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London fire live updates: Blaze engulfs apartment block

Manc Skipper

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I don't care who it is. If it is found that this has been ignored as other posts are implying, then yes, they should be held criminally responsible.
The Mayor at the time was a New Yorker. Boris Johnson. He closed ten fire stations last year, including the three nearest this fire.

When questioned on his decision in an open meeting...


 

Unitedwestand13

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I just listened to one survivor woken by screams to say that he heard no fire alarms. I've heard no comment this morning from survivors talking about water systems going.

The building was recently renovated and some survivors are blaming the cladding for the speed the building caught fire.

Horrible.
Major Disasters do not just happen, they are caused by a chain of critical events.

A lot of major fire disasters are caused by a chain of events.
 

Hawkeye10

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Major Disasters do not just happen, they are caused by a chain of critical events.

A lot of major fire disasters are caused by a chain of events.
Ya, and it sure looks like a string of things went wrong here, I assume that there will be a report, there better be, I will be interested to see what is in it.

Looks like another case of "we just cant seem to get that done right anymore".
 

Aristaeus

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The question of the maintenance team is superficial. But Khan's supporter and the Labor Party will deflect responsibility in that direction. That is sure. But the inhabitants were poor and the City needs cash for other things. But that is what happens, when private goods are produced by public enterprise. There are conflicts of interest and the situation is intransparent. The results are often worse that here, but usually not so spectacular.
Stop making a fool of yourself. This literally has nothing to do with Khan.

1) The maintenance of this building was not under the control of the mayor of London. It was controlled by KTMCO which is also not under the mayor's jurisdiction.

2) The refurbishment was done before Khan even became mayor.
 

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From the sound of it some people waited a very long time for the fire to come and get them, as they hoped for help that was never coming.

What an awful way to die.
 

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What started this fire?
 

sanman

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What started this fire?
Some reports said it was an exploding refrigerator. But the building does have a past history of power surges due to faulty electrical wiring, which has previously caused appliances to overload and smoke.
 

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Stop making a fool of yourself. This literally has nothing to do with Khan.

1) The maintenance of this building was not under the control of the mayor of London. It was controlled by KTMCO which is also not under the mayor's jurisdiction.

2) The refurbishment was done before Khan even became mayor.
That is, what he would like. But his responsibility is for the safety of the people living in the City via in in this case the fire department and police that were responsible for monitoring the security of this high rise, where they had allowed flammable substances to be plastered on the outside and had not responded to warnings of the place being at danger of fire and without a warning system. You cannot point at building and security measures inadequacy, because they are old as an excuse. It might explain the state, but it does not justify allowing a danger to continue. Furthermore he is responsible for the inhabitants of the Council Estates, which had not maintained the necessary safety measures because of too little investment being made available. A slumlord is responsible for the dead.
 
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sanman

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Furthermore, this tragedy is a symptom of dilapidated socialist infrastructure - a Big Govt disaster. Labor is the party of Big Govt.

The Left are preemptively jumping in with an argument of Rich versus Poor, whereas it was the government that was running this building. It looks as if the Left are behaving in a predatory manner to hijack the narrative, and keep attention away from bad government practices.
 

Andalublue

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That is, what he would like. But his responsibility is for the safety of the people living in the City via in in this case the fire department and police that were responsible for monitoring the security of this high rise, where they had allowed flammable substances to be plastered on the outside and had not responded to warnings of the place being at danger of fire and without a warning system. You cannot point at building and security measures inadequacy, because they are old as an excuse. It might explain the state, but it does not justify allowing a danger to continue.
I'm afraid you are showing how little you know about the governance of London.

Firstly, yes the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority, which governs the fire service, is body within the Greater London Authority of which Sadiq Khan has been mayor for a year. I have no doubt that any inquiry into the fire will examine whether certificates, warnings, and advice from the fire service to the block management were correct, and whether there was anything about the service's response to the fire that could have been inadequate. If there were problems, then I'm sure the mayor will address them. Whether he would therefore be personally culpable for those mistakes is a very different matter. It would be unreasonable to suppose that if there are systemic failures on the LFEPA he would be likely to have identified them and put them right in the space of 12 months. Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone both had 8 years to do so, yet Grenfell House still happened.

Second point,
Furthermore he is responsible for the inhabitants of the Council Estates, which had not maintained the necessary safety measures because of too little investment being made available. A slumlord is responsible for the dead.
...is just wrong. The GLA is not responsible for council estates, the council is. In this case the Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, which owns the block and the TMO (Tenant Management Organisation) that was created to manage the block. The GLA plays no part in ownership, management or policy setting for the block. If you are wanting to find local government responsibility for this incident you need to look a Kensington and Chelsea and the leader of that council, Nick Paget-Brown.
 

Andalublue

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Furthermore, this tragedy is a symptom of dilapidated socialist infrastructure - a Big Govt disaster. Labor is the party of Big Govt.
And yet the borough council that owns and manages this block has been Conservative-run since the borough was created in 1964.

The Left are preemptively jumping in with an argument of Rich versus Poor, whereas it was the government that was running this building.
It was the Conservative-run local authority running the building.

It looks as if the Left are behaving in a predatory manner to hijack the narrative, and keep attention away from bad government practices.
There may indeed be bad government practices to be uncovered, but if so, I've no doubt they will apply to Labour-run, Conservative-run, or LibDem-run councils in equal measure. Far from it being left-wing politicians in the UK trying to stoke up partisan discord, it would appear to be no-nothing outsiders hoping desperately to do so.
 

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I'm afraid you are showing how little you know about the governance of London.

Firstly, yes the London Fire and Emergency Planning Authority, which governs the fire service, is body within the Greater London Authority of which Sadiq Khan has been mayor for a year. I have no doubt that any inquiry into the fire will examine whether certificates, warnings, and advice from the fire service to the block management were correct, and whether there was anything about the service's response to the fire that could have been inadequate. If there were problems, then I'm sure the mayor will address them. Whether he would therefore be personally culpable for those mistakes is a very different matter. It would be unreasonable to suppose that if there are systemic failures on the LFEPA he would be likely to have identified them and put them right in the space of 12 months. Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone both had 8 years to do so, yet Grenfell House still happened.

Second point,...is just wrong. The GLA is not responsible for council estates, the council is. In this case the Borough of Kensington and Chelsea, which owns the block and the TMO (Tenant Management Organisation) that was created to manage the block. The GLA plays no part in ownership, management or policy setting for the block. If you are wanting to find local government responsibility for this incident you need to look a Kensington and Chelsea and the leader of that council, Nick Paget-Brown.
True. I am not much into London politics. That is why I was relying on BBC and friends that do politics in London. Of course the building belonged to a subordinated entity and of course ther is a management company. That only fools those that want to be, so I was told this morning. It is like attributing the conditions in a prison to the company running it: wishful thinking or subterfuge. So, while those two more or less confirmed each other you reject it. The only point, where you are right is that the mayor on a social ticket has only been there about a year. During that time the question is said to have been raised.
 

Andalublue

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True. I am not much into London politics. That is why I was relying on BBC and friends that do politics in London. Of course the building belonged to a subordinated entity
This is what you're not getting. The individual London boroughs are not in any way subordinated to the GLA, they simply have different areas of responsibility. The leader of Kensington and Chelsea Council is not answerable in any way to Sadiq Khan.
 
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