lyndie england

[Surenderer]

I also hear that the worse of the pictures didnt even get released but are soldiers in the pictures we havent seen also being prosecuted? Why not if they arent?

 

[mistermain]

We all seem to agree that this girl is a disgrace to the country and to the military. She deserves to do time, and be dishonorably discharged. However, calling what these people did torture is just not realistic. They humiliated some terrorists.

 

[MSgt]

It's very simple. Because all I read is excuses and remarks about "our enemies" and no correlating outrage on how our prisoners were treated while in our care. It hardly matters where we are or who we are mistreating when you purport to be a country that upholds the principles of human rights. Let's leave it at that though. Tom DeLay just resigned as House Majority Leader. It's party time.

Where are the excuses? Where are the remarks? They are guilty and wrong for what they did and they have lost rank, pay, military service, careers, and they are serving prison time over it. There is the justice.

Now, as the upstanding Americans with higher morals and ethics that we are, we have punished the accused. Will this make a difference to the extremists? Will they follow our example? Doubt it. I doubt they even care. In fact, they would have preferred that we did nothing. That would give them their next "excuse" to murder civilians.

The most positive impact that this Court Martial should have is the millions and millions of Muslims around the world that was paying attention to it. Because, ultimately, American civilization and Middle Eastern civilization is struggling for their hearts and minds.

 

[MSgt]

I also hear that the worse of the pictures didnt even get released but are soldiers in the pictures we havent seen also being prosecuted? Why not if they arent?

Yes they were. That's been done.

And there have been more Court Martials surrounding other events as well.

 

[mixedmedia]

Where are the excuses? Where are the remarks? They are guilty and wrong for what they did and they have lost rank, pay, military service, careers, and they are serving prison time over it. There is the justice.

Now, as the upstanding Americans with higher morals and ethics that we are, we have punished the accused. Will this make a difference to the extremists? Will they follow our example? Doubt it. I doubt they even care. In fact, they would have preferred that we did nothing. That would give them their next "excuse" to murder civilians.

The most positive impact that this Court Martial should have is the millions and millions of Muslims around the world that was paying attention to it. Because, ultimately, American civilization and Middle Eastern civilization is struggling for their hearts and minds.

Then we can agree. Somewhat. I somewhat agree with most of your views on Middle Eastern conflict. One thing that often sets me back though, is your insistence on comparing our actions to the actions of Islamic militants as if to say, "Well at least we didn't chop their heads off." I do believe that America represents an ethic that is vastly different than the Islamic terrorists' - thus it is totally useless and perhaps even disadvantageous to compare them. It's like constantly re-drawing the line in the sand if our actions are always being recalibrated and re-judged in comparison to those who obviously don't bother much with drawing lines in the first place. Our standards should be resolute in the face of resolute inhumanity.

 

[TimmyBoy]

So let me understand what your saying.........You think that what happened on 9/11/01 was justified?

I thought I already stated that 9/11 was not justified. Did you read my posts? What I am saying, is the US did bring it on itself, because the US has a history of participating in terrorism. If you don't participate in terrorism, you won't be the target of terrorists. It's a simple way to fight terrorism. Don't participate in it. Terrorism is never justified whether it be the actions of a government or a terrorist organization like Al-Queda.

 

[TimmyBoy]

No statments such as your are what give terrorist and insurgence motivation for their mission to destroy us.

We have to talk and deal in truth and not nationalist fantasies. Our most powerful weapon is the ideas of freedom. However, we are not using our most powerful weapons, we are using bombs and tanks, which give terrorists more power.

 

[jamesrage]

Lyndie England gets three years. Well i think that should do it.

They told me many time in the Army that if I do something illegal I will be punished and that the old "my commanding officer told me to do it"excuse will not work.
Is what she did torture? absolutly not.It is degrading what she did to some of those men,but it is not torture.I guess people in this country have been pussified/deballed(had their man parts metaphorically removed) so much that anything appears to be torutre.

 

[MSgt]

Then we can agree. Somewhat. I somewhat agree with most of your views on Middle Eastern conflict. One thing that often sets me back though, is your insistence on comparing our actions to the actions of Islamic militants as if to say, "Well at least we didn't chop their heads off." I do believe that America represents an ethic that is vastly different than the Islamic terrorists' - thus it is totally useless and perhaps even disadvantageous to compare them. It's like constantly re-drawing the line in the sand if our actions are always being recalibrated and re-judged in comparison to those who obviously don't bother much with drawing lines in the first place. Our standards should be resolute in the face of resolute inhumanity.

I believe, despite a few instances that were beat to death in the media for poitical gain, that our standards are still resolute.

 

[jamesrage]

I thought I already stated that 9/11 was not justified. Did you read my posts? What I am saying, is the US did bring it on itself, because the US has a history of participating in terrorism. If you don't participate in terrorism, you won't be the target of terrorists. It's a simple way to fight terrorism. Don't participate in it. Terrorism is never justified whether it be the actions of a government or a terrorist organization like Al-Queda.

Sound like you are justifying what the terrorist did.Do you wear a "I heart Osama Bin Laden" t-shirt?

 

[MSgt]

We have to talk and deal in truth and not nationalist fantasies. Our most powerful weapon is the ideas of freedom. However, we are not using our most powerful weapons, we are using bombs and tanks, which give terrorists more power.

You see? This is where you fall short. For the sake of argument..take away our foreign policy in the Middle East. What is left is Arab Islam. With our foriegn policy no longer in the picture...is Israel safe from Muslims? Will the violence against infidels cease to exist? Will Bin Laden tell "Allah" (His other proclaimed reason to murder Christians, Buddhists, and back-slidden Muslims), that he no longer subscribes to the idea of punishing the world for not praising his god? Will Bin Laden and millions of others tell "Allah" that they no longer wish to destroy Israel and vanquish infidels from their "holy lands?"

The answer is no. This is bigger than our foreign policy. Their blasphemy of Islam and their convictions to adhere to it is very real and it needs no American "help."

 

[MSgt]

Sound like you are justifying what the terrorist did.Do you wear a "I heart Osama Bin Laden" t-shirt?[/QUOTE]

Haha. I don't believe that he is trying to "justify" what the terrorist did persay.....but that was funny.

 

[kal-el]

What happened there was not torture............Real torture is what happened at the Hanoi Hilton............

Ok, now you're sounding exactly like that fat, swollen-mouthed, ultra-conservative mouthpiece on the am radio. "It's simply fraternity hijinks" "They're just blowing off steam." What a ****in douchbag, not to mention, he's a big-time hypocrite.

 

[mixedmedia]

I believe, despite a few instances that were beat to death in the media for poitical gain, that our standards are still resolute.

I think the problem is that our standards have progressively become more myth than reality.

What issues are not beat to death in the media for political gain - regardless of which side of the aisle they come from. But trust in this, for many of us, our dismay and revulsion at these instances has nothing to do with politics.

 

[mixedmedia]

You see? This is where you fall short. For the sake of argument..take away our foreign policy in the Middle East. What is left is Arab Islam. With our foriegn policy no longer in the picture...is Israel safe from Muslims? Will the violence against infidels cease to exist? Will Bin Laden tell "Allah" (His other proclaimed reason to murder Christians, Buddhists, and back-slidden Muslims), that he no longer subscribes to the idea of punishing the world for not praising his god? Will Bin Laden and millions of others tell "Allah" that they no longer wish to destroy Israel and vanquish infidels from their "holy lands?"

The answer is no. This is bigger than our foreign policy. Their blasphemy of Islam and their convictions to adhere to it is very real and it needs no American "help."

So what is the answer? I'm a cut to the chase kind of person. What do we do? Do you truly believe that invading Iraq was the right move at the right time? Truly?

 

[MSgt]

So what is the answer? I'm a cut to the chase kind of person. What do we do? Do you truly believe that invading Iraq was the right move at the right time? Truly?

Sure. I don't think it mattered. Unless we are willing to do something about the House of Saud, terrorism will persist.

 

[kal-el]

Unless we are willing to do something about the House of Saud, terrorism will persist.

Exactly. So this stupid "war on terror" is in fact, useless.

 

[mixedmedia]

Sure. I don't think it mattered. Unless we are willing to do something about the House of Saud, terrorism will persist.

Well, I'm going to take a stab at interpreting this and say that in other words we are ****ed? Am I far off?

 

[MSgt]

Well, I'm going to take a stab at interpreting this and say that in other words we are ****ed? Am I far off?

If you want to say that. There is still the Iraq aspect. It offers us great strategic value.

 

[MSgt]

Exactly. So this stupid "war on terror" is in fact, useless.

I didn't say that. Any action in the Middle East is in the right direction. The problem is that we got bogged down in Iraq and didn't continue into Syria.

 

[mixedmedia]

If you want to say that. There is still the Iraq aspect. It offers us great strategic value.

I don't want to say that. It just seems that the Saudi royalty are a pretty intractable bunch. Not to mention the fact that our own administration seems to take a pretty tolerant stance towards their rule.

A peaceful Iraq offers great strategic value perhaps.

 

[mixedmedia]

I didn't say that. Any action in the Middle East is in the right direction. The problem is that we got bogged down in Iraq and didn't continue into Syria.

Why Syria?

And how are we supposed to invade another country when we can't even get a grasp on Iraq?

 

[MSgt]

I don't want to say that. It just seems that the Saudi royalty are a pretty intractable bunch. Not to mention the fact that our own administration seems to take a pretty tolerant stance towards their rule.

A peaceful Iraq offers great strategic value perhaps.

Don't stop with today's President. We are pledged to protect the Sauds. We have protected them with our military and civilian blood in order to protect the world's oil supply for decades. Economies around the globe would be a mess if it depended on an unstable existence between the bigotted Shi'ites and the biggoted Sunni in the Middle East. Until, we can get an alternate energy source, we're stuck. In the mean time, the Srabs treat their people like ****, people like Bin Laden blame us for ALL of their problems, they distort and practice a blashemous form of Islam and lash out at anyone in the western world. America get's the heat of it, because we do the dirty work that the rest of the world benefits from.

Sucks don't it?

 

[kal-el]

I didn't say that. Any action in the Middle East is in the right direction. The problem is that we got bogged down in Iraq and didn't continue into Syria.

Well, we did indeed get bogged down in Iraq, mostly because Bush failed to realize the amount of troops needed to stabilize a Saddam-less Iraq. Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz warned him that we would need alot more troops to control post-war Iraq, but he didn't want to hear it.

 

[kal-el]

Don't stop with today's President. We are pledged to protect the Sauds. We have protected them with our military and civilian blood in order to protect the world's oil supply for decades. Economies around the globe would be a mess if it depended on an unstable existence between the bigotted Shi'ites and the biggoted Sunni in the Middle East. Until, we can get an alternate energy source, we're stuck. In the mean time, the Srabs treat their people like ****, people like Bin Laden blame us for ALL of their problems, they distort and practice a blashemous form of Islam and lash out at anyone in the western world. America get's the heat of it, because we do the dirty work that the rest of the world benefits from.

O man Gunny, I think that post made the most sense to me that you wrote in a while. Good job!:2razz: