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lyndie england

danarhea

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mistermain said:
I just hope you're not my neighbor.

I'm an American. When American civilians are killed in an act of war by cowards who hide in caves with their faces covered, I don't care what their reasoning is. That is the problem with the left. You try to "understand" why they hate us. They do not think logically. Like the left in America they act on emotion. They are animals, and deserve to be treated as such.

Yes, some of them are animals, so we kill their women and children.
 

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Well, I'll dodge the flying bullets here to state simply that Lyndie England has got off with a hand slap. Of course she has! I defy anyone here to go through what the people in those photos (even the ones we have seen, cause you know there were many we didn't, right?) endured and be happy with the perpetrator getting three years. Jeesh. People go to jail for that long for having pot in their car. It's ridiculous.
 

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danarhea said:
Yes, some of them are animals, so we kill their women and children.

We kill their woman and children? Cite one documented instance where a direct order was handed down during the Iraq war for a soldier to kill a child, or a woman who wasn't a threat. I hope you guys live in France or anywhere but here.
 

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danarhea said:
Yes, some of them are animals, so we kill their women and children.


OK NEW POLICY. For now on, no matter what, American military will stay at home and train in our woods. As civilians die, we will ignore it. As Islamics spread their death, we will ignore it. As more and more countries fall to this brand of Islam, we will do nothing. When countries are starving to death, we will eat our burgers and do nothing. As Hindu priests become extinct in India, we will say, "what a shame." As countries as us to intervene, we will say "not our business."

It will all be worth it, because if we act, we might kill some civilians. Good luck.

It's kind of hard being perfect, when your the only one running around dealing with world issues.
 

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mistermain said:
I just hope you're not my neighbor.

I'm an American. When American civilians are killed in an act of war by cowards who hide in caves with their faces covered, I don't care what their reasoning is. That is the problem with the left. You try to "understand" why they hate us. They do not think logically. Like the left in America they act on emotion. They are animals, and deserve to be treated as such.

I don't think it's dawned on you. But they probably say the same thing about us. They probably say something like this: "Those coward Americans flying 50,000 ft dropping their bombs on civilians. Why don't they come and fight us face to face like real men. They are cowards. The American government only understands force. Only understands the language of force and cannot be reasoned with. They do not understand logic." Don't be a blind nationalist man. Be a thinker. I am not justifying the attack on September 11, but I am not going to sit here and "go with the crowd" and let myself to be taken away by blind nationalism. Before we attacked Iraq, I was involved as a veteran speaker, speaking out against the invasion of Iraq. But the US has a long line of cowardly acts of terrorism. Heck, our nation was founded on a crime. The crime of genocide. Massively murdering Native Americans. This country was founded on slavery. It was founded on injustice, not the justice that is written in our constitution.
 

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mixedmedia said:
Well, I'll dodge the flying bullets here to state simply that Lyndie England has got off with a hand slap. Of course she has! I defy anyone here to go through what the people in those photos (even the ones we have seen, cause you know there were many we didn't, right?) endured and be happy with the perpetrator getting three years. Jeesh. People go to jail for that long for having pot in their car. It's ridiculous.


She got what she deserved. Those photos showed humiliation. Not torture. Even a military court must go off of the proof.

3 years behind bars? Doesn't sound like a slap on the wrist to me.
 

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And I am not saying that the US should pursue a policy of isolationism. I just think the US needs to start basing it's foreign policy decisions on principles rather than interests, money and oil.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
I don't think it's dawned on you. But they probably say the same thing about us. They probably say something like this: "Those coward Americans flying 50,000 ft dropping their bombs on civilians. Why don't they come and fight us face to face like real men. They are cowards. The American government only understands force. Only understands the language of force and cannot be reasoned with. They do not understand logic." Don't be a blind nationalist man. Be a thinker. I am not justifying the attack on September 11, but I am not going to sit here and "go with the crowd" and let myself to be taken away by blind nationalism. Before we attacked Iraq, I was involved as a veteran speaker, speaking out against the invasion of Iraq. But the US has a long line of cowardly acts of terrorism. Heck, our nation was founded on a crime. The crime of genocide. Massively murdering Native Americans. This country was founded on slavery. It was founded on injustice, not the justice that is written in our constitution.

Yeah, As our bombs enter buildings through laser guidance, I'm sure that's what they say as they avoid us on the ground and look for crowds of women and children to kill.

It has nothing to do with nationalism. It has everything to do with recognizing that our foriegn policy is not the big factor. You take all of that politicol garbage away that Bin Laden creates with every new video, and what you have left is the reason they murder. They still have their off-shoot version of Islam that demands human sacrifice to please their god in true paganistic form.

Al-Queda is recruiting. Grab a Koran.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
And I am not saying that the US should pursue a policy of isolationism. I just think the US needs to start basing it's foreign policy decisions on principles rather than interests, money and oil.


You mean the world's interest in oil, don't you? Or does only America benefit from keeping stability between Shi'ites and Sunni in the Middle East? The whole world is dirty with this regard. European countries stand back hypocritically pointing fingers as they fill their vehicles up with gas and their government's secretly thank us behind closed doors.
 

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GySgt said:
You mean the world's interest in oil, don't you? Or does only America benefit from keeping stability between Shi'ites and Sunni in the Middle East? The whole world is dirty with this regard. European countries stand back hypocritically pointing fingers as they fill their vehicles up with gas and their government's secretly thank us behind closed doors.

I am sure, their is way to come up with efficient, cost effective alternative energy resources where we wouldn't have such a dependence on oil in our economy. I don't american lives are worth dying for oil when their is approach towards dealing with energy needs, such as finding alternative energy resources. I am sure their is a way. I know, I am not willing to die for oil.
 

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GySgt said:
Yeah, As our bombs enter buildings through laser guidance, I'm sure that's what they say as they avoid us on the ground and look for crowds of women and children to kill.

It has nothing to do with nationalism. It has everything to do with recognizing that our foriegn policy is not the big factor. You take all of that politicol garbage away that Bin Laden creates with every new video, and what you have left is the reason they murder. They still have their off-shoot version of Islam that demands human sacrifice to please their god in true paganistic form.

Al-Queda is recruiting. Grab a Koran.

Have you ever even studied the Qu'ran? How much do you really know about Islam? I am not a Muslim myself, but I am curious to hear how much you really know about this religion.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
I don't think it's dawned on you. But they probably say the same thing about us. They probably say something like this: "Those coward Americans flying 50,000 ft dropping their bombs on civilians. Why don't they come and fight us face to face like real men. They are cowards. The American government only understands force. Only understands the language of force and cannot be reasoned with. They do not understand logic." Don't be a blind nationalist man. Be a thinker. I am not justifying the attack on September 11, but I am not going to sit here and "go with the crowd" and let myself to be taken away by blind nationalism. Before we attacked Iraq, I was involved as a veteran speaker, speaking out against the invasion of Iraq. But the US has a long line of cowardly acts of terrorism. Heck, our nation was founded on a crime. The crime of genocide. Massively murdering Native Americans. This country was founded on slavery. It was founded on injustice, not the justice that is written in our constitution.

I am not following blindly. If that were the case, I would be pro Bush. As it stands I am fairly unhappy with him. The way he has handled Iraq has been less than satisfactory. America has its faults, but to say all we understand is force. We tried reasoning with Iraq. 17 resolutions, and finally somebody said f the u.n. Somebody has to do something about this.

As for the native Americans, and any other act of "terrorism" conducted on our behalf, I truly doubt Bin Laden cares about this stuff. All he or his people care about are what "infractions" have been handed down to them. He accepted help from America at one time. Now he hates us. Bin Laden can eat a dick. I give a **** what their "cause" is. They are the enemy. Get that through your head. The liberals in this country are so busy trying to oust Bush, and blame all the conservatives, that they have lost focus of our true enemy, radical islam. Who's really following blindly? I would not say my opinion is the popular one right now, judging from television and the news.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
I am sure, their is way to come up with efficient, cost effective alternative energy resources where we wouldn't have such a dependence on oil in our economy. I don't american lives are worth dying for oil when their is approach towards dealing with energy needs, such as finding alternative energy resources. I am sure their is a way. I know, I am not willing to die for oil.

The press seems to be able to crack any story nowadays. Why is it I have not heard one story about smuggling oil into the United States. How is it that no hard evidence of oil coming from Iraq has surfaced. If this war is for oil where is it? Nobody seems to be able to answer this for me. Please help me with this one.
 

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mistermain said:
The press seems to be able to crack any story nowadays. Why is it I have not heard one story about smuggling oil into the United States. How is it that no hard evidence of oil coming from Iraq has surfaced. If this war is for oil where is it? Nobody seems to be able to answer this for me. Please help me with this one.


I so wish this war was for oil regardless of what the mental disorders say. I dont know about you guys but I am tired of paying 3bucks a gal. I cnt wait till we start using iraqs oil so we can start paying off some of the war effort and letting the american people have a breather. 50cents a gal sounds awful good to me. What do you guys think?
 

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mistermain said:
The press seems to be able to crack any story nowadays. Why is it I have not heard one story about smuggling oil into the United States. How is it that no hard evidence of oil coming from Iraq has surfaced. If this war is for oil where is it? Nobody seems to be able to answer this for me. Please help me with this one.

I am sorry, I simply do not agree with you. The press cannot crack any story, that I guarantee you. I view the press as part of the "thought police."
 

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mistermain said:
I am not following blindly. If that were the case, I would be pro Bush. As it stands I am fairly unhappy with him. The way he has handled Iraq has been less than satisfactory. America has its faults, but to say all we understand is force. We tried reasoning with Iraq. 17 resolutions, and finally somebody said f the u.n. Somebody has to do something about this.

As for the native Americans, and any other act of "terrorism" conducted on our behalf, I truly doubt Bin Laden cares about this stuff. All he or his people care about are what "infractions" have been handed down to them. He accepted help from America at one time. Now he hates us. Bin Laden can eat a dick. I give a **** what their "cause" is. They are the enemy. Get that through your head. The liberals in this country are so busy trying to oust Bush, and blame all the conservatives, that they have lost focus of our true enemy, radical islam. Who's really following blindly? I would not say my opinion is the popular one right now, judging from television and the news.

The United States is a leading terrorist state. People who work for the CIA have stated time and time again what a mistake it was to invade Iraq. One CIA operative called it a "Christmas gift" to Osama Bin Laden. But I assure you, that America has committed various terrorist acts and it is this reason that we are ourselves are the targets of terrorists. Osama Bin Laden always hated Saddam but he viewed the US invasion of Iraq as an opportunity to strengthen his organization. And he did. The invasion of Iraq has made Osama Bin Laden stronger. It has also made other Islamic terrorist groups stronger. It was a mistake. But the motive behind invading Iraq was not to "fight terror." It was simply used as a pretext to invade that country for oil. The people in the US government are not concerned for the safety of American citizens. They are only concerned with their own safety and with gaining more power. They could care less if American civilians die in terror attacks. If they cared for American citizens, they certainly would have not invaded Iraq and they certainly would have viewed September 11 as a tragedy rather than opportunity to pass tyrannical laws like the "PATRIOT" Act. Their was more than enough laws on the books to go after terrorists, it was just an excuse to pass laws to control people more and to slowly and gradually destroy what little freedom left that americans have.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
I am sorry, I simply do not agree with you. The press cannot crack any story, that I guarantee you. I view the press as part of the "thought police."

That's fine, but why do you feel that we are in Iraq for oil? Is it a hunch? Do you feel that Bush is just too tied in with big oil companies? If so that's fine. I'm just wondering where all this oil is if that's what we're there for. Also, as much as the media hates Bush (can't deny that) it's strange that no oil smuggling scandals have surfaced. That is if your theory of war for oil is correct.
 

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mistermain said:
That's fine, but why do you feel that we are in Iraq for oil? Is it a hunch? Do you feel that Bush is just too tied in with big oil companies? If so that's fine. I'm just wondering where all this oil is if that's what we're there for. Also, as much as the media hates Bush (can't deny that) it's strange that no oil smuggling scandals have surfaced. That is if your theory of war for oil is correct.

Oil is always been a big interest in the Middle East. Ever since the end of World War II. Alot of Cold War competition centers around oil in the Middle East. I mean, their is alot of dictatorships around the world, some of which are worse than Saddam. You don't see us going over their to "liberate" them do you? Wonder why? I guess it's because they don't have any oil like Iraq does. I find that you are incredibly niave to believe that we wouldn't invade Iraq for oil. Heck we almost invaded Saudia Arabia and several Middle Eastern countries for oil back in the 70s until Venezuela sold us oil. The Arab Oil embargo was crushing our economy. I don't think one needs to "smuggle" oil back after occupying a country and setting up a government that suits the needs of the US. One might need to crush the insurgency that have been constantly bombing those oil pipelines though.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
The United States is a leading terrorist state. People who work for the CIA have stated time and time again what a mistake it was to invade Iraq. One CIA operative called it a "Christmas gift" to Osama Bin Laden. But I assure you, that America has committed various terrorist acts and it is this reason that we are ourselves are the targets of terrorists. Osama Bin Laden always hated Saddam but he viewed the US invasion of Iraq as an opportunity to strengthen his organization. And he did. The invasion of Iraq has made Osama Bin Laden stronger. It has also made other Islamic terrorist groups stronger. It was a mistake. But the motive behind invading Iraq was not to "fight terror." It was simply used as a pretext to invade that country for oil. The people in the US government are not concerned for the safety of American citizens. They are only concerned with their own safety and with gaining more power. They could care less if American civilians die in terror attacks. If they cared for American citizens, they certainly would have not invaded Iraq and they certainly would have viewed September 11 as a tragedy rather than opportunity to pass tyrannical laws like the "PATRIOT" Act. Their was more than enough laws on the books to go after terrorists, it was just an excuse to pass laws to control people more and to slowly and gradually destroy what little freedom left that americans have.

September 11th happened before the invasion of Iraq, so that does nothing to explain Bin Laden's hatred for America. We'll have to agree to disagree on the other issue, because I do not believe that Bush or any other person in his cabinet is so evil that they would send our boys to die for corporate gains. It's not that I am blind, I just don't believe they are that demonic (that's what an act of this magnitude would be).

They must be doing something right, because we have not been attacked since Sept. 11th.
 

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mistermain said:
September 11th happened before the invasion of Iraq, so that does nothing to explain Bin Laden's hatred for America. We'll have to agree to disagree on the other issue, because I do not believe that Bush or any other person in his cabinet is so evil that they would send our boys to die for corporate gains. It's not that I am blind, I just don't believe they are that demonic (that's what an act of this magnitude would be).

They must be doing something right, because we have not been attacked since Sept. 11th.

Ohh I believe they are demonic enough to sacrafice our boys for oil. I certainly do. Just because we haven't been attacked since September 11 doesn't mean we won't get attacked again. Really, if the terrorists are determined enough, which I am sure they are, they can eventually launch an attack on the US again. The terrorists are not stupid. They are evil, but they are not stupid. They are waiting patiently for their time to strike. Terrorism is a thinking man's game which requires strategy and thinking. Just because we haven't been attacked yet, doesn't mean we won't.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
Oil is always been a big interest in the Middle East. Ever since the end of World War II. Alot of Cold War competition centers around oil in the Middle East. I mean, their is alot of dictatorships around the world, some of which are worse than Saddam. You don't see us going over their to "liberate" them do you? Wonder why? I guess it's because they don't have any oil like Iraq does. I find that you are incredibly niave to believe that we wouldn't invade Iraq for oil. Heck we almost invaded Saudia Arabia and several Middle Eastern countries for oil back in the 70s until Venezuela sold us oil. The Arab Oil embargo was crushing our economy. I don't think one needs to "smuggle" oil back after occupying a country and setting up a government that suits the needs of the US. One might need to crush the insurgency that have been constantly bombing those oil pipelines though.

I'm naive? All I want is proof that this war is for oil. We have not seen one drop. Where is it? You guys keep talking, but the words don't mean anything.
 

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TimmyBoy said:
Ohh I believe they are demonic enough to sacrafice our boys for oil. I certainly do. Just because we haven't been attacked since September 11 doesn't mean we won't get attacked again. Really, if the terrorists are determined enough, which I am sure they are, they can eventually launch an attack on the US again. The terrorists are not stupid. They are evil, but they are not stupid. They are waiting patiently for their time to strike. Terrorism is a thinking man's game which requires strategy and thinking. Just because we haven't been attacked yet, doesn't mean we won't.

I'm sure we'll be attacked again too, it is inevitable. Our intelligence has stopped some cells in the states from attacking since Sept. 11. They have done some things right.
 

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mistermain said:
I'm naive? All I want is proof that this war is for oil. We have not seen one drop. Where is it? You guys keep talking, but the words don't mean anything.

Here is a caption from the National Security Archive:

Soon after the fighting started, the war developed into an international crisis, not least because Washington and Moscow had significant interests in the region. For both superpowers, credibility was a central consideration. And as Nixon put it, several weeks into the war, "No one is more keenly aware of the stakes: Oil and our strategic position." (Note 9) Both states had already armed their respective Arab and Israeli clients and both launched massive airlifts to sustain the battlefield strength of their allies. Although the Egyptians and Syrians suffered battlefield reverses, their resolve and a determined Israeli counter-attack kept the fighting going. Angered by the U.S. airlift, the Arab petroleum exporting states embargoed oil deliveries to the United States, thus producing a significant energy crisis. While both Moscow and Washington recognized the danger of confrontation and intermittently supported cease-fires, their political commitments made that support equivocal with destabilizing consequences. Superpower tensions over Israeli violations of the 22 October cease-fire escalated to the point where the Nixon administration staged a Defcon III nuclear alert, yet with all of the strains, détente prevented a serious clash.


You can find this document here:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB98/index2.htm

Here is another link:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm

And here is link where Donald Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam in the 80s:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/index.htm
 

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TimmyBoy said:
Here is a caption from the National Security Archive:

Soon after the fighting started, the war developed into an international crisis, not least because Washington and Moscow had significant interests in the region. For both superpowers, credibility was a central consideration. And as Nixon put it, several weeks into the war, "No one is more keenly aware of the stakes: Oil and our strategic position." (Note 9) Both states had already armed their respective Arab and Israeli clients and both launched massive airlifts to sustain the battlefield strength of their allies. Although the Egyptians and Syrians suffered battlefield reverses, their resolve and a determined Israeli counter-attack kept the fighting going. Angered by the U.S. airlift, the Arab petroleum exporting states embargoed oil deliveries to the United States, thus producing a significant energy crisis. While both Moscow and Washington recognized the danger of confrontation and intermittently supported cease-fires, their political commitments made that support equivocal with destabilizing consequences. Superpower tensions over Israeli violations of the 22 October cease-fire escalated to the point where the Nixon administration staged a Defcon III nuclear alert, yet with all of the strains, détente prevented a serious clash.


You can find this document here:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB98/index2.htm

Here is another link:

http://www.globalpolicy.org/security/oil/irqindx.htm

And here is link where Donald Rumsfeld was shaking hands with Saddam in the 80s:

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/index.htm

This is great stuff to support your theory, but I still don't see the proof. What's up with the picture? Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam in the 80's. So what, we used to be buddy buddy with Bin Laden too.
 

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mistermain said:
This is great stuff to support your theory, but I still don't see the proof. What's up with the picture? Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam in the 80's. So what, we used to be buddy buddy with Bin Laden too.

One of the big reasons Rumsfeld was meeting with Saddam to cut a deal on building an oil Pipline that would run from the Eurphrates to the Gulf of Aquaba (not sure if I am spelling that correctly). Part of the deal was also to funnel off profits from the oil pipeline to bribe Isreali Prime Minister Shimon Peres and his labor party to keep from attacking that pipeline. Again, oil has everything to do with our invasion and involvement in the Middle East. American boys are dying for oil and to line the pockets of companies and politicans.
 
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