guilty. When the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare Republicans were going around saying the same mantra. When it comes to The Wall Republicans are ignoring that little aspect just as Democrats ignored it for Obamacare.

This just shows one of the many reasons that Party Ideology is a hazard to this country and why I wish to God that Americans would stop voting for Party and start looking at and voting on the Issues.

According to Democrats......

America opposes everything the democrats oppose.

It's like a scratched record with them.

 

[jnug]

I've been hearing that refrain from those opposed to it since the whole hubbub started. Mainly from Democrats. It's become a mantra by now.

So, I have a question for those that state this.

Where were you when the majority of American's did not want Obamacare, in particular the mandate?

Of course don't think that the hypocrisy shown by Democrats on this issue is based solely on the Democrats side. Republicans are just as guilty. When the majority of Americans did not want Obamacare Republicans were going around saying the same mantra. When it comes to The Wall Republicans are ignoring that little aspect just as Democrats ignored it for Obamacare.

This just shows one of the many reasons that Party Ideology is a hazard to this country and why I wish to God that Americans would stop voting for Party and start looking at and voting on the Issues.

Your argument here appears to be that Obama knew how to work within the process provided for in Article 1 of the Constitution and Trump's brutal ignorance has forced him to coercion and subversion of that process. I use the term "forced" recognizing that the fly in that ointment is that Trump has never been forced to coercion and subversion. Coercion and subversion is all he knows and all he has ever done because he is a thug.