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Looking for healthy debates across the divide

Todzilla

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Hi, I'm a moderate/liberal who really wants to understand the folks on "the other side." I'll admit I just don't understand Trump supporters. I think he's the biggest threat to America since the Civil War (I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I do believe it to be true). I'm hoping to understand other points of viewing and have been searching for a place to engage that's not just another liberal bubble.

I hope I've found the right place.
 

<alt>doxygen

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Hi, I'm a moderate/liberal who really wants to understand the folks on "the other side." I'll admit I just don't understand Trump supporters. I think he's the biggest threat to America since the Civil War (I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I do believe it to be true). I'm hoping to understand other points of viewing and have been searching for a place to engage that's not just another liberal bubble.

I hope I've found the right place.

Welcome!

We definitely have Trump supporters here. Whether you will learn anything about them from them is an interesting question. If that doesn't make sense, just try.;)
 

ttwtt78640

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Hi, I'm a moderate/liberal who really wants to understand the folks on "the other side." I'll admit I just don't understand Trump supporters. I think he's the biggest threat to America since the Civil War (I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I do believe it to be true). I'm hoping to understand other points of viewing and have been searching for a place to engage that's not just another liberal bubble.

I hope I've found the right place.

Howdy and welcome to the "right place".

There are few liberal bubbles here, but not too many. We were offered two viable choices for POTUS in the 2016 general election - Trump or Clinton. I voted for neither but many, if not most, who were deemed to be Trump supporters were simply not Hillary supporters.

Many, if not most, who are now called Trump supporters are simply wanting to let Trump pretend to govern and to exercise (only) the powers granted him by having been elected POTUS. The bigger threat, IMHO, is treating the POTUS (as oddly as he may act) as if he was not truly (legitimately?) elected and that somehow the office of the POTUS should be 'temporarily' denied its constitutional powers because Trump and RUSSIA!
 

biglawnmower

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Hi, I'm a moderate/liberal who really wants to understand the folks on "the other side." I'll admit I just don't understand Trump supporters. I think he's the biggest threat to America since the Civil War (I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I do believe it to be true). I'm hoping to understand other points of viewing and have been searching for a place to engage that's not just another liberal bubble.

I hope I've found the right place.

the biggest threat since the civil war left office in january 2017. now trump has to pick up all the pieces.
 

biglawnmower

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examples?

ive never seen another US president send white house aides to the funeral of an attempted cop killer. thats a massive cause for division.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ides-to-attend-michael-browns-funeral-service

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/24/obama-white-house-aides-michael-brown-funeral

A grand jury was called and given extensive evidence from Robert McCulloch, the St. Louis County Prosecutor. On November 24, 2014, McCulloch announced the St. Louis County grand jury had decided not to indict Wilson.[9] On March 4, 2015, the U.S. Department of Justice reported the conclusion of its own investigation and cleared Wilson of civil rights violations in the shooting. It found forensic evidence supported the officer's account, that witnesses who corroborated the officer's account were credible, and that witnesses who had incriminated him were not credible, with some admitting they had not directly seen the events.[10][11] The U.S. Department of Justice concluded Wilson shot Brown in self-defense.[12][13]
 

<alt>doxygen

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Howdy and welcome to the "right place".

There are few liberal bubbles here, but not too many. We were offered two viable choices for POTUS in the 2016 general election - Trump or Clinton. I voted for neither but many, if not most, who were deemed to be Trump supporters were simply not Hillary supporters.

Many, if not most, who are now called Trump supporters are simply wanting to let Trump pretend to govern and to exercise (only) the powers granted him by having been elected POTUS. The bigger threat, IMHO, is treating the POTUS (as oddly as he may act) as if he was not truly (legitimately?) elected and that somehow the office of the POTUS should be 'temporarily' denied its constitutional powers because Trump and RUSSIA!

It would really help if Trump knew and cared what his Constitutional powers and limitations are. All indications are that he thinks he shouldn't be concerned with that sort of thing. He's never had to care much for rules in his life.

I oppose the clown, but not nearly to the extent indicated by your last sentence. I DO think Trump exposes a big flaw in the Constitution that should be addressed, in the proper manner, of course.
 

Todzilla

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ive never seen another US president send white house aides to the funeral of an attempted cop killer. thats a massive cause for division.

https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...ides-to-attend-michael-browns-funeral-service

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/24/obama-white-house-aides-michael-brown-funeral

Your depiction of Michael Brown as "an attempted cop killer" is specious. Even if it were true, it's hard to understand why anyone could consider attending his funeral was the greatest threat to America since the Civil War.
 

biglawnmower

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Your depiction of Michael Brown as "an attempted cop killer" is specious. Even if it were true, it's hard to understand why anyone could consider attending his funeral was the greatest threat to America since the Civil War.

the department of justice believes it to be true. can you tell us how your "opinion" means more than their concluded investigations?

a president that sends their personal WH aides to the funeral of someone tryin to murder a cop with their own gun (confirmed) is the very definition of tryin to force a civil war.

notice how quick you are to run to obama hussiens side...
 

<alt>doxygen

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the department of justice believes it to be true. can you tell us how your "opinion" means more than their concluded investigations?

a president that sends their personal WH aides to the funeral of someone tryin to murder a cop with their own gun (confirmed) is the very definition of tryin to force a civil war.

notice how quick you are to run to obama hussiens side...

Your opinions that something that happened there is "the greatest threat to America since the Civil War", and/or "tryin to force a civil war" just show that you aren't playing with a full deck.

Try harder. Maybe there are some cards under the couch cushions.
 

Sampson Simpson

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Hi, I'm a moderate/liberal who really wants to understand the folks on "the other side." I'll admit I just don't understand Trump supporters. I think he's the biggest threat to America since the Civil War (I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I do believe it to be true). I'm hoping to understand other points of viewing and have been searching for a place to engage that's not just another liberal bubble.

I hope I've found the right place.

i don't think there is such a place, most forums are full of right wing trolls that just fling poo and don't actually state any of their reasoning, defend their positions, actually put forth an argument. A bunch of childish one liners, copy and pasting, and dumb deflections makes up too much. but I'v ebeen on a few forums and it seems they are all this way, and moderation on these forums allow trolls to infest these forums . Its near impossible to understand the other side when they have a completely made up version of the world and aren't evne arguing the same facts and real issues, just made up ones
 

biglawnmower

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Your opinions that something that happened there is "the greatest threat to America since the Civil War", and/or "tryin to force a civil war" just show that you aren't playing with a full deck.

Try harder. Maybe there are some cards under the couch cushions.

yawn. alt left radicals comin in to the rescue for obama hussien...the greatest divider in american history since the civil war
 

Hawkeye10

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Hi, I'm a moderate/liberal who really wants to understand the folks on "the other side." I'll admit I just don't understand Trump supporters. I think he's the biggest threat to America since the Civil War (I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I do believe it to be true). I'm hoping to understand other points of viewing and have been searching for a place to engage that's not just another liberal bubble.

I hope I've found the right place.

Welcome.

I dont generally feel like I am on a side because my brain has been seeped in Alan Watts and Jung and Zen...all stuff that is way out of favor now....but I do like Trump and Jordan Peterson and Paglia so maybe I am.

I love conversations and fun....Look me up sometime!
 

Bullseye

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Howdy and welcome to the "right place".

There are few liberal bubbles here, but not too many. We were offered two viable choices for POTUS in the 2016 general election - Trump or Clinton. I voted for neither but many, if not most, who were deemed to be Trump supporters were simply not Hillary supporters.

Many, if not most, who are now called Trump supporters are simply wanting to let Trump pretend to govern and to exercise (only) the powers granted him by having been elected POTUS. The bigger threat, IMHO, is treating the POTUS (as oddly as he may act) as if he was not truly (legitimately?) elected and that somehow the office of the POTUS should be 'temporarily' denied its constitutional powers because Trump and RUSSIA!
And some of cut through the Reality TV fog and look at results. And for the most part are moderately surprised at how well things have gone so far. Not perfect by any means, and misguided IMHO sometimes. But more Americans are working for more money and keeping more of what they make, American manufacturing is coming back, consumer confidence AND business confidence are riding high. But Trump takes no **** and he TWEETS, so there's that.
 

ttwtt78640

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And some of cut through the Reality TV fog and look at results. And for the most part are moderately surprised at how well things have gone so far. Not perfect by any means, and misguided IMHO sometimes. But more Americans are working for more money and keeping more of what they make, American manufacturing is coming back, consumer confidence AND business confidence are riding high. But Trump takes no **** and he TWEETS, so there's that.

Yet in these allegedly wonderful (best ever?) economic times we have an annual federal deficit nearing $1T. That was said to be terrible when Obama was POTUS and is somehow now OK with too many folks. I realize that congress, not the POTUS, controls spending but Trump says that he is about to shutdown the government if he does not get specific additional spending.

The primary cause of the continuous flow of illegal immigrants into the US is that they can get jobs in the US. Neither Trump nor congress is doing anything to prevent the employment of millions of illegal immigrants. The fact that many can play the claim asylum card and be released until their hearing (no show?) date is a symptom of the problem - not its primary cause.
 

Bullseye

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Yet in these allegedly wonderful (best ever?) economic times we have an annual federal deficit nearing $1T.
No, we don't. The deficit stands at $303 billion - which is still too high - write your Congressmen and Senators and tell them to slow down spending, which is the real problem
ttwtt said:
That was said to be terrible when Obama was POTUS and is somehow now OK with too many folks.
Again, NO, it's not. There is lots of commentary on the need to lower spending.

tttwtt said:
I realize that congress, not the POTUS, controls spending but Trump says that he is about to shutdown the government if he does not get specific additional spending.
So what?
ttwtt said:
The primary cause of the continuous flow of illegal immigrants into the US is that they can get jobs in the US. Neither Trump nor congress is doing anything to prevent the employment of millions of illegal immigrants. The fact that many can play the claim asylum card and be released until their hearing (no show?) date is a symptom of the problem - not its primary cause.
This thread isn't about illegal immigration.
 

Lovebug

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Hi, I'm a moderate/liberal who really wants to understand the folks on "the other side." I'll admit I just don't understand Trump supporters. I think he's the biggest threat to America since the Civil War (I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I do believe it to be true). I'm hoping to understand other points of viewing and have been searching for a place to engage that's not just another liberal bubble.

I hope I've found the right place.

Good luck with that. Trying to understand and having already formed an opinion is interesting. Let's hope you'll find what you are looking for.
 

Lovebug

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i don't think there is such a place, most forums are full of right wing trolls that just fling poo and don't actually state any of their reasoning, defend their positions, actually put forth an argument. A bunch of childish one liners, copy and pasting, and dumb deflections makes up too much. but I'v ebeen on a few forums and it seems they are all this way, and moderation on these forums allow trolls to infest these forums . Its near impossible to understand the other side when they have a completely made up version of the world and aren't evne arguing the same facts and real issues, just made up ones

and there you have it. Some opinions count, others are to be dismissed. That is putting forth an argument.
 

ttwtt78640

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No, we don't. The deficit stands at $303 billion - which is still too high - write your Congressmen and Senators and tell them to slow down spending, which is the real problem
Again, NO, it's not. There is lots of commentary on the need to lower spending.

So what?
This thread isn't about illegal immigration.

Yes we do. I also note that you include no source whatsoever for your assertion as to where "the deficit stands" (whatever that might mean).

The federal deficit (which is often less than the national debt increse, BTW) for the fiscal years of "Trump" budgets was $665B in FY2017, $833B in FY2018 and is projected to be $984B for FY2019. That is the basis for my factual claim that the federal deficit is nearly $1T (or $1000B).

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306
 

marke

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Hi, I'm a moderate/liberal who really wants to understand the folks on "the other side." I'll admit I just don't understand Trump supporters. I think he's the biggest threat to America since the Civil War (I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I do believe it to be true). I'm hoping to understand other points of viewing and have been searching for a place to engage that's not just another liberal bubble.

I hope I've found the right place.

What is it that scares people about Trump? Most people who oppose Trump have no idea what democrat socialism has done to the US economy in the past and what even worse things it will do to the US economy in the future. People should thank God for Trump now before he is replaced by a demon democrat devil dog in the voting fraud future.
 

Bullseye

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Yes we do. I also note that you include no source whatsoever for your assertion as to where "the deficit stands" (whatever that might mean).
My apologies for forgetting to mention my source was the Congressional Budget Office which compiles data from Treasury reports.
ttwtt said:
The federal deficit (which is often less than the national debt increse, BTW) for the fiscal years of "Trump" budgets was $665B in FY2017, $833B in FY2018 and is projected to be $984B for FY2019. That is the basis for my factual claim that the federal deficit is nearly $1T (or $1000B).
Projections aren't facts.

https://www.thebalance.com/us-deficit-by-year-3306306[/QUOTE]
Deficits are year by year actually fiscal years. The deficit for the CURRENT fiscal year that started on 1 October is $303 billion - a lot more than should be but nowhere near $1T.
 

Sampson Simpson

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i don't think there is such a place, most forums are full of right wing trolls that just fling poo and don't actually state any of their reasoning, defend their positions, actually put forth an argument. A bunch of childish one liners, copy and pasting, and dumb deflections makes up too much. but I'v ebeen on a few forums and it seems they are all this way, and moderation on these forums allow trolls to infest these forums . Its near impossible to understand the other side when they have a completely made up version of the world and aren't evne arguing the same facts and real issues, just made up ones

See, very next post. This is the dumb, childish idiocy that you will see far too often from the other side
yawn. alt left radicals comin in to the rescue for obama hussien...the greatest divider in american history since the civil war
 

Conaeolos

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Hi, I'm a moderate/liberal who really wants to understand the folks on "the other side." I'll admit I just don't understand Trump supporters. I think he's the biggest threat to America since the Civil War (I know that sounds like hyperbole, but I do believe it to be true). I'm hoping to understand other points of viewing and have been searching for a place to engage that's not just another liberal bubble.

I hope I've found the right place.
Welcome.

I am not sure you’ll reach your objective just by reading. There is a lot of squeaky wheels here and most more grounded voices tend to just let them go on their tangents. I am a Trump supporter. Who doesn’t think Obama is the anti-Christ and may have even voted Hillary if Republicans had put a worse candidate.
Happy to answer any question. If your interested.
 
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