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Liitmus Test for 9/11 Truthers

Ned Racine

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Why not a few up front questions to the obsessed : 1) Were 4 Planes actually hijacked that day?? 2) Were the Hijackers part of Al Queda ?? 3) Did 3 of the 4 planes get to their intended targets ?? 4) Did any high person in the US Government know in advance that Thousands would die that day?? 5) Did anyone delibertly permit NY Firemen to enter the Towers knowing they would not get out in time?? 6) Was anyone of this staged to either get the US (and the West) into a War, to manipulate the Markets or to diminish our Liberties at home.
 

I_Gaze_At_The_Blue

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Why not a few up front questions to the obsessed :

Only six ... your waaay too easy on them Ned !!!

Here are some more to add to your thread, which I predict will be avoided like the plague by twoofers ...

Suppose it was a "conspiracy" ...

What was the intent ... ???

If it was to bring down the Towers why demolish from the top down ???

That's not how ANY other controlled demolitions are done !!!

Why not strike low, maximizing the number of casualties and more fully galvanizing the country for war ???

If the intent was to collapse only "part" of the Towers, keeping casualties limited but providing a "casus belli" ... then the total collapse was "unanticipated".

Or maybe the intent was simply to crash planes into the Towers and produce casualties but not cause building collapse at all.

In either case, if the building collapses were unexpected ... they happened through structural weakening and gravitational collapse and all the alleged "evidence" for sequential explosive charges and so on becomes worthless !!!

Why use planes at all ... ???

Why not simply stage a bigger and better remake of the 1993 attack ???

Why not claim the terrorists detonated a large truck load of explosives at the central core of the building, or smuggled explosives into the core ???

Instead of passenger planes, why not have the terrorists steal a FedEx or UPS cargo plane and fill it with explosives ???

Why have a time gap between the plane crashes and building collapse, and why did the South Tower, which was hit later, fall first ???

(already answered but just just for twoofs out there)

Why would the US need an excuse to go to war ... as the FIRST Gulf War and history showed America did NOT need an excuse this good ???

IF da gubmint and others can already manipulate the stock markets, then why the need for this ???

Why do twoofs think their limited, very limited, ideas of science and physics is enough to refute the work of hundreds of known and proven real acknowledged experts ???

Why does Da Twoof NEED to engage in such outright dishonourable tactics as to claim the dead as "supporters" on the Patriots Question web site ... as well as using public statements of people whom have NOT joined nor expressed agreement with their claims ...

"This page of the website is a collection of their statements. The website does not represent any organization and it should be made clear that none of these individuals are affiliated with this website."

"This website contains copyrighted material, the use of which has not always been specifically authorized by the copyright owner"

Patriots Question 9/11 - Responsible Criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report

But mostly WHY does Da Twoof need to engage in such outright lying ???
 

Ned Racine

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Well, If dealing only with Americans and assuming they are 18 or better - How Many Supported & Voted for Ron Paul ????
 

usda select

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Well, If dealing only with Americans and assuming they are 18 or better - How Many Supported & Voted for Ron Paul ????

I think he had 2 delegates to the RNC in 2008. He did get almost 10 percent in the Iowa caucus but it should be noted that some GOP heavyweights skipped the caucus all together. He got as much support as he deserves, minimal.
 

Ned Racine

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I think he had 2 delegates to the RNC in 2008. He did get almost 10 percent in the Iowa caucus but it should be noted that some GOP heavyweights skipped the caucus all together. He got as much support as he deserves, minimal.



I meant what percent of those Truthers who are American were fully for Paul ????? I think it was a good 25% personally.
 

usda select

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I meant what percent of those Truthers who are American were fully for Paul ????? I think it was a good 25% personally.

The conventional wisdom is that you can vote for different people on election day:

Candidate A
Candidate B
None of the Above
Vote with your TV Remote and stay home.

My guess is that for 100% of truthers there is no A&B.
 

Ned Racine

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The conventional wisdom is that you can vote for different people on election day:

Candidate A
Candidate B
None of the Above
Vote with your TV Remote and stay home.

My guess is that for 100% of truthers there is no A&B.



In the GOP Primaries they were for Paul. Some were Ex or current Larouchies. Paul knew they were there and engaging in disproportinate tactics. Let me add that I have substantial doubts about his son Rand Paul (also a Doctor) running in Kentucky this year. He may be losing his once Big lead as more & more see thru him.
 

usda select

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In the GOP Primaries they were for Paul. Some were Ex or current Larouchies. Paul knew they were there and engaging in disproportinate tactics. Let me add that I have substantial doubts about his son Rand Paul (also a Doctor) running in Kentucky this year. He may be losing his once Big lead as more & more see thru him.

Maybe; I see your point.
 

OscarB63

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7. do you really want to belong to a group that includes Jesse "the body" Ventura?
 

Demon of Light

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1) Were 4 Planes actually hijacked that day??

Almost certainly.

2) Were the Hijackers part of Al Queda ??

I think that it is most likely they were working for or with al-Qaeda. However, this does not mean they were only working for or with al-Qaeda.

3) Did 3 of the 4 planes get to their intended targets ??

I would presume that to be the case.

4) Did any high person in the US Government know in advance that Thousands would die that day??

I don't even feel comfortable saying there was anyone in the government that even knew the attack was going to happen. Do not assume the government has all the power.

5) Did anyone delibertly permit NY Firemen to enter the Towers knowing they would not get out in time??

Does anyone actually make that claim?

6) Was anyone of this staged to either get the US (and the West) into a War, to manipulate the Markets or to diminish our Liberties at home.

It is a lot more complicated than something like that. For another example of a major Deep State incident consider the JFK assassination. He was not going to upset just one policy, but rather he was likely going to completely reorient U.S. foreign policy in a direction opposite of what was desired by members of the establishment.

Why use planes at all ... ???

That one seems simple enough. It is a hell of a lot more likely to succeed than a bomb and generally easier to implement. Also, it is easier to cover up.

Why would the US need an excuse to go to war ... as the FIRST Gulf War and history showed America did NOT need an excuse this good ???

I sort of explained this, but it was not simply about one war or one policy. You are talking about creating a basis for a massive policy shift with long-reaching implications. That is not as simple as justifying one war. The specter of 9-11 can be raised time and again to instill fear and subservience to any number of policies.

On a side note, I find the "truther" term to be a rather odd insult. I would generally hope everyone is interested in the truth.
 

Ned Racine

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Oh, it's all about the Spectre of 9/11 - How unique an outlook. It's like the Doubters had this Mega Event forced upon them.

Grim Reality IS that SOME look for any excuse to go off into Never Never Land and accuse mysterious forces of things that sometimes can be easily explained by Government underestimating the determination of the Wicked , and incompetence and Dumb Luck.

BTW - LH Oswald killed JFK. He had a Good day . He was underestimated by most and he slipped away for awhile.
 

Demon of Light

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Oh, it's all about the Spectre of 9/11 - How unique an outlook.

I don't know if it's unique, but an event like that can get the people to give up a great deal far more easily and it makes for a good rallying cry.

Grim Reality IS that SOME look for any excuse to go off into Never Never Land and accuse mysterious forces of things that sometimes can be easily explained by Government underestimating the determination of the Wicked , and incompetence and Dumb Luck.

The grim reality is that government is far less idiotic than people think. When one considers that government is far from the only party involved the "idiocy" argument flies out the window.

BTW - LH Oswald killed JFK. He had a Good day . He was underestimated by most and he slipped away for awhile.

Who shot the bullet that killed JFK is quite irrelevant to the larger issue.
 

Ned Racine

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Okay - Start another deluge - WHAT is the Larger Issue(??)
 

Demon of Light

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Okay - Start another deluge - WHAT is the Larger Issue(??)

The larger issue is who orchestrated the events that put Oswald in a position to shoot JFK and ultimately cover up the CIA/Cuban exile/mafia connections that exist. By larger issue I mean the people who were behind the event, not the person who actually did the deed.
 

Ned Racine

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The larger issue is who orchestrated the events that put Oswald in a position to shoot JFK and ultimately cover up the CIA/Cuban exile/mafia connections that exist. By larger issue I mean the people who were behind the event, not the person who actually did the deed.


Why not cut to the Chase . Roughly how old are you and do YOU think the 1992 Oliver Stne Movie "JFK" is credible ??
 

Demon of Light

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Why not cut to the Chase . Roughly how old are you and do YOU think the 1992 Oliver Stne Movie "JFK" is credible ??

I have never even see the movie and I am not telling you my age.
 

usda select

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Why not cut to the Chase . Roughly how old are you and do YOU think the 1992 Oliver Stne Movie "JFK" is credible ??

Hey, give him credit...he at least admits that Oswald shot JFK. I'm sure there is some sort of enormous conspiracy involving Jewish bankers but heck; most conspiracy believers won't cop to that self-evident truth.
 

MaggieD

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Why not a few up front questions to the obsessed : 1) Were 4 Planes actually hijacked that day?? 2) Were the Hijackers part of Al Queda ?? 3) Did 3 of the 4 planes get to their intended targets ?? 4) Did any high person in the US Government know in advance that Thousands would die that day?? 5) Did anyone delibertly permit NY Firemen to enter the Towers knowing they would not get out in time?? 6) Was anyone of this staged to either get the US (and the West) into a War, to manipulate the Markets or to diminish our Liberties at home.

1) Yes. 2) Ties to... 3) We don't know that for sure. 4) Not that we know of. 5) Probably not. 6) Yes to manipulation and diminishing our liberties.

Not sure what your point is, Ned. I'm not a 911 Truther because I'm not OC enough to worry about it. It's out of my hands. Prolly never really know who knew what when. But I understand their questions. And I'm kinda' glad they ask them. What's the problem with that?
 

Ned Racine

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The problem is as time passes they get believed by those too young at the time of the Big Events to really think objectively in some cases. Oliver Stone's success with "JFK" should easily show how gullible 2 generations later can be.
 

Demon of Light

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Hey, give him credit...he at least admits that Oswald shot JFK. I'm sure there is some sort of enormous conspiracy involving Jewish bankers but heck; most conspiracy believers won't cop to that self-evident truth.

I don't see any indication that bankers were involved at all, let alone Jewish ones. The strongest evidence pertains to Cuban exile groups, the CIA, and the mafia.

The problem is as time passes they get believed by those too young at the time of the Big Events to really think objectively in some cases. Oliver Stone's success with "JFK" should easily show how gullible 2 generations later can be.

I don't think that film was even remotely influential in getting people to believe in a conspiracy.
 

Soupnazi630

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Oh, it's all about the Spectre of 9/11 - How unique an outlook. It's like the Doubters had this Mega Event forced upon them.

Grim Reality IS that SOME look for any excuse to go off into Never Never Land and accuse mysterious forces of things that sometimes can be easily explained by Government underestimating the determination of the Wicked , and incompetence and Dumb Luck.

BTW - LH Oswald killed JFK. He had a Good day . He was underestimated by most and he slipped away for awhile.

All true.

Except that Oswald only started out with a good day. His day was ruined when he got arrested.
 

Soupnazi630

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I don't know if it's unique, but an event like that can get the people to give up a great deal far more easily and it makes for a good rallying cry.



The grim reality is that government is far less idiotic than people think. When one considers that government is far from the only party involved the "idiocy" argument flies out the window.



Who shot the bullet that killed JFK is quite irrelevant to the larger issue.

That depends on what the larger issue is.

If the larger issue is what happened on 911 you are correct.

If the larger issue is the strange mindset of truthers then no it is not irrelevant since it is the same mindset.
 

Soupnazi630

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The larger issue is who orchestrated the events that put Oswald in a position to shoot JFK and ultimately cover up the CIA/Cuban exile/mafia connections that exist. By larger issue I mean the people who were behind the event, not the person who actually did the deed.

Oswald was hired to work at the TSBD BEFORE the Secret Service even finalized the plan for JFK's visit and therefore the route of the motorcade.

HE applied there on the advice of a lady named Kirkland who was putting up Marina Oswald whle Lee was away trying to emigrate to Cuba. WShen he returned he needed a job and Kirkland advised him to try the TSBD which was hiring low skilled low pay workers. Oswald was not well educated and not highly skileld so this job was right up his ally.

What connections do you refer to? He had no connection to the CIA or the mafia. He did have a few run ins with some anti castro cubans but this was long before the shooting and it is clear he was looking for attention to air his political views. He staged run ins and encounters with these cubans to stir up trouble and get on the air which he did.

BTW Ruby had no connections with these people either. The rumor that he had ties to the mafia were started apparently by Ruby himself who loved to make himself look like a bigshot but in reality was pretty small time.
 

Soupnazi630

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I don't see any indication that bankers were involved at all, let alone Jewish ones. The strongest evidence pertains to Cuban exile groups, the CIA, and the mafia.



I don't think that film was even remotely influential in getting people to believe in a conspiracy.

It was VERY influential.

I have met endless people who continually quote the movie while claiming they have read evidence of facts which the Warren commssion ignored.

For example they claim " the government told us a Marine washout who got maggies drawers got off three world class accuracy shots with an old Italian bolt action rifle and they expect us to believe it "

This is of course almost straight from the script of JFK and simply not accurate.

But people believe it because they saw it in the movie.

They repeat many such claims from the movie such as " JFK was obviously killed using the method of a triangulated cross fire which is a common method used by hit men to assassinate people". Again this is simply made up for the movie yet people believe it. It is not just the idea that assassins id this to JFK which is made up but the notion that such methods are used or have ever been used which is made up. Funny when they are asked who else has been killed in such a manner people draw a blank.

Even the idea of a Hitman or professional assassin is more hollywood than reality.
 

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Could the CIA have uncovered the plot beforehand using their almost unlimited resources and kept it quiet in order to launch attacks on the mid east?
 
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