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Liz Truss already out as British PM

Well, this Brexit business plus loads of tax cuts turned out to be BRILLIANT, and everyone involved should get the Nobel Prize for Smartguy.
 
This whole thing is disastrous for the Conservatives, who are currently 36 points down in the polls. They could lose hundreds of seats the next election.
 


tldr video on why Truss collapsed so fast.
 
Luce said:
Well, this Brexit business plus loads of tax cuts turned out to be BRILLIANT, and everyone involved should get the Nobel Prize for Smartguy.
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It's spelled 'Noble' ya illiterate ignoramus.
 
When a trashy "newspaper" like the Daily Star creates a powerful but factual meme by casting the PM vs a lettuce for lasting abilities.....

SMH



That was the livestream they ran, starting on the 10th October.
 
Luce said:
This is how parliaments roll. You don't get to vote for the prime minister, either way.
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They are an elected dictatorship.
 
Luce said:
This is how parliaments roll. You don't get to vote for the prime minister, either way.
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No, normal parliamentary systems don't give an absolute majority to one party, and most have rules that allow triggered elections if the ruling government has done something wrong.
 
PeteEU said:
No, normal parliamentary systems don't give an absolute majority to one party, and most have rules that allow triggered elections if the ruling government has done something wrong.
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Where does that disagree with my statement?
 
Luce said:
Where does that disagree with my statement?
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Well the UK parliament is quite unique, as it is very anti democratic...hell one chamber is unelected. So throwing all parliamentary systems under the same truck because of what has happened in the UK is wrong.

What has happened with Boris, May, Truss in the UK (as being replaced internally in the party) would rarely happen in other countries and if a PM is replaced by his/her own party, then the pressure for holding new elections is massive. In most cases the resignation of a PM would automatically mean a new election, as most countries either have rules for this, or run coalition governments or minority governments that need backing to stay in power.

For example, Sweden has had an election months ago and just got a right wing government. They do not have a majority of seats in parliament, but are backed by other parties not in government...for now. So say the PM resigns because he lied like Boris...the government could on paper negotiate to find a replacement without an election, but the realistic thing that would happen would be a new election.
 
PeteEU said:
Well the UK parliament is quite unique, as it is very anti democratic...hell one chamber is unelected. So throwing all parliamentary systems under the same truck because of what has happened in the UK is wrong.

What has happened with Boris, May, Truss in the UK (as being replaced internally in the party) would rarely happen in other countries and if a PM is replaced by his/her own party, then the pressure for holding new elections is massive. In most cases the resignation of a PM would automatically mean a new election, as most countries either have rules for this, or run coalition governments or minority governments that need backing to stay in power.

For example, Sweden has had an election months ago and just got a right wing government. They do not have a majority of seats in parliament, but are backed by other parties not in government...for now. So say the PM resigns because he lied like Boris...the government could on paper negotiate to find a replacement without an election, but the realistic thing that would happen would be a new election.
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But Sweden also had a switch of PM in november last year after Stefan Löfven resigned as leader of the Swedish Social Democrats and thus PM, leading to Magdalena Andersson being elected new leader by her party, and then confirmed by the Riksdag (parliament) as PM. The ruling party changing ruler in the middle of a parliament, and it leading to a PM switch is not that unusual.
 
joluoto said:
But Sweden also had a switch of PM in november last year after Stefan Löfven resigned as leader of the Swedish Social Democrats and thus PM, leading to Magdalena Andersson being elected new leader by her party, and then confirmed by the Riksdag (parliament) as PM. The ruling party changing ruler in the middle of a parliament, and it leading to a PM switch is not that unusual.
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It varies by country but when it comes to the UK, the basic parliamentary flaw lies in the lack of proportional representation.

As such in practically most other Western countries the winner-takes-all principle is either precluded or at least tempered, thus prohibiting that a party like the Tories (in 2019) gets a massive 365 seats (56 pct of the Commons) at "only" 43.6 pct of the vote, all of that at the expense of the second (Labour).

That practically excludes any vote of (no) confidence from success, seeing how any opposition will never get enough votes from the government party to get it carried.

Of course this (mine) is just a a general example and cannot apply to the case you cite, seeing how even the (whole) Riksdag held no objections.
 
joluoto said:
But Sweden also had a switch of PM in november last year after Stefan Löfven resigned as leader of the Swedish Social Democrats and thus PM, leading to Magdalena Andersson being elected new leader by her party, and then confirmed by the Riksdag (parliament) as PM. The ruling party changing ruler in the middle of a parliament, and it leading to a PM switch is not that unusual.
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It is unusual. How many times has it happened? Not many. And the only reason that it was allowed, was that the left wing government and its backers did not want an election because they were down in the polls.

My point is also, that a decision to replace the PM is not up to one party in most cases. Sure the SD had to replace their leader, but it was the SD lead government backers that allowed that leader to become PM.
 
PeteEU said:
What has happened with Boris, May, Truss in the UK (as being replaced internally in the party) would rarely happen in other countries and if a PM is replaced by his/her own party, then the pressure for holding new elections is massive. In most cases the resignation of a PM would automatically mean a new election, as most countries either have rules for this, or run coalition governments or minority governments that need backing to stay in power.
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We elect MP's here. We don't elect a President like the USA does. You can see the difference because the USA had to wait for Trump's full term to end to kick him out.

Deride our system as much as you wish but we've seen Boris fail to survive his full term. We've seen Truss out within 44 days - imagine if we had to survive Boris or Truss for 5 years then get back to me.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
We elect MP's here. We don't elect a President like the USA does. You can see the difference because the USA had to wait for Trump's full term to end to kick him out.

Deride our system as much as you wish but we've seen Boris fail to survive his full term. We've seen Truss out within 44 days - imagine if we had to survive Boris or Truss for 5 years then get back to me.
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Yes you elect MPs, and do does all of Europe. But normally a PM that resigns means new election with a few exceptions.

My point is that on the second resignation, you have to expect the honourable thing and what is best for democracy and the country... A new election and let the people decide.

Instead the current conservatives are using "we are at war" excuses to not have an election.
 
PeteEU said:
It is unusual. How many times has it happened? Not many. And the only reason that it was allowed, was that the left wing government and its backers did not want an election because they were down in the polls.

My point is also, that a decision to replace the PM is not up to one party in most cases. Sure the SD had to replace their leader, but it was the SD lead government backers that allowed that leader to become PM.
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In Finland it happens alot. In 2019 Antti Rinne had to resign as Social Democrat leader and PM because the Post workers' strike and the Center Party flexing their muscles, and was replaced by new Social Democrat leader Sanna Marin. Before that in 2014 the NCP led government saw their PM Jyrki Katainen resign in order to get EU Commission seat and he was replaced by new NCP leader Alexander Stubb. In 2010 Matti Vanhanen decided to resign as PM during his second government, and new Center Party leader Mari Kiviniemi took his place as PM. Speaking og Vanhanen, he first became PM in 2003, when Center Party leader and PM Anneli Jäätteenmäki had to resign due to the Iraq Gate scandal. In Parliamentary systems it is usual that the ruling party leader might change and thus a new PM is appointed, as long as the new PM controls Parliament. Are the Tories incredibly chaotic right now, yes. They will have a third PM for the same Parliament. That's a clear sign of weakness, and proof they have no idea what they are doing. But is completely within parliamentary practice? Yes.
 
joluoto said:

Liz Truss resigns: PM's exit kicks off another Tory leadership race​


That was fast, but she was always going to be a disaster, the worst possible pick. Maybe now she can go back to talk about Pork Markets.th
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this is also evidence that the voting tory's are complete morons to the office of prime minister. This now has happened twice, the first time they chose the idiot known as Bozo the clown and now Terrible Truss, who is next, the ghost of Margaret Thatcher?
 
Peter King said:
this is also evidence that the voting tory's are complete morons to the office of prime minister. This now has happened twice, the first time they chose the idiot known as Bozo the clown and now Terrible Truss, who is next, the ghost of Margaret Thatcher?
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Maggie's ghost would be terrifying, but she would not be this incompetent.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
We elect MP's here. We don't elect a President like the USA does. You can see the difference because the USA had to wait for Trump's full term to end to kick him out.
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Where I fully agree on the imprudence of comparing the UK parliamentary system to that of the US (or either/both to any other country for that matter), I'd nevertheless add the caveat to the above that impeachment of a US Prez. can get him out of office as well, if successful/leading to conviction.

Irrespective of the fact that the procedure has never been seen thru to the end, although in Nixon's case everything was pointing to their being a first, had Tricky Dick not forestalled it all by scarpering all by himself.
Infinite Chaos said:
Deride our system as much as you wish but we've seen Boris fail to survive his full term. We've seen Truss out within 44 days - imagine if we had to survive Boris or Truss for 5 years then get back to me.
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Where that speaks for the cabinet and party in both instances, all it would have taken for both twits to remain ensconced is for their followers to stand firm on keeping their guy/gal in the seat.

Pretty much like both houses in DC actually did with Trump.

The issue discussed here seems to be, leastwise to me, of how one can get rid of a deplorable in the driver's seat WITHOUT the ruling party supplying the necessary support for the venue.

But, to take up Pete's examples, even countries with proportional representation have difficulties in so doing, unless the ruling party falls short of parliamentary majority (IOW under 50+ pct) and need rely on coalescing with another party or at least finding sufficient tolerance among another party or other parties, in order to be able to continue governance.

Said party/parties then turning on it and bringing its governance down.

Let's make no mistake here wrt UK, the ruling Nasties not only saw their hands burning in 2024, but also in local and council elections up til then, not to mention the defeats suffered lately in the very same.

So it would be nice to think that the two twits in question were toppled on account of a sudden rise of integrity among the foot soldiers among the Nasties, but as we have both agreed upon long since, I am anything but nice.
 
The vultures are gathering. Penny the first to officially throw her hat into the ring.

BoJo and Rishi Rich has not proclaimed officially they are running, but you know, they are running.
 
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