Looks like anti Obamacare propaganda has not worked

[Papa bull]

Do tell the problems you have with the programming and infrastructure design. Please relate their server/database setup and your knowledge of how they planned for the initial rush vs. how they plan to handle the later steady stream when there is no longer a rush.

In other words, please elaborate with details.

Nope. I'll just tell you that I worked as a programmer for one of the largest multi-national corporations in the world for 16 years and was involved in global rollouts of major projects numerous times so I know a thing or two about stress testing, user interfaces and system resource management.

 

[clownboy]

Now they are signing up for free stuff. Wow, i was not expecting you to be so hypocritical so fast. So we are all going to save ourselves some money by getting free health insurance which means all the cries that none of us would be able to afford it was a load of crap.

Those who had insurance are paying higher premiums (go ahead, dispute that). Those who were the entire reason for Obamacare, the small minority who didn't have health insurance, are now signing up for highly subsized plans - that's what I mean by free stuff. Guess who pays in addition to their raised premiums.

 

[clownboy]

I pay TAXES, too. I'm tired of having our insurance rates go up because some people who make good money are too cheap and lazy to buy their own insurance and are using emergency rooms for their healthcare at my expense....and yours. At least with Obamacare they'll have to pay for their own insurance and healthcare. Thats called "personal responsibility"....which is something conservatives seem to have forgotten about.

So, your answer is to pay to add a whole lot more people who will also be using the emergency room - the effect, driving your rates through the roof. Yes, that's the ticket! :mrgreen:

 

[tererun]

Nope. I'll just tell you that I worked as a programmer for one of the largest multi-national corporations in the world for 16 years and was involved in global rollouts of major projects numerous times so I know a thing or two about stress testing, user interfaces and system resource management.

I have worked as a network engineer for companies like IBM, Pepsico, and to a lessert extent TWC and i am saying that this is pretty normal and that programmers always screw the pooch. Yes, they always leave glitches and problems that have to be worked out after release. there has never been a perfect release in history, and your claims that you have actually done it are so blatantly full of crap it amazes me you were not struck by the lightning of truth just for thinking it. I can tell you, if we talked to your bosses we would find out all the ways you fail that you cannot admit to. God damn, if you were that perfect you would not even be here because you would be either at work or enjoying your millions of dollars a second salary for being the most perfect and elite programmer on the planet. Bill gates and Steve Jobs would bow to you. I do not see that happening.

 

[clownboy]

I have worked as a network engineer for companies like IBM, Pepsico, and to a lessert extent TWC and i am saying that this is pretty normal and that programmers always screw the pooch. Yes, they always leave glitches and problems that have to be worked out after release. there has never been a perfect release in history, and your claims that you have actually done it are so blatantly full of crap it amazes me you were not struck by the lightning of truth just for thinking it. I can tell you, if we talked to your bosses we would find out all the ways you fail that you cannot admit to. God damn, if you were that perfect you would not even be here because you would be either at work or enjoying your millions of dollars a second salary for being the most perfect and elite programmer on the planet. Bill gates and Steve Jobs would bow to you. I do not see that happening.

Your very first sentence betrays that you don't know what you're talking about. If you had ever been a "network engineer" for web presense (which can mean a variety of job positions, some that have zilch to do with programming) you'd know about stress testing and failover. Obviously that's not the case.

 

[Slyfox696]

Nope. I'll just tell you that I worked as a programmer for one of the largest multi-national corporations in the world for 16 years and was involved in global rollouts of major projects numerous times so I know a thing or two about stress testing, user interfaces and system resource management.

That may be. So tell us what was wrong with THIS site. You very obviously made the claim the site flopped because of crappy programming and infrastructure design. If you're going to make a statement like that, it suggests you have knowledge of what they did, how they did it and why they did it.

So please explain your position. Because otherwise, I'll just have to believe you were injecting politics into an area which really had nothing to do with it.

 

[Neomalthusian]

I thought it was supposed to be too expensive? That was the propaganda that it would make all health insurance unaffordable.

Damn that Bill Clinton and his propaganda!

The worst problem in the Affordable Care Act, Clinton said, is a provision related to healthcare coverage for families. In some cases, one family member might be able to affordably insure himself or herself through an employer, but not the rest of the family. And the rest of the family could not receive tax subsidies to buy coverage through the healthcare law's exchanges.

"It's obviously not fair, and it's bad policy," Clinton said. LINK

For example, he said an ACA provision that prevents low-income workers who have employer-sponsored coverage from receiving subsidies to help family members purchase insurance is a "bad policy" that needs to be resolved.

He said he believes the provision was a drafting error.LINK

Clinton also pointed to what is probably the most pressing problem in the law’s design. Obamacare was designed to provide Medicaid coverage, through a large national expansion, to all Americans earning up to 138% of the federal poverty level (FDL). Those earning above that level but below 400% of FDL will be eligible for federal subsidies to buy private coverage. But the Supreme Court’s 2012 ruling that the Medicaid expansion must be optional for states has left legions of the working poor with no way to afford insurance.

 

[ReformCollege]

So it looks like lots of activity on the day of the exchange roleout has trashed the Obamacare websites. Pretty much to be expected when you move from a testing phase to live servers and you get hammered. But it also shows that people are fired up about the idea of getting some health insurance and are looking to sign up. Just a little example, how many of this sites people quit last weekend when it was terrible to try and post? Looks like a bunch of you came back when the problem got fixed, and this is not health care.

The republican strategy for destroying Obamacare has relied on two things. one was to get it somehow repealed which they have one last chance to do, and that looks to be failing miserably. They other is to have people not sign up over the next year to cause it to fail. It looks like the second one is failing as people are trying to sign up. Since the exchanges are how the insurance companies will get new customers I doubt they will be allowed to stay down very long. This is big trouble for the Obamacare haters.

How many 26-35 year olds are signing up? This law isn't leaning on how many obese diabetics the exchanges can sign up.

 

[tererun]

Your very first sentence betrays that you don't know what you're talking about. If you had ever been a "network engineer" for web presense (which can mean a variety of job positions, some that have zilch to do with programming) you'd know about stress testing and failover. Obviously that's not the case.

Yes, I also know about things like budgeting and load which means that you do not prep your system to pass the initial load when it will only fall off sharply. Many companies expect first day loads and do some mitigation, but realize they are not going to be perfect and having a non-critical website available for the first day rush every moment is a pretty big waste of resources. I also know that many programming glitches often become visible during high stress and that those testing methods do not always find the ways that users can screw up the system. You are completely ignorant of those realities and expect perfection on the first day. It does not happen. This tells me that you have absolutely no idea how things work in this world, and that you are pretty much the petty user who calls to bitch about a product that they will use anyway. Yes, i have also worked help desk so I know the insane expectations of ignorant whining users.

 

[Moot]

So, your answer is to pay to add a whole lot more people who will also be using the emergency room - the effect, driving your rates through the roof. Yes, that's the ticket! :mrgreen:

No, that's your answer. My answer is to make people pay for their own insurance and healthcare.

 

[clownboy]

Yes, I also know about things like budgeting and load which means that you do not prep your system to pass the initial load when it will only fall off sharply. Many companies expect first day loads and do some mitigation, but realize they are not going to be perfect and having a non-critical website available for the first day rush every moment is a pretty big waste of resources. I also know that many programming glitches often become visible during high stress and that those testing methods do not always find the ways that users can screw up the system. You are completely ignorant of those realities and expect perfection on the first day. It does not happen. This tells me that you have absolutely no idea how things work in this world, and that you are pretty much the petty user who calls to bitch about a product that they will use anyway. Yes, i have also worked help desk so I know the insane expectations of ignorant whining users.

Wow, exactly NONE of that is true and I would advise any company I consulted for to jetison immediately any programming or network engineering outfit who suggested such things.

And there's the truth of it, you work the help desk.

 

[Papa bull]

That may be. So tell us what was wrong with THIS site. You very obviously made the claim the site flopped because of crappy programming and infrastructure design. If you're going to make a statement like that, it suggests you have knowledge of what they did, how they did it and why they did it.

So please explain your position. Because otherwise, I'll just have to believe you were injecting politics into an area which really had nothing to do with it.

The fact that it crapped out tells you that the infrastructure and/or design was crappy. The fact that there were no error messages even though the software failed to work at a basic level tells you that the design was crappy. If you think you can look at output from your browser and know what methodologies were used to build and deliver that page, then you don't know your ass from a hole in the ground about client server applications.

 

[Moot]

Gee, maybe both Daily Caller and Kaiser are lying.

Or California is made up of more than Ventura County...

Gee, or maybe Ventura County Health Plan is an HMO and not a county.


Ventura County Health Plan is delaying its decision to join the exchange as are a few other insurance companies. But more are joining giving Californians more choices than they had before.....


https://www.coveredca.com/news/press-releases/pr-08-07-13.html

 

[ocean515]

Gee, or maybe Ventura County Health Plan is an HMO and not a county.


Ventura County Health Plan is delaying its decision to join the exchange as are a few other insurance companies. But more are joining giving Californians more choices than they had before.....


https://www.coveredca.com/news/press-releases/pr-08-07-13.html

And how does that relate to the fact that some of the largest Health Insurance providers in the Nation have opted out of California's Health Exchange, forcing 10's of thousands to find other health insurance providers?

It would seem to me the "if you like your insurance, you can keep it" promise didn't pan out to well.

Some are not shocked by the truth of this.

I am a bit confused by the link though. I'm not sure how advertising from Cover California establishes anything.

I appreciate the effort though.

 

[tererun]

How many 26-35 year olds are signing up? This law isn't leaning on how many obese diabetics the exchanges can sign up.

Who uses the internet more, old diabetics or young people who might actually want some health care even though they are not sick? I noticed how many old farts look stuff up on that new fangled computer thingy. Your logic does not seem to correspond with reality.

 

[tererun]

Wow, exactly NONE of that is true and I would advise any company I consulted for to jetison immediately any programming or network engineering outfit who suggested such things.

And there's the truth of it, you work the help desk.

It is true, you just do not approach it from that fashion or sell it from that point of view. There is a big difference between a sales pitch and reality. Oh, and santa claws and the easter bunny are fake too, and your mom is the one leaving you money for your teeth that fall out because no way in hell there is a magical being who gives you cash for old rotted body parts that fall off.

edit: One other thing, if a person comes by selling my company a product that never fails and works perfectly and says they do not bother with any aftermarket solutions because they are so perfect that person would get shown the door quickly also.

 

[Moot]

And how does that relate to the fact that some of the largest Health Insurance providers in the Nation have opted out of California's Health Exchange, forcing 10's of thousands to find other health insurance providers?

Some of those large insurance company's will still sell insurance....just not on the exchange. Others are just waiting to see how well the exchange works.

It would seem to me the "if you like your insurance, you can keep it" promise didn't pan out to well. Some are not shocked by the truth of this.

Oh well, that isn't the fault of Obamacare. After all, its still a free market and companies can still make their own decisions where and how they market their products.

I am a bit confused by the link though. I'm not sure how advertising from Cover California establishes anything.

I appreciate the effort though.

Cover California is the insurance exchange. Who else would you suggest advertise and establish which insurance companies are signed up or not?

 

[ReformCollege]

Who uses the internet more, old diabetics or young people who might actually want some health care even though they are not sick? I noticed how many old farts look stuff up on that new fangled computer thingy. Your logic does not seem to correspond with reality.

Youngsters are going to want over priced health insurance because they use a free resource more? Hmmmmm.

 

[tererun]

Youngsters are going to want over priced health insurance because they use a free resource more? Hmmmmm.

but that depends on it being overpriced, which is perception based. Part of the problem of being perception based is it is relative to other things. Since health insurance was already overpriced and people were used to those levels it might not have the sting you expect, especially if they save you money. I have seen one dollar a gallon gasoline, and I flip out with glee when i find gasoline for under 3 dollars a gallon today. So I would not place too much weight on your idea, but I am sure it will make the people who already hate it more angry.

 

[Hypersonic]

Of course they're fired up about it; just like my sisters-in-law any time the State or Feds decide to give something else away for nothing. Tell them there's another opportunity to RAPE those of us who actually WORK for a living, and you'll actually see their lazy asses out of bed before 11am. Nothing new there.



Again, of course people are signing up. Many of them are going to get something for nothing (or damn near nothing).

Why do you consider those people lazy?

 

[ReformCollege]

but that depends on it being overpriced, which is perception based. Part of the problem of being perception based is it is relative to other things. Since health insurance was already overpriced and people were used to those levels it might not have the sting you expect, especially if they save you money. I have seen one dollar a gallon gasoline, and I flip out with glee when i find gasoline for under 3 dollars a gallon today. So I would not place too much weight on your idea, but I am sure it will make the people who already hate it more angry.

No. You're quite wrong here, the ACA quite plainly restricts the medical underwriting range from 5x to 3x. Even overall healthcare costs don't go up, someone who was healthy enough to qualify on the low end of that spectrum automatically is going to see anywhere from a 40%-60% increase. I don't know about you, but I consider anything above market value to be overpriced, and ANY restriction on medical underwriting is by definition artifically inflating prices above market value for this demographic. There is a reason why so many young people didn't have insurance in the first place, they couldn't afford it due to medical underwriting restrictions that would've forced them to pay many multiples more then they should have to for their usage rate of healthcare.

That is why it is so important for the exchanges to sign up so many healthy young people and why they are spending millions of dollars advertising it to this demographic, they are being used to pay for a huge chunk of it. There simply isn't enough tax revenue for the government to be able to afford to provide healthcare at the prices they are promising without A LOT of people who are paying a lot of money into it for relatively little in return.

 

[ReformCollege]

Why do you consider those people lazy?

Question is, why don't you consider them lazy? I'm starting to question your standards of "hard working" already.

 

[Hypersonic]

Question is, why don't you consider them lazy? I'm starting to question your standards of "hard working" already.

Well as a person who has been out of work I understand the difficulty of finding a job, especially a job that affords you health benefits. There are a lot of college educated students out in the world looking for jobs and some of them are working at jobs where it does not utilize their intellectual skills, something they've paid tens of thousands for. I just don't lump all impoverished people utilizing free healthcare as lazy. A lot of people need it.

 

[tererun]

No. You're quite wrong here, the ACA quite plainly restricts the medical underwriting range from 5x to 3x. Even overall healthcare costs don't go up, someone who was healthy enough to qualify on the low end of that spectrum automatically is going to see anywhere from a 40%-60% increase. I don't know about you, but I consider anything above market value to be overpriced, and ANY restriction on medical underwriting is by definition artifically inflating prices above market value for this demographic. There is a reason why so many young people didn't have insurance in the first place, they couldn't afford it due to medical underwriting restrictions that would've forced them to pay many multiples more then they should have to for their usage rate of healthcare.

That is why it is so important for the exchanges to sign up so many healthy young people and why they are spending millions of dollars advertising it to this demographic, they are being used to pay for a huge chunk of it. There simply isn't enough tax revenue for the government to be able to afford to provide healthcare at the prices they are promising without A LOT of people who are paying a lot of money into it for relatively little in return.

That is the idea of insurance. Why you do not understand that health insurance, not healthcare, is socialism pushed onto capitalism which makes it doomed to failure i will never get. Look at it. The idea of insurance is that everyone pays something so when people get hit with huge expense everyone shares the burden because it could be any of us that is hit with the expense. The problem is that we are sucking money off of that for shareholders and executive bonuses. The system where people pay for their own healthcare is one you cannot logically support yourself. The true capitalistic free range health care is where if you do not have the money to pay what the doctors want you do not get service at all. Socialism is why we have medical advances, because people do not have the money to pay mad scientists on their own.

 

[ReformCollege]

Well as a person who has been out of work I understand the difficulty of finding a job, especially a job that affords you health benefits. There are a lot of college educated students out in the world looking for jobs and some of them are working at jobs where it does not utilize their intellectual skills, something they've paid tens of thousands for. I just don't lump all impoverished people utilizing free healthcare as lazy. A lot of people need it.

Eye roll. Philosophers and sociologists with 10,000s of debt aren't exactly individuals with "intellectual skills." And as a college student who is studying biomedical sciences, I can tell you that yes those departments require A LOT less effort and/or intelligence.

Anyways, beyond that point, I don't automatically lump people into lazy or not lazy. But I don't need to judge people as lazy or not, I simply don't believe in handouts. I believe the government has a duty to invest in things such as infrastructure, research, free condoms, yadi yada. But providing a living and/or healthcare isn't the role of the government. There has to be personal accountability, otherwise we'd all just get Ph.D's in nut scratching and hope someone else is willing enough to pick up the slack.