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Macabre story at the gun range today

MaggieD

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Went shooting at Article II Range today and asked the owner about the suicide that happened there a few months ago.

An attractive young woman came in and wanted to use the range and rent a gun. That range, and most in my area, use a buddy system unless they know you. Can't shoot alone. She was turned away. The next day, she showed up with a friend. Later, they found out she'd connected with him on the Internet the day before. First date at the range.

The range videos every stall. Review of the video later showed she loaded the rental gun, placed the target, shot at it twice and then...without skipping a beat...put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger.

A guy two stalls away was an ex-medic in the service. He kept her alive until paramedics arrived. She was taken off life support when her mom was reached and organs were harvested to help six people.

Staff working that day and others in the range were devastated. She'd tried twice before to kill herself. Her mom is a psychiatric nurse in a suburban hospital.

Apparently that's not that rare. Owner said it was his first time...30 years...but most ranges have had it happen in the past.

Thoughts?
 

gdgyva

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sorry to say it, but when someone really wants to end it, they will usually find a way

her mom had no idea she was in trouble again?

a trained nurse in that area of expertise?

that is the issue....people hide their pain to well....

i cant imagine what the people at the range felt like....surreal i would surmise
 

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Went shooting at Article II Range today and asked the owner about the suicide that happened there a few months ago.

An attractive young woman came in and wanted to use the range and rent a gun. That range, and most in my area, use a buddy system unless they know you. Can't shoot alone. She was turned away. The next day, she showed up with a friend. Later, they found out she'd connected with him on the Internet the day before. First date at the range.

The range videos every stall. Review of the video later showed she loaded the rental gun, placed the target, shot at it twice and then...without skipping a beat...put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger.

A guy two stalls away was an ex-medic in the service. He kept her alive until paramedics arrived. She was taken off life support when her mom was reached and organs were harvested to help six people.

Staff working that day and others in the range were devastated. She'd tried twice before to kill herself. Her mom is a psychiatric nurse in a suburban hospital.

Apparently that's not that rare. Owner said it was his first time...30 years...but most ranges have had it happen in the past.

Thoughts?

People find easy ways to off themselves that are quite selfish to those around them. Do it the right way, tie an anchor to your neck and throw yourself into deep ocean water.
 

Chomsky

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Macabre is the word!

I can't even imagine the horror of her date! Holy crap! :shock:
 

Lutherf

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Went shooting at Article II Range today and asked the owner about the suicide that happened there a few months ago.

An attractive young woman came in and wanted to use the range and rent a gun. That range, and most in my area, use a buddy system unless they know you. Can't shoot alone. She was turned away. The next day, she showed up with a friend. Later, they found out she'd connected with him on the Internet the day before. First date at the range.

The range videos every stall. Review of the video later showed she loaded the rental gun, placed the target, shot at it twice and then...without skipping a beat...put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger.

A guy two stalls away was an ex-medic in the service. He kept her alive until paramedics arrived. She was taken off life support when her mom was reached and organs were harvested to help six people.

Staff working that day and others in the range were devastated. She'd tried twice before to kill herself. Her mom is a psychiatric nurse in a suburban hospital.

Apparently that's not that rare. Owner said it was his first time...30 years...but most ranges have had it happen in the past.

Thoughts?

It does happen. In my experience when people want a way out they'll find a way. There's not much else a range can do about it.

At least she didn't decide to take anyone else with her.
 

nota bene

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Maggie, I Googled "woman commits suicide at shooting range" for more info and was horrified by the number of articles about gun-range shootings, both suicides and murder/suicides.
 

Fearandloathing

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Went shooting at Article II Range today and asked the owner about the suicide that happened there a few months ago.

An attractive young woman came in and wanted to use the range and rent a gun. That range, and most in my area, use a buddy system unless they know you. Can't shoot alone. She was turned away. The next day, she showed up with a friend. Later, they found out she'd connected with him on the Internet the day before. First date at the range.

The range videos every stall. Review of the video later showed she loaded the rental gun, placed the target, shot at it twice and then...without skipping a beat...put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger.

A guy two stalls away was an ex-medic in the service. He kept her alive until paramedics arrived. She was taken off life support when her mom was reached and organs were harvested to help six people.

Staff working that day and others in the range were devastated. She'd tried twice before to kill herself. Her mom is a psychiatric nurse in a suburban hospital.

Apparently that's not that rare. Owner said it was his first time...30 years...but most ranges have had it happen in the past.

Thoughts?

Believe it or not, more people die that way, of their own choice than we think. PTSD symptoms are as common as a cold, a result I am told of a rapidly and increasingly complex society. No one sits anymore, I mean, just sits and contemplates whatever. everything is in motion, the audio portion pierced routinely with electrical beeps. Everything beeps, trucks backing up, bank machines, the chair ramp on a bus, cell phones. We seldom engage one another. Alone kills.

We have no way of knowing which OD deaths is intended, nor that of single car accidents.

All that takes a toll. Additions and alcoholism, rates are higher than they have ever been, and no one, I mean no one has even started to get a handle on mental illness. Treated, depression/anxiety disorder becomes an annoyance; untreated it kills. Unfortunately, we are still in the dark ages on mental illness. It still has a stigma, and one that prevents people from seeking help.

In this case she thought it out, knew what she intended to do and when presented with a barrier found a way to overcome it. What irony though...had she had that kind of inventiveness in her life as she did in seeking her death....

d she been taught to show as much fortitude and inventiveness in her life, she could have been helped. But, that's the way of most suicides, once the decision made that's it. And it is said, once the manner of death is decided by the patient, there is no hope without intervention. BTW, it is not true they always leave a note, they almost never do. They do, however, usually reach out to one person before the deed is done...
 

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.....Firearm Rental Fee:

– $ 12 for the first handgun or long gun

– $ 6 for each additional gun

***Rental party must have a minimum of two persons, at least one of which is 21 or older with a valid FOID card***
Store ammunition must be purchased for rental guns. Regular range fees apply..... Article 2 Gun Range | Rental Firearms & Fees | (630) 627-0310

Have to wonder if they first turned her away because she didn't have a FOID or if it was because she was alone? Maybe she brought the date because he had the FOID card. If she had a valid FOID why didn't she buy a cheap gun and do it at home(alone). Did they have the buddy syatem before she killed herself(never happened before then/there)?
 

beerftw

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Went shooting at Article II Range today and asked the owner about the suicide that happened there a few months ago.

An attractive young woman came in and wanted to use the range and rent a gun. That range, and most in my area, use a buddy system unless they know you. Can't shoot alone. She was turned away. The next day, she showed up with a friend. Later, they found out she'd connected with him on the Internet the day before. First date at the range.

The range videos every stall. Review of the video later showed she loaded the rental gun, placed the target, shot at it twice and then...without skipping a beat...put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger.

A guy two stalls away was an ex-medic in the service. He kept her alive until paramedics arrived. She was taken off life support when her mom was reached and organs were harvested to help six people.

Staff working that day and others in the range were devastated. She'd tried twice before to kill herself. Her mom is a psychiatric nurse in a suburban hospital.

Apparently that's not that rare. Owner said it was his first time...30 years...but most ranges have had it happen in the past.

Thoughts?

Suicide is reality and too often people never recognize the signs around them. People who are suicidal often use the easiest means. For example in army basic training multiple people tried, they had guns but no ammo, because ammo was issued on a range basic. One guy used the blanks he was issued with the end of a cleaning rod, another tried to od on pills, but they took him to the hospital, another tried to jump off the third story but broke both his legs and lived, last one she tried to hang herself from the bars of the balcony, with bedsheets, and they did not hold and she lived.

Suicide happens often because people feel alienated, unloved, or like they are a burden to the world. Most people who commit suicide actually give off plenty signs, like a last ditch effort hoping someone will stop them showing they care. In san francisco ot is common for people to jump off a bridge. I remember a story about a guy crying ready to jump, and a couple asked him to take their picture, which he did handed them the camera then jumped.

Too often the signs exist, but people get too caught up in their own lives to notice trouble in others.
 

MaggieD

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Have to wonder if they first turned her away because she didn't have a FOID or if it was because she was alone? Maybe she brought the date because he had the FOID card. If she had a valid FOID why didn't she buy a cheap gun and do it at home(alone). Did they have the buddy syatem before she killed herself(never happened before then/there)?

The owner said she had a FOID. She cincumvented the system the next day by bringing a stranger with her. He's had the buddy system for years as do most other ranges in the area. He said they allow people they know to shoot alone, but not strangers.
 

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Evolution in action. If she wants to die, let her die. Who cares?
 

Fearandloathing

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Suicide is reality and too often people never recognize the signs around them. People who are suicidal often use the easiest means. For example in army basic training multiple people tried, they had guns but no ammo, because ammo was issued on a range basic. One guy used the blanks he was issued with the end of a cleaning rod, another tried to od on pills, but they took him to the hospital, another tried to jump off the third story but broke both his legs and lived, last one she tried to hang herself from the bars of the balcony, with bedsheets, and they did not hold and she lived.

Suicide happens often because people feel alienated, unloved, or like they are a burden to the world. Most people who commit suicide actually give off plenty signs, like a last ditch effort hoping someone will stop them showing they care. In san francisco ot is common for people to jump off a bridge. I remember a story about a guy crying ready to jump, and a couple asked him to take their picture, which he did handed them the camera then jumped.

Too often the signs exist, but people get too caught up in their own lives to notice trouble in others.



In every known instance the patient has reached out to someone, or some organization. There are defined patterns like isolating, only going out at night etc., but severe changes in behavior. If substances are involved we estimate the patient will reach out, but is defeated by the lack of a "quick fix."

Having been trained to be at the end of the phone people like that call, I can attest to a pattern of behavior. We had a list of questions, as often they won't come directly at the deed, but talk around it. I had one survivor who said that calling for help was like an instinct, but a threat as well. In the back of his mind he always knew if he said the wrong words, he could get hospitalized. As a recovering alcoholic I have been to some amazing meetings, but there is nothing like a peer-to-peer suicide meeting, where survivors work with others, including the grief of the family left behind.

You are right, most people are just too wrapped up in their own stuff. But, they are also afraid. Too few people have any clue what to do when a friend or family member starts acting strangely; too often there is estrangement caused by the disease/addiction.

In the end though, there are those who are going to accomplish their objective, no matter what. I worked with a young man who "slipped" and ended up with brain damage from crack. His short-term memory was shot. He would get on a bus and forget why before he reached a stop. He was "interdicted" four times in six days by Vancouver Police department, which is an intervention for anyone in distress, panicked, disoriented etc. In one he was almost shot as he was holding a piece of metal which he had no idea he'd done. All this sober.

He died of an overdose, one hit, about two months after he came out of detox. Autopsy showed there had not been on-going use, it was well into the 'lethal' arena. We figure he just couldn't live brain damaged.
 

beerftw

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In every known instance the patient has reached out to someone, or some organization. There are defined patterns like isolating, only going out at night etc., but severe changes in behavior. If substances are involved we estimate the patient will reach out, but is defeated by the lack of a "quick fix."

Having been trained to be at the end of the phone people like that call, I can attest to a pattern of behavior. We had a list of questions, as often they won't come directly at the deed, but talk around it. I had one survivor who said that calling for help was like an instinct, but a threat as well. In the back of his mind he always knew if he said the wrong words, he could get hospitalized. As a recovering alcoholic I have been to some amazing meetings, but there is nothing like a peer-to-peer suicide meeting, where survivors work with others, including the grief of the family left behind.

You are right, most people are just too wrapped up in their own stuff. But, they are also afraid. Too few people have any clue what to do when a friend or family member starts acting strangely; too often there is estrangement caused by the disease/addiction.

In the end though, there are those who are going to accomplish their objective, no matter what. I worked with a young man who "slipped" and ended up with brain damage from crack. His short-term memory was shot. He would get on a bus and forget why before he reached a stop. He was "interdicted" four times in six days by Vancouver Police department, which is an intervention for anyone in distress, panicked, disoriented etc. In one he was almost shot as he was holding a piece of metal which he had no idea he'd done. All this sober.

He died of an overdose, one hit, about two months after he came out of detox. Autopsy showed there had not been on-going use, it was well into the 'lethal' arena. We figure he just couldn't live brain damaged.

Some people are hell bent on not changing their minds, most though gave the signs for a long time, and after a while decided nothing would stop them. Some others go through immense pain, some medical patients go through so much pain even the strongest opium meds do little, after a while they crumble under the pain and end it.

Most though have too many signs and are willing to change their mind. I had to deal with this alot in the military. Guy xyz gets a divorce, his wife takes most of his money, blocks him from seeing his kids, has no car and not enough money to even live. He goes from being a happy guy who hangs out alot to someone who avoids everyone and is secluded.

Most people do not even recognize it or even think about it. In the military many people like that went from suicidal to not by people caring. The first sergeant could sign him out a barracks and a meal card in that instance, and other soldiers help him out, give him rides, bring him out to join their games etc. But if no one notices or cares, that guy quickly goes from good to dead.

Like for example I knew a guy like that, his unit shunned him, he had no money to rent a place, but was denied barracks and a meal card by his first sergeant. He was literally homeless with nearly no money, but my unit had some guys take him into the barracks, which the higher ups ignored given his situation. The dining facility heard about him and ignored the meal card or cash requirement for him. He basically floated around my barracks for 4 months until they switched first sergeant and commander, which he instantly got what he needed.

point being, people get in distress, their lives get ruined, helping out or even talking to them about it helps out greatly. Most never say they have a problem at first, usually it is life is awesome, then ask them a few more times it becomes well now that you mention it.
 

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What compassion you have.

Says the person who wants to force someone who doesn't want to live to live against their will.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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Yes, ignore the only one making any actual sense.

Thing is you're not making any sense. Someone who is suicidal is mentally ill. Their desire to die is based on THAT. If you were making sense you'd consider that.
 

Cephus

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Thing is you're not making any sense. Someone who is suicidal is mentally ill. Their desire to die is based on THAT. If you were making sense you'd consider that.

No, you're just so terrified of death that you are ASSERTING mental illness because you can't understand why anyone would not want to live.
 

CaptainCourtesy

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No, you're just so terrified of death that you are ASSERTING mental illness because you can't understand why anyone would not want to live.

No, you're making idiotic assumptions that have no basis in reality. Suicidal people are mentally ill. They most often suffer from severe depression, though other mental illness can also cause suicidal behavior. Interestingly enough, when the mental illness is alleviated, nearly always the suicidal behavior is, too. If you don't understand a topic, it would be a good idea if you didn't speak about it, Cephus... and you certainly don't seem like you understand this one.
 

TheGoverness

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It does happen. In my experience when people want a way out they'll find a way. There's not much else a range can do about it.

At least she didn't decide to take anyone else with her.

Exactly. You shouldn't kill yourself to begin with, but if you're going to, don't hurt anyone else in the process.
 

Hawkeye10

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No, you're making idiotic assumptions that have no basis in reality. Suicidal people are mentally ill. They most often suffer from severe depression, though other mental illness can also cause suicidal behavior. Interestingly enough, when the mental illness is alleviated, nearly always the suicidal behavior is, too. If you don't understand a topic, it would be a good idea if you didn't speak about it, Cephus... and you certainly don't seem like you understand this one.

What is you definition of "suicidal people" cause some people who actually do suicide are stone sane..... they just dont want to stick around anymore, the value is gone.

This is why in many places we have doc assisted suicide.

Ya know?
 
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CaptainCourtesy

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What is you definition of "suicidal people" cause some people who actually do suicide are stone sane..... they just dont want to stick around anymore, the value is gone.

This is why in many places we have doc assisted suicide.

Ya know?

Doc assisted suicide is for those with terminal diseases. I do not see these people as mentally ill, as their decision is not caused by depression or other psychiatric disorders. Someone who is not in that same space, mostly likely does suffer from a mental illness. That changes things. Treat the mental illness. Once it is resolved, so should the suicidality.
 

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ANYWAY... :roll:

I had no idea this was a thing, totally ignorant of it until now. Makes sense though. Why bother buying a gun and going through all that trouble when you can just have a day at the range.

I also had this ignorant idea that if you shot yourself in the head, you'd be dead instantly. The fact that she could be kept alive at all is kind of amazing to me, so I had to Google gunshots to the head in order to learn that a lot of people don't succeed in killing themselves that way. Ugh... what a nightmare.

I know people want to blame her and blah blah... I get that, it's her responsibility, but just imagine how far gone you have to be to be able to shoot at the target and then yourself without skipping a beat? Life must really be horrendously painful. Hope she finds some kind of solace in the afterlife, and I hope the people at the range that day aren't scarred for life!!

And about legalities and what not, I don't think anything needs to be changed. If the range has vid cameras, a buddy system, and liability insurance, they've already done all they can. We can't control every aspect of people's actions. Tragedy happens.
 

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Believe it or not, more people die that way, of their own choice than we think. PTSD symptoms are as common as a cold, a result I am told of a rapidly and increasingly complex society. No one sits anymore, I mean, just sits and contemplates whatever. everything is in motion, the audio portion pierced routinely with electrical beeps. Everything beeps, trucks backing up, bank machines, the chair ramp on a bus, cell phones. We seldom engage one another. Alone kills.

We have no way of knowing which OD deaths is intended, nor that of single car accidents.

All that takes a toll. Additions and alcoholism, rates are higher than they have ever been, and no one, I mean no one has even started to get a handle on mental illness. Treated, depression/anxiety disorder becomes an annoyance; untreated it kills. Unfortunately, we are still in the dark ages on mental illness. It still has a stigma, and one that prevents people from seeking help.

In this case she thought it out, knew what she intended to do and when presented with a barrier found a way to overcome it. What irony though...had she had that kind of inventiveness in her life as she did in seeking her death....

d she been taught to show as much fortitude and inventiveness in her life, she could have been helped. But, that's the way of most suicides, once the decision made that's it. And it is said, once the manner of death is decided by the patient, there is no hope without intervention. BTW, it is not true they always leave a note, they almost never do. They do, however, usually reach out to one person before the deed is done...

It's an interesting one. I was reading recently about how the happiest people in the world are, in fact, people in some developing countries, especially in South America.

I've wondered about that for a long time. I've seen all these documentaries in these poor places in the world, yet everyone smiles and talks to one another, and even strangers, with total ease. In most of the developed world, smiles are much more rare, people are colder, more nervous, and do everything they can to block out their awareness of the people around them.

When I was taking classes about psychology, we learned that there are some developing countries or tribes that actually have a much better success rate than the West when it comes to helping schizophrenics, despite that they often have limited access to therapy and medication. They do it through community. And things like depression are actually quite rare.

Clearly we have easier lives in many respects. I have a fridge full of food, no concerns about still having my roof next month or even next year, I have an education, and health care. I'm not going to downplay their struggles for a moment.

Those people often don't have any of those things. Yet they're probably happier than I am. And I'm not an unhappy person by the standards of the society in which I live. But the fact is, now headed steadily towards 30, I no longer know *anyone* who hasn't had a problem with depression and/or anxiety at some point in their lives. I certainly don't know anyone who hasn't felt alone, despite living in these vast inter-connected webs of people.

Is that normal?

Is it normal for depression and anxiety to be such an expected part of life that it's pretty likely everyone you know has been through it by the time they're exiting their youth? What should be the happiest, healthiest, most energetic period of their lives?

I wonder sometimes what the constant beeps and the endless rapid-fire information does to our minds.

For all their poverty and strife, is there something about being able to see the stars at night, sit in silence even with others, or have the ebb of their life uninterrupted by bombastic headlines full of tragedy that makes them more able to just... be happy? Be human?

I wonder sometimes if we're really so much better at living than they are. And whether, as creatures of the mind, it's really "better" to be of sound bank account than of sound mind.
 
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