Limited Nuclear War

[Oozlefinch]

If you're not familiar enough with this subject that's fine.

You talk about a bunch of exercises, and an example of some advisors.

Which really means nothing. It is not that I am not familiar, it is simply that what all you listed meant little to nothing.

 

[Oozlefinch]

The quote was in response to a hypothetical attack by India using conventional weapons.

And stating it would be in response is not a threat, that is known as "retaliation".

 

[Jredbaron96]

You talk about a bunch of exercises, and an example of some advisors.

I talked about one exercise, and then I mentioned a bunch of examples where Iran has demonstrated its military competence over Iraq

Which really means nothing.

It means a lot, in fact, because it demonstrates what Iran does that Iraq doesn't. The history of Iran's military performance over the past few years shows that the Iranians actively adapt and develop new methods in response to their experience, something that was virtually unheard of in Iraq.

 

[Jredbaron96]

It is not that I am not familiar.

Evidently you are, as you contradict yourself.

 

[Oozlefinch]

Israel serves a purpose as a western military outpost in a crucial resource rich area of the globe. That's why they are supported.

Right. That is why we have always had such a large military presence in Israel. And all of those large military bases in Israel.

Even though they themselves have no significant oil reserves.

Whatever.

Afghanistan still has vast untapped mineral wealth and while the US was there they scoped out, using previous Soviet surveys, many sites that could one day be used for large scale mining and the profits that go with that.

Yes, Afghanistan does have vast amounts of mineral wealth. Primarily in the form of gemstones. But not enough of, the kind of, or of significant quality to be worthwhile to mine on anything but a small level.

The " Iraqi Oil Law" was written in 2004 in the USA by BearingPoint and then sold to a govt that was under foreign military occupation by the very same state.

Uh, WTF is that? Sorry, that is just a jumble of coprolite.

A law written by a civilian company and sold? That makes absolutely no sense.

And in case you were not aware, the US was not involved in any way in the purchase of Iraqi oil contracts even after the war. That was primarily France and Russia.

Holy hell, is like you are jumping from one nonsensical conspiracy theory to another.

If we are sceptical about what is agreed by states/regions/peoples that are living under a brutal foreign occupation, which I think we should be and for obvious reasons, then to say the attack on Iraq was not about oil is pretty ridiculous imo

And then this once again. The US was not involved in any of the oil contracts in Iraq. So if it was about oil, then why was that all gobbled up by countries that were not even involved in that?

Once again, complete conspiracy style nonsense, and a failure at that.

But Ukraine has a great potential as a bulwark against a official US enemy ?

Official US enemy? Who is that?

And please tell me where I can find this list of "official US enemies". I think that would be fascinating to read.

 

[oneworld2]

And stating it would be in response is not a threat, that is known as "retaliation".

Oh please !lol

You claimed only official state enemies of the US, N Korea and Iran, would be threatening everyone with their nukes and then you slither out by saying that a expressed threat by Pakistan of a nuclear response to a conventional attack by India is somehow not an example of a state threatening others with its nukes?

 

[oneworld2]

Right. That is why we have always had such a large military presence in Israel. And all of those large military bases in Israel.

Even though they themselves have no significant oil reserves.

Whatever.

I never said anything about Israeli resources being the reason why they are supported, so I don't know why you mentioned oil.

Israel serves as a military outpost for the West. It is the go to intelligence resource if they wish to know anything extra about the surrounding states.

It has vast stores of US weapons ( RWSA-1) which were used in the Gulf War and Israel has asked the US access to on occasion.

They were conduits for the US supply of weapons to Iran during the Iran/Iraq war.

Sometimes you don't need mass bases or boots on the ground to be able to use an area for military purposes.

Yes, Afghanistan does have vast amounts of mineral wealth. Primarily in the form of gemstones. But not enough of, the kind of, or of significant quality to be worthwhile to mine on anything but a small level.

They also have masses of lithium, copper, Iron, cobalt, chromite and even gold. In other words they are not just jewellers.

Uh, WTF is that? Sorry, that is just a jumble of coprolite.

A law written by a civilian company and sold? That makes absolutely no sense.

The US govt contracted BearingPoint to construct the Iraqi Oil Law which the US govt then sold it as a recommendation ( not literally sold it, I didn't think I would have to baby step you through this) to an Iraqi govt born from a US constructed election .

And in case you were not aware, the US was not involved in any way in the purchase of Iraqi oil contracts even after the war. That was primarily France and Russia.

Holy hell, is like you are jumping from one nonsensical conspiracy theory to another.

From ExxonMobil and Chevron to BP and Shell, the West’s largest oil companies have set up shop in Iraq. So have a slew of American oil service companies, including Halliburton, the Texas-based firm Dick Cheney ran before becoming George W. Bush’s running mate in 2000.
IBID
Before the invasion, there were just two things standing in the way of Western oil companies operating in Iraq: Saddam Hussein and the nation’s legal system. The invasion dealt handily with Hussein. To address the latter problem, some both inside and outside of the Bush administration argued that it should simply change Iraq’s oil laws through the U.S.-led coalition government of Iraq, which ran the country from April 2003 to June 2004. Instead the White House waited, choosing to pressure the newly elected Iraqi government to pass new oil legislation itself.

Why the war in Iraq was fought for Big Oil | CNN

Yes, the Iraq War was a war for oil, and it was a war with winners: Big Oil.

edition.cnn.com

You seem to be well behind the times when it comes to Iraqi oil and private sector foreign company access to it.

But instead of understanding that you accuse others of " conspiracy theories" lol

And then this once again. The US was not involved in any of the oil contracts in Iraq. So if it was about oil, then why was that all gobbled up by countries that were not even involved in that?

Once again, complete conspiracy style nonsense, and a failure at that.

See above and understand that your position is based on a complete ignorance he subject.

Official US enemy? Who is that?

And please tell me where I can find this list of "official US enemies". I think that would be fascinating to read.

Those who aren't prepared to jump when the US says jump ? Those they seek to ouster? Any peoples that seek to vote in Leftists? International trading competitors like China or Russia?

Your postings make it look like you have lived in a bubble for decades.

 

[Oozlefinch]

then you slither out by saying that a expressed threat by Pakistan of a nuclear response to a conventional attack by India is somehow not an example of a state threatening others with its nukes?

From the quote, "conventional attack" was not stated. Just "attack".

I am not slithering, you are the one injecting things that he did not actually say.

 

[Oozlefinch]

I never said anything about Israeli resources being the reason why they are supported, so I don't know why you mentioned oil.

Israel serves as a military outpost for the West.

Once again, what military bases does the US have in Israel? How many members of the military are stationed in Israel?

Israel serves a purpose as a western military outpost in a crucial resource rich area of the globe. That's why they are supported.

Because that is what you said, and it is a lie. You just don't like that I pointed that out, and are still trying to spin.

You are simply obsessed about oil like so many are, and have to try and link everything to it. Or maybe you have an obsession against anything to do with Israel, I really can't tell. But either way, you are trying to point phantom fingers at something that only exists in your mind.

Oh, and your "reference"? That is not a reference, that is an opinion piece. And it is a garbage one because it moronically listed Halliburton as an "oil company". Which is really retarded, because Halliburton is not an oil company, and has never been an oil company.

That is like screaming that Goodyear is a car company because they make tires. You really need to vette your "references".

 

[oneworld2]

From the quote, "conventional attack" was not stated. Just "attack".

I am not slithering, you are the one injecting things that he did not actually say.

Wrong again, here's the quotations again taken from the linked article

"If Pakistan gets attacked by India, there is no scope for conventional war. This will be a bloody nuclear war. It will be a nuclear war for sure."

"Pakistan has no option in conventional war, therefore India knows if something happens, it will be the end." Rashid said in the interview.

Pakistan minister threatens India with nuclear war which won't harm Muslims

The Pakistan minister also said that the weapons will only target certain regions and even Assam can now come under their range of attack.

mumbaimirror.indiatimes.com

Pretty unambiguous and what he actually is quoted as saying, no need for " injections" from me?

 

[oneworld2]

Once again, what military bases does the US have in Israel? How many members of the military are stationed in Israel?

Because that is what you said, and it is a lie. You just don't like that I pointed that out, and are still trying to spin.

Accusations of " lying" now?

You have accused me of spreading conspiracy theories regarding US oil interests in Iraq off the back of the illegal invasion. I have linked that I was correct and you misrepresented the article.

I used the comment of Israel serving as a US outpost in a general sense but still cited the vast US owned/stored weaponry on Israeli soil that has been used in US conflicts in the region. You ignored that.

I mentioned the US/Israeli intel cooperation. You never responded. Nor did you respond to Israeli use to supply US weapons to Iran in their war with Iraq.

Now here is evidence to support the permanent US base in Israel thing. No doubt you will keep up the pattern of fudging and denials, false accusations that are actually a result of your own lack of knowledge.

But , as you asked

Today, the IDF announced a key development in Israel-US relations: a permanent US Military facility on Israeli soil, located within an Israeli Air Force (IAF) base in southern Israel. “We’ve established, for the first time in the State of Israel, the IDF, a permanent US Military facility, flying the American flag,” says Brig. Gen. Zvika Haimovich, commander of the IAF’s Aerial Defense Division. The facility, located within the IAF’s School of Aerial Defense, will house dozens of American soldiers, permanently stationed in Israel as part of a task force.

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/international-cooperation/a-first-a-us-military-facility-in-israel/

You are simply obsessed about oil like so many are, and have to try and link everything to it. Or maybe you have an obsession against anything to do with Israel, I really can't tell. But either way, you are trying to point phantom fingers at something that only exists in your mind.

I am the one supplying links and you are the one whose false allegations are being systematically debunked with every post. That is the reality and it is yourself that is struggling with it.

Oh, and your "reference"? That is not a reference, that is an opinion piece. And it is a garbage one because it moronically listed Halliburton as an "oil company". Which is really retarded, because Halliburton is not an oil company, and has never been an oil company.

That is like screaming that Goodyear is a car company because they make tires. You really need to vette your "references".

The highlighted? That's a lie and it shows how desperate you are to try to gaslight people into believing you have made ANY inroads into supporting your ongoing and ridiculous allegations.

The article, which destroys the commentary you have been making, does not say Halliburton is an " oil company"

It states, correctly that it is an " oil servicing company" which it is.

I can't remember anybody in the 8 years I have been here get so many things wrong in consecutive postings.

Here's the reference from the article, that you ridiculously tried to misrepresent in order to try to dig your way out of the hole you are in.

From ExxonMobil and Chevron to BP and Shell, the West’s largest oil companies have set up shop in Iraq. So have a slew of American oil service companies, including Halliburton,

Why the war in Iraq was fought for Big Oil | CNN

Yes, the Iraq War was a war for oil, and it was a war with winners: Big Oil.

edition.cnn.com

and to confirm the accuracy of the comment this

Halliburton Company is an American multinational corporation responsible for most of the world's hydraulic fracturing operations.[6] In 2009, it was the world's second largest oil field service company. It has operations in more than 70 countries.

Halliburton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why have you lied about everything I have put up ?

 

[Fledermaus]

Accusations of " lying" now?

You have accused me of spreading conspiracy theories regarding US oil interests in Iraq off the back of the illegal invasion. I have linked that I was correct and you misrepresented the article.

I used the comment of Israel serving as a US outpost in a general sense but still cited the vast US owned/stored weaponry on Israeli soil that has been used in US conflicts in the region. You ignored that.

I mentioned the US/Israeli intel cooperation. You never responded. Nor did you respond to Israeli use to supply US weapons to Iran in their war with Iraq.

Now here is evidence to support the permanent US base in Israel thing. No doubt you will keep up the pattern of fudging and denials, false accusations that are actually a result of your own lack of knowledge.

But , as you asked

https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/international-cooperation/a-first-a-us-military-facility-in-israel/

I am the one supplying links and you are the one whose false allegations are being systematically debunked with every post. That is the reality and it is yourself that is struggling with it.





The highlighted? That's a lie and it shows how desperate you are to try to gaslight people into believing you have made ANY inroads into supporting your ongoing and ridiculous allegations.

The article, which destroys the commentary you have been making, does not say Halliburton is an " oil company"

It states, correctly that it is an " oil servicing company" which it is.

I can't remember anybody in the 8 years I have been here get so many things wrong in consecutive postings.

Here's the reference from the article, that you ridiculously tried to misrepresent in order to try to dig your way out of the hole you are in.

Why the war in Iraq was fought for Big Oil | CNN

Yes, the Iraq War was a war for oil, and it was a war with winners: Big Oil.

edition.cnn.com

and to confirm the accuracy of the comment this

Halliburton - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Why have you lied about everything I have put up ?

How many OIL CONTRACTS did the US glean from Iraq?

None.

The fact Iraq VOLUNTARILY chose US companies to help reconstruct the Iraqi oil infrastructure only speaks to the abilities of Americans to make oil production more efficient.

Now. Compare profits from oil to the contracts to reconstruct Iraq's infrastructure.

 

[Oozlefinch]

How many OIL CONTRACTS did the US glean from Iraq?

None.

The fact Iraq VOLUNTARILY chose US companies to help reconstruct the Iraqi oil infrastructure only speaks to the abilities of Americans to make oil production more efficient.

Now. Compare profits from oil to the contracts to reconstruct Iraq's infrastructure.

Of course, that does not matter at all because it is reality and not the fantasy they all have.

No US companies won oil contracts. None. Which is why I am amazed that even well over a decade later people still keep trying to believe and try to spread the lie it was all about "the US stealing Iraqi oil". Hell, his own "reference" even tried to claim Halliburton is one of the "big oil companies", even though they do not and have never owned a drop of oil (other than what they buy to operate their machinery). Then he even goes so far as to repost an opinion piece that I already pointed out a huge glaring flaw in, and he still claims he is right.

There is a reason why I simply dismiss conspiracy theorists. Their claims do not have to be factual, or even correct or logical. They all believe in "something" that causes things to happen. The Government, the CIA, or "Big Oil" like this case.

I simply realized long ago that that is delusional and irrational thinking, and give up because it is impossible to convince somebody that wants to believe in lies that they are lies. No more than you can convince a crazy person that they are crazy.

 

[oneworld2]

No US companies won oil contracts. None.

Lie number. what is it now 3 or 4? I'm losing count.

Exxon Mobil, a major US oil company, has operations in southern Iraq. Britain’s BP and Anglo-Dutch company Royal Dutch Shell (RDSA) also work in the region.

IBID

BP (BP) would not comment on staff movements or whether it was ramping up security measures at its facilities. Shell, which owns a stake in the Basrah Gas Company, declined to comment.

Exxon (XOM) is the lead contractor in a project to redevelop the West Qurna I oil field in southern Iraq. Indonesian, Chinese and Iraqi companies are also involved in the project, according to Exxon (XOM)’s website. Exxon (XOM) said in its statement that production at West Qurna I was continuing normally. A Shell affiliate exited the project in 2018.

Exxon also has a presence in Baghdad and the Kurdistan region of Iraq, according to its website.

BP has operations in the giant Rumaila oil field in southern Iraq, in partnership with Chinese and Iraqi companies. BP estimates that the field has around 17 billion barrels of recoverable oil.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/03/business/us-oil-company-workers-leaving-iraq/index.html

Recall before the illegal invasion of Iraq , Iraqi oil was nationalized and protected as such by Iraqi law.

It is also sold in dollars today which wasn't the case prior to the illegal invasion.

Baghdad this week insisted on and received UN approval to sell oil through the oil-for-food program for euros only after 6 November. Iraq had threatened to suspend all oil exports -- about 5 percent of the world's total -- if the body turned down the request.

Iraq: Baghdad Moves To Euro

Baghdad's switch from the dollar to the euro for oil trading is intended to rebuke Washington's hard-line on sanctions and to encourage Europeans to challenge it. But the political message will cost Iraq millions in lost revenue. RFE/RL correspondent Charles Recknagel looks at what Baghdad will...

www.rferl.org

 

[oneworld2]

Hell, his own "reference" even tried to claim Halliburton is one of the "big oil companies", even though they do not and have never owned a drop of oil (other than what they buy to operate their machinery). Then he even goes so far as to repost an opinion piece that I already pointed out a huge glaring flaw in, and he still claims he is right.

Lie.

I quoted from the article verbatim and supplied the link for the second time.

So what do you do? repeat the same lie here.

So, time for you to quote the article claiming Halliburton is an " oil company" ? Good luck with that!!

There is a reason why I simply dismiss conspiracy theorists. Their claims do not have to be factual, or even correct or logical. They all believe in "something" that causes things to happen. The Government, the CIA, or "Big Oil" like this case.

The only thing you " dismiss" is supporting evidence for peoples opinions. Having to lie and/or misrepresent it to do that.

I simply realized long ago that that is delusional and irrational thinking, and give up because it is impossible to convince somebody that wants to believe in lies that they are lies. No more than you can convince a crazy person that they are crazy.

The only one " lying" here is yourself. You have been caught out doing it throughout the discussion. That's why you have NEVER once quoted from the articles I have supplied.

You commentary has been classic projection with yourself being the only party guilty of what you accuse me of. Sad but true. Or at least true until someone else decided to join in and lie for the cause.

Obviously you are caught in the headlights of your own ignorance and lies here so will continue to double down instead of being brave/honest enough to admit to them.

 

[Fledermaus]

Lie number. what is it now 3 or 4? I'm losing count.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/01/03/business/us-oil-company-workers-leaving-iraq/index.html

Recall before the illegal invasion of Iraq , Iraqi oil was nationalized and protected as such by Iraqi law.

It is also sold in dollars today which wasn't the case prior to the illegal invasion.

Iraq: Baghdad Moves To Euro

Baghdad's switch from the dollar to the euro for oil trading is intended to rebuke Washington's hard-line on sanctions and to encourage Europeans to challenge it. But the political message will cost Iraq millions in lost revenue. RFE/RL correspondent Charles Recknagel looks at what Baghdad will...

www.rferl.org

The Nation of Iraq offered zero oil contracts to US companies in the wake of the US occupation.
MAINTENANCE contracts are MAINTENANCE.

OIL =/= MAINTENANCE

Maintenance < Oil

 

[Fledermaus]

Lie.

I quoted from the article verbatim and supplied the link for the second time.

So what do you do? repeat the same lie here.

So, time for you to quote the article claiming Halliburton is an " oil company" ? Good luck with that!!






The only thing you " dismiss" is supporting evidence for peoples opinions. Having to lie and/or misrepresent it to do that.



The only one " lying" here is yourself. You have been caught out doing it throughout the discussion. That's why you have NEVER once quoted from the articles I have supplied.

You commentary has been classic projection with yourself being the only party guilty of what you accuse me of. Sad but true. Or at least true until someone else decided to join in and lie for the cause.

Obviously you are caught in the headlights of your own ignorance and lies here so will continue to double down instead of being brave/honest enough to admit to them.

You keep throwing around the word "lie" in cases where you are blatantly ignorant.

 

[reinaert]

Iran's leadership is ugly, but it is not unstable.

 

[Fledermaus]

@oneworld2

Your link about Americans leaving Iraq:

"Exxon (XOM) is the lead contractor in a project to redevelop the West Qurna I oil field in southern Iraq."

Exxon doesn't get the oil. IT IS IRAQI OIL SOLD TO OTHERS.

 

[oneworld2]

You keep throwing around the word "lie" in cases where you are blatantly ignorant.

Oozlefinch has finally been forced to exit the debate now that his lies and misrepresentations have been laid bare. That he is thanking your posts supporting his lies it hysterical and utterly revealing as to what I have been dealing with.

He lied that the article I cited said that Halliburton was an oil company when they said it was an oil services company. When called on to quote the article he declined.

He did the same with the story about Pakistani threats of nuclear weapons.

My claims have been verified with supporting evidence but you are compelled to live in denial because that's what you do. The old argumentum ad infinitum nonsense. who knew? lol

 

[oneworld2]

The Nation of Iraq offered zero oil contracts to US companies in the wake of the US occupation.
MAINTENANCE contracts are MAINTENANCE.

OIL =/= MAINTENANCE

Maintenance < Oil

Not only did they get maintenance contracts they got oil production contracts too. It's what all of the articles I have linked to confirm. Your side has offered exactly NOTHING to refute it and has just chosen to misrepresent what I have put up. All well documented here.

 

[oneworld2]

@oneworld2

Your link about Americans leaving Iraq:

"Exxon (XOM) is the lead contractor in a project to redevelop the West Qurna I oil field in southern Iraq."

Exxon doesn't get the oil. IT IS IRAQI OIL SOLD TO OTHERS.

Exxon Mobil Corporation (NYSE:XOM) confirmed this morning that it has signed an agreement with the Iraq Ministry of Oil to redevelop and expand the West Qurna-1 field in southern Iraq.


The consortium members are ExxonMobil as the lead contractor with 60%, Royal Dutch Shell (LSE: RDSB) with 15% and the remaining 25% held by Iraq’s state oil company.


"We are pleased to sign the agreement for the redevelopment and expansion of the West Qurna-1 field and look forward to working with the government of Iraq and the South Oil Company on implementation of this important project," said Franklin.


ExxonMobil also stated that it was in additional discussions with the government on ‘other opportunities’ in Iraq.

Exxon Mobil and Shell sign contract to redevelop West Qurna-1 Field in southern Iraq

Exxon Mobil Corporation (NYSE:XOM) confirmed this morning that it has signed an agreement with the Iraq Ministry of Oil to redevelop and expand the West...

www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk

I expect that even you know what a consortium is and that a 60% stake that outstrips that of the national oil company 25% means they are making a shit ton of money from Iraqi oil reserves.

Your swings and misses have only comedic value here.

 

[Fledermaus]

Exxon Mobil and Shell sign contract to redevelop West Qurna-1 Field in southern Iraq

Exxon Mobil Corporation (NYSE:XOM) confirmed this morning that it has signed an agreement with the Iraq Ministry of Oil to redevelop and expand the West...

www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk

I expect that even you know what a consortium is and that a 60% stake that outstrips that of the national oil company 25% means they are making a shit ton of money from Iraqi oil reserves.

Your swings and misses have only comedic value here.

REDEVELOP

In other words maintenance.

Maintenance =/= Oil

 

[Fledermaus]

Not only did they get maintenance contracts they got oil production contracts too. It's what all of the articles I have linked to confirm. Your side has offered exactly NOTHING to refute it and has just chosen to misrepresent what I have put up. All well documented here.

After the US invasion no American company got the OIL contracts.

The article confirmed MAINTENANCE contracts.

As I noted.

 

[Fledermaus]

Oozlefinch has finally been forced to exit the debate now that his lies and misrepresentations have been laid bare. That he is thanking your posts supporting his lies it hysterical and utterly revealing as to what I have been dealing with.

He lied that the article I cited said that Halliburton was an oil company when they said it was an oil services company. When called on to quote the article he declined.

He did the same with the story about Pakistani threats of nuclear weapons.

My claims have been verified with supporting evidence but you are compelled to live in denial because that's what you do. The old argumentum ad infinitum nonsense. who knew? lol

Quote the "lies".