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Life in the womb[W;94]

Henrin

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Re: Life in the womb

Denying the humanity of the youngest of our species is truly a sick thing.
 

MrT

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Re: Life in the womb

Let me know when a polar bear or an elephant files a lawsuit in US court.
 

Bucky

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Re: Life in the womb

Those on the radical left do not acknowledge the existence of a unique human organism in the mother's womb. They are the true primeval savages among us.... simply greedy pigs.
 

D_NATURED

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Re: Life in the womb

Those on the radical left do not acknowledge the existence of a unique human organism in the mother's womb. They are the true primeval savages among us.... simply greedy pigs.

It doesn't matter how ****ing unique you think it is, it's a risk to her life. If she wants to take that risk, it's up to her. If not, stay the hell out of her business. She has a right to self preservation that trumps the fetal right to exist.

The primeval savages are those tribal asshats who think their ancestors' ghost stories can justify contemporary tyranny. Women OWN their bodies and anything within. It doesn't matter if some man thinks their god gives them authority to control them. Conservative religious fanatics show the depth of their madness when they value the contents of a woman's womb over the woman herself. That they come on to web sites and shamelessly brag about their ignorance is a mystery but, really, nothing surprises me any more. Being entitled to a subjective ignorance is as much a part of faith as anything.

You want to talk about radical, how radical is a theocrat who treats women like state property?
 

JayDubya

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Re: Life in the womb

Women OWN their bodies and anything within.

When the radical pro-aborts on this site complain and wonder why I compare you to slavery supporters, don't wonder. This is why.

You cannot ever rightfully own another human being. Your support for legally owning other human beings, D_N, is utterly contemptible.
 

Bucky

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Re: Life in the womb

It doesn't matter how ****ing unique you think it is, it's a risk to her life. If she wants to take that risk, it's up to her. If not, stay the hell out of her business. She has a right to self preservation that trumps the fetal right to exist.

The primeval savages are those tribal asshats who think their ancestors' ghost stories can justify contemporary tyranny. Women OWN their bodies and anything within. It doesn't matter if some man thinks their god gives them authority to control them. Conservative religious fanatics show the depth of their madness when they value the contents of a woman's womb over the woman herself. That they come on to web sites and shamelessly brag about their ignorance is a mystery but, really, nothing surprises me any more. Being entitled to a subjective ignorance is as much a part of faith as anything.

You want to talk about radical, how radical is a theocrat who treats women like state property?

D_Natured or Disturbed_Nature?

A child should not be provided a death sentence for the crimes of the father. That my friend is unconstitutional/undemocratic.

FYI groups like Planned Parenthood have "secret abortions" with minors that were raped. They provide abortions for rape victims, no questions asked. It actually is a sanctuary for the rapists. That's right. A rapist can bring his rape victim into PP and the abortionist doctors will gladly help abort the baby instead of calling the police.
 

Bucky

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Re: Life in the womb

Also, I can provide sources for my post I just made but what is the point?

Certain posters on this sub-forum have established rules on what is and what is not an acceptable source. Unless you provide a 1,000 page scientific thesis backing your claim, the source is invalid for anyone that is pro-life.

Now pro-choice posters can just provide a link to dailykos or politico and it is somehow already assumed as a fact???
 

Scrabaholic

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Re: Life in the womb

FYI groups like Planned Parenthood have "secret abortions" with minors that were raped. They provide abortions for rape victims, no questions asked. It actually is a sanctuary for the rapists. That's right. A rapist can bring his rape victim into PP and the abortionist doctors will gladly help abort the baby instead of calling the police.

Prove it. Please post from a credible source. I trust the police have been called and PP charged if this is truly the case so there should be a police report.
 

Aunt Spiker

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Bucky

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Re: Life in the womb

Prove it. Please post from a credible source. I trust the police have been called and PP charged if this is truly the case so there should be a police report.

In 2001, 32-year-old Alfaro began sexually assaulting 11-year-old “Caitlin.” She became pregnant at 14 and he took her for an abortion. It is clear no report was filed by the clinic since Alfaro continued to sexually assault Caitlin for approximately a year after the abortion. In 2005, she revealed the situation to her family and they notified the authorities. Alfaro was convicted for predatory criminal sexual assault and given 20 years in prison. [Chicago Tribune, 12-23-2005]

Bailey, 53, began sexually molesting his stepdaughter “Hillary” in 1992 when she was seven years old. He started having intercourse with her when she was 12 and, within two years, he was raping her four or five times a week. Court documents show that, at 16, Hillary became pregnant by Bailey and was taken for an abortion. Given that Bailey continued to assault Hillary for another year, it is evident the abortion clinic did not file a report. After authorities were made aware of the situation, Bailey was arrested, convicted and given 20 years in prison. [Gannette’s Delmarva Now, 6-14-2011 • Ocean City Today, 6-10-2011, 8-12-2011 • Daily Times, 1-7 & 12, 2011]

Actual Cases - Child Predator

I can post more but my heat aches when I post these stories which pro abortion clinics salivate over.
 

Lursa

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Re: Life in the womb

Those on the radical left do not acknowledge the existence of a unique human organism in the mother's womb. They are the true primeval savages among us.... simply greedy pigs.

Of course we do. We just dont value it above the life...the entirety of the life...of women.

What on Earth is greedy about that? At least we're honest. How many pro-life people admit they place the unborn ahead of women, valuing them more? Anything other claim is a lie or total denial, because in reality, they cannot be treated equally.

Why do you believe that valuing the unborn more than women gives you some moral High Ground? It does not.
 

Lursa

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Re: Life in the womb

FYI groups like Planned Parenthood have "secret abortions" with minors that were raped. They provide abortions for rape victims, no questions asked. It actually is a sanctuary for the rapists. That's right. A rapist can bring his rape victim into PP and the abortionist doctors will gladly help abort the baby instead of calling the police.

I call BS on anything outside of current law that says minors dont need parental permission.

If these are 'secret,' please provide sources or admit it's just more BS. And as for the rapist garbage....dont even bother, we both know there are no sources that show that is fact. It's blatant deceitful pro-life propaganda.

The only question is...were you truly decieved and buy into it or are you just repeating the lie to further your own agenda?
 

Lursa

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Re: Life in the womb

Also, I can provide sources for my post I just made but what is the point?
Of course it's not hard to find reasonable, moderate sources. Dont use the fact that yours are extremist pro-life sources as an excuse to get out of it.

Let's see the sources. Otherwise, like I wrote, you are posting pure BS.
 

Lursa

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Re: Life in the womb

Actual Cases - Child Predator

I can post more but my heat aches when I post these stories which pro abortion clinics salivate over.

???? How was PP to know the circumstances? Unfortunately (IMO) plenty of 14 & 16 yr olds are sexually active. And some go to get abortions. It's "against the law" for PP to make any sort of notification unless there is evidence of abuse.

There was no wrongdoing...not even any evidence of knowlege....on the part of PP.

Go peddle your conspiracies in the Conspiracy forum.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Re: Life in the womb

Those on the radical left do not acknowledge the existence of a unique human organism in the mother's womb. They are the true primeval savages among us.... simply greedy pigs.
Sorry, but I totally disagree with your characterization of the radical left on this topic. Why drag a true primeval savage down to their level? A savage does not really know what they are doing. This is purposeful conscious thought along with organizational skill applied to killing millions.

Far worse than a simple savage.

Savage = 1. (of an animal or force of nature) fierce, violent, and uncontrolled. 2. (chiefly in historical or literary contexts) a member of a people regarded as primitive and uncivilized.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Re: Life in the womb

It doesn't matter how ****ing unique you think it is, it's a risk to her life. If she wants to take that risk, it's up to her. If not, stay the hell out of her business. She has a right to self preservation that trumps the fetal right to exist.

The primeval savages are those tribal asshats who think their ancestors' ghost stories can justify contemporary tyranny. Women OWN their bodies and anything within. It doesn't matter if some man thinks their god gives them authority to control them. Conservative religious fanatics show the depth of their madness when they value the contents of a woman's womb over the woman herself. That they come on to web sites and shamelessly brag about their ignorance is a mystery but, really, nothing surprises me any more. Being entitled to a subjective ignorance is as much a part of faith as anything.

You want to talk about radical, how radical is a theocrat who treats women like state property?
Pure tripe.

We have nothing even approaching a theocratic state in the US.

Although the expressions in your post show symptoms of voluntary cretinism, we should appreciate all human forms even with expressions so afixed to a subhuman point on the scale. Religion doesn't have to have anything to do with it. This claim of theocracy grows stale from inapplicability. I am not religious whatsoever, so how do you account for that?

The basics of humanity should apply. Now some may be born lacking this human quality, either congenitally or voluntarily renouncing that common bond with other humans, informed by most of us from our conscience, that inner voice that tells one what is right and wrong. Lacking that, one indeed should probably seek the guidance of a religion or good philosophy so as not to go off the rails and do something one shouldn't. But that is generally not a prerequisite if one, from womb on is able to develop this inner voice of good guidance.

Women want and are given choices, more than ever in the history of the planet... all the way up until they conceive another totally distinct human. Then the only truly lawful way to put that other human to death is after they have been properly adjudicated to have committed a capital crime.

Period.
 

Casper

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Re: Life in the womb

How wonderful. I do notice the words are Life and Human Organism and Not Person, I guess some have finally come to realize being alive or even a potential person does not make one a Person, it takes more development for that label to be applied. Progress is slow for some.
 

Scrabaholic

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Re: Life in the womb

Actual Cases - Child Predator

I can post more but my heat aches when I post these stories which pro abortion clinics salivate over.

I don't see anything in there proving that PP knew that they were raped. They could have told the clinic the 'father' of each pregnancy was the girl's b/f of the same age.
 

D_NATURED

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Re: Life in the womb

When the radical pro-aborts on this site complain and wonder why I compare you to slavery supporters, don't wonder. This is why.

You cannot ever rightfully own another human being. Your support for legally owning other human beings, D_N, is utterly contemptible.

Don't worry, you only own the ones that grow naturally within your body, not the ones who rent the space for recreational purposes.
 

D_NATURED

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Re: Life in the womb

D_Natured or Disturbed_Nature?

Your lack of a rational argument noted, with regard to the existential threat of pregnancy for women, if the best you can do is post a juvenile attack on my name, that shows the intellectual depth of your arguments.

A child should not be provided a death sentence for the crimes of the father. That my friend is unconstitutional/undemocratic.

Calling a fetus a child is your first lie. The definition for a child is not one who lives in a fluid-filled sack within the physical confines of another's body, drawing nutrition from and excreting waste into the bloodstream of, a woman. That is elevationist BS from someone who can't argue against the fact that women die unexpectedly and suffer lifelong physical ailments caused by pregnancy. What you are claiming is that women have no right to self preservation.

If a man has a right to shoot an intruder in his bedroom, a woman has the right to abort an intruder in her uterus.

FYI groups like Planned Parenthood have "secret abortions" with minors that were raped.

If they're secret, how do you know about them?

They provide abortions for rape victims, no questions asked. It actually is a sanctuary for the rapists. That's right. A rapist can bring his rape victim into PP and the abortionist doctors will gladly help abort the baby instead of calling the police.

Any female for any reason is who they should help and why. This paranoid perspective you articulate here is as ignorant and myopic as can be. I can't answer to your imaginings. Their job at PP is to help women, not complicate their situations when they are victimized.
 

D_NATURED

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Re: Life in the womb

Pure tripe.

We have nothing even approaching a theocratic state in the US.

First of all, we have god in our pledge and on our money. Deal with reality, if you can. Secondly, if the only argument against legal abortion is religious, then theocrats they are. If we can't find a secular argument against granting women the right to defend themselves from physical intruders, there isn't one.

Although the expressions in your post show symptoms of voluntary cretinism, we should appreciate all human forms even with expressions so afixed to a subhuman point on the scale.

If there is an example of "voluntary cretinism", it's religion. if you appreciate zygotes the same way you appreciate fully actualized women, you're crazy even before you begin speaking in tongues or asking invisible beings for favors. Fetuses are not sub-human, they are pre-human. A person is more than just a DNA signature.

Religion doesn't have to have anything to do with it. This claim of theocracy grows stale from inapplicability. I am not religious whatsoever, so how do you account for that?

Saying religion has nothing to do with it when the religious dominate the anti-choice side of the debate is the height of ignorance and denial. I don't even know how to answer when people insist that the sky isn't blue. If you remove the people who attach their god's magic to another woman's fetus, the ones left, with the secular arguments, would be statistically zero.

The basics of humanity should apply. Now some may be born lacking this human quality, either congenitally or voluntarily renouncing that common bond with other humans, informed by most of us from our conscience, that inner voice that tells one what is right and wrong. Lacking that, one indeed should probably seek the guidance of a religion or good philosophy so as not to go off the rails and do something one shouldn't. But that is generally not a prerequisite if one, from womb on is able to develop this inner voice of good guidance.

Irrelevant gibberish. There is no excuse for believing in a supernature that demands we treat women like chattel. I think your "little voice" is a misogynist.

Women want and are given choices, more than ever in the history of the planet...

If it's not equality, it's not worth mentioning. Men can defend themselves from threats but women can't, is your ridiculous stance.

all the way up until they conceive another totally distinct human.

OK, genius, when you start claiming that a newly conceived zygote has more rights than the woman who bears it, you have crossed the line into Sillytown. When you further imply that it is "distinct, while it is living inside and threatening the life of a woman, you've gone further into Retardedville. The zygote has distinct DNA but it is not a distinct organism until some woman risks her life growing it inside her and allows it to burst forth into life. As long as it's still feeding off of a woman's physical resources and excreting waste into the bloodstream of a woman, risking HER health and life, it is her life to adjudicate.

Then the only truly lawful way to put that other human to death is after they have been properly adjudicated to have committed a capital crime.

Period.

Obviously, Roe vs. Wade proves that statement to be utterly absurd and a big fat lie. Besides, what you are calling an "other" human is one that lives within a person with pre-existing rights and has NO rights for itself that are not a subset of that woman's rights. So, calling it an "other" is the grossest form of hyperbole and utter BS. A fetus is part of a woman, never anything other than that.
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Re: Life in the womb

First of all, we have god in our pledge and on our money. Deal with reality, if you can. Secondly, if the only argument against legal abortion is religious, then theocrats they are. If we can't find a secular argument against granting women the right to defend themselves from physical intruders, there isn't one.

... if you appreciate zygotes the same way you appreciate fully actualized women, you're crazy even before you begin speaking in tongues or asking invisible beings for favors. Fetuses are not sub-human, they are pre-human. A person is more than just a DNA signature.

Saying religion has nothing to do with it when the religious dominate the anti-choice side of the debate is the height of ignorance and denial... If you remove the people who attach their god's magic to another woman's fetus, the ones left, with the secular arguments, would be statistically zero.

... There is no excuse for believing in a supernature that demands we treat women like chattel. I think your "little voice" is a misogynist.

If it's not equality, it's not worth mentioning. Men can defend themselves from threats but women can't, is your ridiculous stance.

OK, genius, when you start claiming that a newly conceived zygote has more rights than the woman who bears it, you have crossed the line into Sillytown. When you further imply that it is "distinct, while it is living inside and threatening the life of a woman, you've gone further into Retardedville. The zygote has distinct DNA but it is not a distinct organism until some woman risks her life growing it inside her and allows it to burst forth into life...

Obviously, Roe vs. Wade proves that statement to be utterly absurd and a big fat lie. ...
Theocracy = a system of government in which priests rule in the name of God or a god. Sorry, try as you will, we DO NOT have that here. We DO have a republican form of democracy and if WE, the people, vote in legislatures and Presidents that agree with us,even should most have a religious viewpoint, sorry, that is how it goes. It cannot be a specific church or a specific god but WE, you know the People, get to decide and you cannot exclude people from having religious views. Not under our Constitution.

"Person" is essentially an arbitrary designation in the stages of development of humans. That you might get to fully actualized woman w/o going thru that stage as well as infancy, adolescence etc is preposterous. One must pass through the birth canal first before being so considered is obscene. One second on one side and then the next second you are on the other... within two seconds you suddenly, magically become a "person"? Sounds like talking in tongues, speaking to some invisible priest of the secular nonsensical scripture to me.

What I, obvious to most, was saying is that religion has no bearing on MY views. That people can be religious/hold a religious viewpoint is, well, freedom of choice. Why is it that your belief system somehow trumps those of religious people? Atheist predilections just automatically dominate? Based on what? The debate does not have to be, nor is mine in actuality, based on religion. Too big a chunk for you to chew and digest? Not my problem.

Your viewpoint on my voice is irrelevant. A system that gives women all the choices she wants up until there is another individual involved is fair. Attempting to label a differing viewpoint as being against women, not for humanity, might be considered bigotry. About half those in the womb would be of the female gender, we are trying to save those equally. Your gripe with letting babies live? Watch it, some label that pedophobia.

Women, by nature, not through men so deciding, are put in the situation of pregnancy. Something to deal with. Should men blame women for not having prostates and the problems associated? No. A rather silly proposition don't you think? Our natures saddle us all with different problems, one cannot just blame others.

I think we know which of us resides in "Retardedville". Just to stoop that low shows one has not the wherewithal to rise to the challenge of proper debate. That lack of capacity does not mean you should have been aborted, however. That you might think yourself the proper arbiter, along with women, of just who gets to live. who gets murdered, well, lets just say I noticed your zip code, it fits the above location.

Lets use this hypothetical thought experiment. Can a Siamese twin just arbitrarily kill its twin? Since they are attached and all? You think that would/should be legal? I ll leave you to digest that.

Its a free country, you can move to other zip codes.
 

prometeus

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Re: Life in the womb

Lets use this hypothetical thought experiment. Can a Siamese twin just arbitrarily kill its twin? Since they are attached and all?
Thought experiment where you left the thinking out. Kind of hard to do no?
Conjoined twins usually share one or multiple organs, so yo can not kill one without killing the other and in that sense yes they can commit suicide.
A more apt question to ask is: What happens if one of the conjoined twins kills someone? Who will go to jail?
 
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