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Louisiana's bold bid to privatize schools

Phys251

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I can't believe you just said that... What in the hell does antibiotics have to do with evolution, your being very idiotic with your argument...

That was a weak argument all around lol... Geez you are a teacher? Really? Are you serious? What do you teach art class?

Ahhh finger painting ;) Sorry but, that was just to silly and all based on your opinion...

Edit:

How many doctors do you think don't believe in that yet still perform their jobs?

Does doctor Ron Paul believe in evolution, and should he have delivered thousands of babies?

Dodging the points AND resorting to personal insults AND doing all that so quickly? Not the best way to reinforce your position. Point, me; move, you.
 

LibertyBurns

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Dodging the points AND resorting to personal insults AND doing all that so quickly? Not the best way to reinforce your position. Point, me; move, you.

Neither is saying, "he doesn't believe in evolution so, obviously he can't prescribe you medication". I didn't want to make fun of you, I was really just kdding but, all jokes aside, I can't believe an educator said something so silly.

I appologize if I offended your.
 

Layla_Z

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I can't believe you just said that... What in the hell does antibiotics have to do with evolution, your being very idiotic with your argument...

That was a weak argument all around lol... Geez you are a teacher? Really? Are you serious? What do you teach art class?

Ahhh finger painting ;) Sorry but, that was just to silly and all based on your opinion...

Edit:

How many doctors do you think don't believe in that yet still perform their jobs?

Does doctor Ron Paul believe in evolution, and should he have delivered thousands of babies?

Bacteria evolve so antibiotics quit working and stonger ones are needed unless you get rid of them completely. Hence the need to take the entire course of antibiotics.
 

Phys251

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Neither is saying, "he doesn't believe in evolution so, obviously he can't prescribe you medication". I didn't want to make fun of you, I was really just kdding but, all jokes aside, I can't believe an educator said something so silly.

I appologize if I offended your.

It had nothing to do with being offended; I actually got a good laugh out of it!

It had everything to do with the fact that you didn't address some very valid points. Hint: There was a reason I specifically said "antibiotics" and not just "medications."
 

tryreading

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What does creationism and evolution have to do with becoming part of the work force! The state is making christians pay taxes, then they try to tell them they have to teach something not completely proven, no matter the evidence supporting it, that by the way is against some christian religions, i say some because not all of them are so nieve, anyway it is absolutely absurd!

You are arguing from the Libertarian point of view, which some of us think has no or little basis in real life.

But if you think outside the box for a minute, you know that the accepted sciences need to be taught to American students without selective editing for religious reasons. And you also know that teaching ignorance (if such a thing is possible) is wrong and irresponsible. And that the government shouldn't be paying people to do the latter.

By the way, there can be a big issue regarding omitting the teaching of evolution. On this site a couple of years we talked about a college that wouldn't give applicants credit for certain courses because they weren't taught evolution at their religious school, so there was a prerequisite problem. College kids were wronged in that case because the school they trusted didn't teach them well, and the school they chose to attend next wouldn't give them credit for their substandard course work. If I get a chance I'll look up that thread and repost the article.




EDIT: Here are the details on the above issue. Its been four years, so my details were off a little, but here's the story:



Judge says UC can deny religious course credit



(08-12) 17:25 PDT SAN FRANCISCO -- A federal judge says the University of California can deny course credit to applicants from Christian high schools whose textbooks declare the Bible infallible and reject evolution.

Rejecting claims of religious discrimination and stifling of free expression, U.S. District Judge James Otero of Los Angeles said UC's review committees cited legitimate reasons for rejecting the texts - not because they contained religious viewpoints, but because they omitted important topics in science and history and failed to teach critical thinking.

Otero's ruling Friday, which focused on specific courses and texts, followed his decision in March that found no anti-religious bias in the university's system of reviewing high school classes. Now that the lawsuit has been dismissed, a group of Christian schools has appealed Otero's rulings to the Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in San Francisco. [...]

Christian schools in the suit accused the university of rejecting courses that include any religious viewpoint, "any instance of God's guidance of history, or any alternative ... to evolution."

But Otero said in March that the university has approved many courses containing religious material and viewpoints, including some that use such texts as "Chemistry for Christian Schools" and "Biology: God's Living Creation," or that include scientific discussions of creationism as well as evolution.

UC denies credit to courses that rely largely or entirely on material stressing supernatural over historic or scientific explanations, though it has approved such texts as supplemental reading, the judge said.


http://www.sfgate.com/science/artic...ny-religious-course-credit-3273646.php(08-12)
 
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LibertyBurns

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Bacteria evolve so antibiotics quit working and stonger ones are needed unless you get rid of them completely. Hence the need to take the entire course of antibiotics.

So a doctor that doesn't believe we evolved from apes or whatever species, can indeed not believe in organism that evolve? This is what your saying?
 

Phys251

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LibertyBurns, you have not addressed my point about antibiotics.
 

LibertyBurns

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The main argument I keep hearing on every debate is that everyone knows best how another should live, or should I say governemnt knows best. Is this the wrong assumption?

Everyone must be educated in every subject, god forbid he learns a trade in the family business instead of going to school or one learning scripture instead of evolution.

Another argument has popped up, taxes... The government should not pay for those types of schools? Thats what your saying, well the government is a representation of the people right? Then why can't the people decide where their taxes go? Oh well, no, those people shouldn't be able to decide because, obviously they are wrong and they get no choice in the matter. Our way or no way, oh wait nevermind, forgot school is compulsory. :doh

Something is very flawed with todays acceptance of government intervention.

individuals cannot act responsible, that is the consensus. If that is the case why do we think the individuals that make up government are any different?
 

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LibertyBurns, you have not addressed my point about antibiotics.

I did look above your last post. Just because an individual doesnt believe we evolved from something else, doesnt mean he cant see the evolution of the flu strain.

I understand what your getting at, but people can pick and choose what they believe in. If you bunch evolution all in one category I could agree with you completely but, to think so narrowly of people seems foolish.

I'm talking mainly of human evolution, not all evolution, as I said just because they refuse to believe we evolved does not mean that they think other things can't evolve.

Maybe i'm thinking to much out of the box, huh tryreading ;)
 

LibertyBurns

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I did look above your last post. Just because an individual doesnt believe we evolved from something else, doesnt mean he cant see the evolution of the flu strain.

I understand what your getting at, but people can pick and choose what they believe in. If you bunch evolution all in one category I could agree with you completely but, to think so narrowly of people seems foolish.

I'm talking mainly of human evolution, not all evolution, as I said just because they refuse to believe we evolved does not mean that they think other things can't evolve.

Maybe i'm thinking to much out of the box, huh tryreading ;)

Now quoting myself I could argue that, well if basic evolution is not taught in school, then they couldn't become a doctor.

Do all schools that shun human evolution not teach any evolution? Im not arguing that schools don't do this. I'm pretty sure the catholic schools down here teach it lol, either that or my friends must have looked it up on the internet or had friends they learned it from.

Edit:

Not to mention all the education channels we watch as children, not sure if all you old farts had the same opportunity ;) haha... Hey 60 is the new 50 and so on so don't get mad at my little jest. All in good fun :D
 
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Phys251

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I did look above your last post. Just because an individual doesnt believe we evolved from something else, doesnt mean he cant see the evolution of the flu strain.

I understand what your getting at, but people can pick and choose what they believe in. If you bunch evolution all in one category I could agree with you completely but, to think so narrowly of people seems foolish.

I'm talking mainly of human evolution, not all evolution, as I said just because they refuse to believe we evolved does not mean that they think other things can't evolve.

Maybe i'm thinking to much out of the box, huh tryreading ;)

Nope. You still didn't address the point.

When doctors prescribe antibiotics, they specifically instruct the patient not to miss a dose and to "finish the bottle" even if they start feeling better again. Why? Because you have to kill of the disease before it can mutate a resistant strain to the antibiotic. At that point, the patient can become sick again, but the antibiotic does no good.

Why is an understanding of evolution important? Because one of the many, many, many logical flaws that the anti-evolution camp believes in is that "there is no such thing as a mutation that benefits that organism." This is completely and utterly false, and this is just one case of it. A doctor who chooses not to understand this basic principle could make the ridiculous mistake of telling his or her patient to just take enough to feel well.

These are basic FACTS. Cold, hard, irrefutable facts. You can attempt to insult or deny them all you want to, but that cannot change the FACTS.
 

Layla_Z

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So a doctor that doesn't believe we evolved from apes or whatever species, can indeed not believe in organism that evolve? This is what your saying?

I was explaining what antibiotics have to do with evolution. I would not want to go to a doctor who did not have a complete understanding of science which includes evolution. I would not want to go to a doctor who doesn't understand the difference between scientific theory and faith.
 

LibertyBurns

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Nope. You still didn't address the point.

When doctors prescribe antibiotics, they specifically instruct the patient not to miss a dose and to "finish the bottle" even if they start feeling better again. Why? Because you have to kill of the disease before it can mutate a resistant strain to the antibiotic. At that point, the patient can become sick again, but the antibiotic does no good.

Why is an understanding of evolution important? Because one of the many, many, many logical flaws that the anti-evolution camp believes in is that "there is no such thing as a mutation that benefits that organism." This is completely and utterly false, and this is just one case of it. A doctor who chooses not to understand this basic principle could make the ridiculous mistake of telling his or her patient to just take enough to feel well.

These are basic FACTS. Cold, hard, irrefutable facts. You can attempt to insult or deny them all you want to, but that cannot change the FACTS.

As I keep asking, but keep being ignored, a doctor can't believe in an evolving virus's or bacteria if he does not believe in HUMAN evolution? This is the statement you are making.
 

Phys251

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As I keep asking, but keep being ignored, a doctor can't believe in an evolving virus's or bacteria if he does not believe in HUMAN evolution? This is the statement you are making.

Wait, so we're redefining what evolution is?
 

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Wait, so we're redefining what evolution is?

Microevolution is what I'm talking.

Edit:

Still won't answer the question though. I think you know the answer, that has to be the reason you refuse to answer it.
 
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Dittohead not!

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There is some good, some bad to this plan.

Good part of the idea: Parents have a choice as to where to send their kids.
Bad part: Apparently not all parents, just certain ones. Why not extend this to everyone?
Bad part: It includes schools of religious indoctrination that will teach creationist nonsense as science.

Are schools getting state funding required to hire credentialed teachers and teach a basic curriculum, or can they hire people off the street who are willing to work for cheap, and teach whatever the pastor happens to believe? That question is a bit scary.
 

LibertyBurns

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There is some good, some bad to this plan.

Good part of the idea: Parents have a choice as to where to send their kids.
Bad part: Apparently not all parents, just certain ones. Why not extend this to everyone?
Bad part: It includes schools of religious indoctrination that will teach creationist nonsense as science.

Are schools getting state funding required to hire credentialed teachers and teach a basic curriculum, or can they hire people off the street who are willing to work for cheap, and teach whatever the pastor happens to believe? That question is a bit scary.

Not sure what's so scary about it. I'm not afraid of religions for some reason. Even when individuals in that religion try to blow me up ;)
 

ttwtt78640

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There is some good, some bad to this plan.

Good part of the idea: Parents have a choice as to where to send their kids.
Bad part: Apparently not all parents, just certain ones. Why not extend this to everyone?
Bad part: It includes schools of religious indoctrination that will teach creationist nonsense as science.

Are schools getting state funding required to hire credentialed teachers and teach a basic curriculum, or can they hire people off the street who are willing to work for cheap, and teach whatever the pastor happens to believe? That question is a bit scary.

You are starting to see why an agreement was reached to "try" this system in the WORST possible way. You include ONLY the worst of the public schools, that none of your union members want to teach in anyway, the ones with the LEAST educated parents, and HOPE that those parents make VERY poor decisions in choosing their private "alternatives". That should "prove" that (brand new?) private education (when selected mostly by morons) is not better than the "best" of public the schools, since you got rid of the worst of the public schools, in step one of the "experiment". ;-)
 

Boo Radley

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You are starting to see why an agreement was reached to "try" this system in the WORST possible way. You include ONLY the worst of the public schools, that none of your union members want to teach in anyway, the ones with the LEAST educated parents, and HOPE that those parents make VERY poor decisions in choosing their private "alternatives". That should "prove" that (brand new?) private education (when selected mostly by morons) is not better than the "best" of public the schools, since you got rid of the worst of the public schools, in step one of the "experiment". ;-)

In the worst, next to no one wants to teach. espeically if you're going to blame the teacher for not overcoming all the problems there.

And no, you really won't get rid of the worse. As the problem wasn't the schools to start with, but the community and population of the school.
 

Dittohead not!

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Phys251

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Microevolution is what I'm talking.

Edit:

Still won't answer the question though. I think you know the answer, that has to be the reason you refuse to answer it.

Just as I suspected, redefining what evolution is, and then arrogantly accusing me of being the disingenuous one.

Come on, Burns. Are you seriously that opposed to science?
 

Misterveritis

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I totally want to go to Louisiana and start the Islam School of Left Wing Education. I wonder how long Louisiana residents would stand by and let their tax dollars go toward educating children at my school.
As long as you have to compete have at it. It is the government monopoly that causes most of the harm.
 
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