Lies we are told about Islam

[stevecanuck]

No amount of squirming from you can change the buckets of blood in Christianity’s past....but way to admit your hypocrisy.

Here's what you responded to:

Correct. Now, how does that rebut what I said about the message and example of Jesus?

See that funny looking squiggly thing at the end of the sentence? <--- Look, there another one. Those things are called question marks. You might want to look that up and get back to us. I think this is where I leave you and you prance around declaring victory.

 

[Nickyjo]

Nope. I quote the qur'an. It is self-trashing.



I want you to know it exists. I want you to know that you're being lied to on a regular basis when people try to assure you there's nothing to worry about in Islam. It's not your friend and never will be.



For example? Oh, right. You don't do that. Sorry.



We'll find out in about 50 years. Think Saudi Arabia.

Sorry. We are talking past one another. I don't think there is nothing to worry about so long as bad people use Islam to justify doing bad things. We all knew that once we learned of Osama's reasoning behind 9/11. But you haven't given a clue as to what we should do, now that you have informed us about about some of Islam's toxic beliefs. I am officially afraid, for the sake of argument, thanks to your kindness in informing us. Again, why do we do about what you have revealed?

 

[stevecanuck]

Sorry. We are talking past one another. I don't think there is nothing to worry about so long as bad people use Islam to justify doing bad things.

We have to get passed that rationalization. Islam is not used as a justification for committing atrocities. It is the reason people commit atrocities. That has to be understood before anything can be agreed upon.

We all knew that once we learned of Osama's reasoning behind 9/11. But you haven't given a clue as to what we should do, now that you have informed us about about some of Islam's toxic beliefs. I am officially afraid, for the sake of argument, thanks to your kindness in informing us. Again, why do we do about what you have revealed?

I don't understand why you think my posts should result in action. I provide information. Period. Accept that or don't.

 

[Tigerace117]

Here's what you responded to:

Correct. Now, how does that rebut what I said about the message and example of Jesus?

See that funny looking squiggly thing at the end of the sentence? <--- Look, there another one. Those things are called question marks. You might want to look that up and get back to us. I think this is where I leave you and you prance around declaring victory.

Oh look, you are throwing another tantrum.

Typical Srebrencia Steve, desperately trying to ignore over a thousand years of mass murder because he doesn’t want to fact the fact that his beloved bigotries are all a bunch of crap

 

[Nickyjo]

We have to get passed that rationalization. Islam is not used as a justification for committing atrocities. It is the reason people commit atrocities. That has to be understood before anything can be agreed upon.



I don't understand why you think my posts should result in action. I provide information. Period. Accept that or don't.

We can leave it at this. I don’t believe that Islam is the reason people commit atrocities. You do. I believe more people agree with me than you. But have you consulted with any Islamic scholars and run your concerns about the religion’s teachings by them?

 

[Yasureoktoo]

We can leave it at this. I don’t believe that Islam is the reason people commit atrocities. You do. I believe more people agree with me than you. But have you consulted with any Islamic scholars and run your concerns about the religion’s teachings by them?

Islamic scholars are a major part of the problem.
They read the religion, most muslims have not.
They are at the mercy of what the scholars, clerics, Imans Mulah's, etc. tell them.

 

[Bodi]

I quote the very scriptures that define Islam, and you counter with the babblings of a church that the vast majority of Christians want nothing to do with? Really? That's what you have?

Even if they could could quote hundreds of verses in the bible that say God hates fags, it still wouldn't change one word of what I posted about Islam.

You are dismissed. Enjoy the last word.

You completely hate Islam ... we understand.

 

[Bodi]

Islamic scholars are a major part of the problem.
They read the religion, most muslims have not.
They are at the mercy of what the scholars, clerics, Imans Mulah's, etc. tell them.

Yes... Christians for two thousand years were at the mercy of what the scholars told them too... led to untold millions of deaths, war, suffering...

... BUT ISLAM!!

 

[Bodi]

have you consulted with any Islamic scholars and run your concerns about the religion’s teachings by them?

LOL

 

[Valery]

Then why are women subservient in Muslim countries?

Subservient in what manner? The article you linked talks about gender equity, not equality.

Why can't Christians build churches in Saudi Arabia?

That's not a basic right.

God is addressing "mankind" or "people" (depending on the translator). In doing so he uses the masculine form of the word "nas" as the root.

I know. I already replied to that. Just because a word is masculine doesn't mean it is addressed to males only. It's the way the Arabic language works, as do many other languages. You have to use either a male or a female form. Probably in any language that has similar masculine and feminine plurals, if both men and women are addressed, the masculine form is used.

 

[Valery]

Islamic scholars are a major part of the problem.
They read the religion, most muslims have not.
They are at the mercy of what the scholars, clerics, Imans Mulah's, etc. tell them.

A seeming contradiction here.
your objection no. 1 — the scholars learn the religion well
Your objection no. 2 — most muslims do not
Your objection no. 3 — Muslims listen to the scholars who know the religion.

You can't decide whether to blame Islam or Muslims because of peer pressure?

 

[Valery]

Christianity has two or three contraversial verses,

You must be conservative.
Aside for the old testament laws that are binding on Christians:

Luke 14:26 “If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple."

Matthew 10:34-36 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person’s enemies will be those of his own household."

1 Peter 3:1 "Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, 2 when they see your respectful and pure conduct."

Matthew 15:23 "And his disciples came and begged him, saying, “Send her away, for she is crying out after us.” 24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”'

Matthew 5 17-19 "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

1 Timothy 2:12 "I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."

 

[OrphanSlug]

This conversation does not change much.

We can already conclude that of all the Abrahamic Religions it is Islam that is most incompatible with more modern social understandings, and as such most incompatible with any sense of freedoms or 'equality.'

The only reason that Judaism and Christianity are easier with this subject is they both have been forced to evolve in a manner and under conditions that Islam did not have to go through.

Quoting all the scriptures you can find from Christianity or Islam (or Judaism) does not alter these truths. Nor does it change that even with these evolutions within religion there is still extremes across the board. Who are also incompatible with more modern social understandings and freedoms.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

A seeming contradiction here.
your objection no. 1 — the scholars learn the religion well
Your objection no. 2 — most muslims do not
Your objection no. 3 — Muslims listen to the scholars who know the religion.

You can't decide whether to blame Islam or Muslims because of peer pressure?

Muslims listen to the scholars who manipulate the religion.

Very few read it themselves,
Especially the bio's of Muhammed.

Lets use you as an example,
Have you read Ishaq and Taburi.

 

[Yasureoktoo]

Yes... Christians for two thousand years were at the mercy of what the scholars told them too... led to untold millions of deaths, war, suffering...

... BUT ISLAM!!

Islam holds the record at an estimated 270 million deaths, and chrisianity had a 700 year headstart

 

[Valery]

Muslims listen to the scholars who manipulate the religion.

Very few read it themselves,
Especially the bio's of Muhammed.

Lets use you as an example,
Have you read Ishaq and Taburi.

No, but they're not a must read for all Muslims anyway. The Quran and the sunnah is what Muslims must study and of course they read the biography of the prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) and of the companions. There are many such biographies, however. Furthermore, Islamic law and rulings do not come from the biographies, rather it is known that they contain a lot of weak hadiths.

 

[stevecanuck]

You completely hate Islam ... we understand.

Someone finally got it right. Most people accuse me of hating Muslims rather than the religion they were saddled with by an accident of birth.

Btw, I trust you had no quibbles with the opening posts.

 

[stevecanuck]

Subservient in what manner?

You're kidding, right?

The article you linked talks about gender equity, not equality.

Fair enough. Fairness then. Do you think it's "equitable" for Muslim men to rape their captives as Mohamed and his band of merry men did? Is it "equitable" for a Muslim to consider his wife a "tilth to be plowed" whenever HE feels like it? Apparently you do.

That's not a basic right.

So, worshipping freely is not a right? Okay, agreed. Let's demonstrate that by tearing down all the mosques in the Western world.

I know. I already replied to that. Just because a word is masculine doesn't mean it is addressed to males only. It's the way the Arabic language works, as do many other languages. You have to use either a male or a female form. Probably in any language that has similar masculine and feminine plurals, if both men and women are addressed, the masculine form is used.

In the case I quoted (and you redacted, as usual), the context is crystal clear that men are being spoken to, and women are being spoken of.

Read the first 3 verses of surah 4 word-for-word and try again. God is addressing "mankind" or "people" (depending on the translator). In doing so he uses the masculine form of the word "nas" as the root. He's talking to men. In verse 3 where he tells them to marry up to four "people", he uses the feminine form. Check it out for yourself.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

 

[stevecanuck]

Yes... Christians for two thousand years were at the mercy of what the scholars told them too... led to untold millions of deaths, war, suffering...

... BUT ISLAM!!

The title of the thread should have been a clue.

 

[stevecanuck]

This conversation does not change much.

We can already conclude that of all the Abrahamic Religions it is Islam that is most incompatible with more modern social understandings, and as such most incompatible with any sense of freedoms or 'equality.'

The only reason that Judaism and Christianity are easier with this subject is they both have been forced to evolve in a manner and under conditions that Islam did not have to go through.

Quoting all the scriptures you can find from Christianity or Islam (or Judaism) does not alter these truths. Nor does it change that even with these evolutions within religion there is still extremes across the board. Who are also incompatible with more modern social understandings and freedoms.

Actually many here deny that.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Actually many here deny that.

Then they are lying to themselves as well as us.

 

[stevecanuck]

Then they are lying to themselves as well as us.

Yes, and it all comes down to ego. They are 100% invested in denying Islam's murder-inspiring commands, and no amount of evidence will ever make them admit that it's way worse than would have guessed. So, they deflect, and deflect, and deflect.

At the end of Islam's evolution (fighting wasn't even hinted at in the first 12 years) Mohamed fully transformed it into a warrior religion with verse 9:111, and that's what we're dealing with today. That verse states in no uncertain terms that God requires fighting and killing as requirements for entry into heaven, yet none of the deniers ever acknowledge the importance of it.

 

[Bodi]

Islam holds the record at an estimated 270 million deaths, and chrisianity had a 700 year headstart

Nice try... but that is an incredibly weak Straw Man.

 

[Bodi]

Someone finally got it right. Most people accuse me of hating Muslims rather than the religion they were saddled with by an accident of birth.

Btw, I trust you had no quibbles with the opening posts.

No quibbles with the posts but I would say two things...

1. The vast majority of Muslims do not practice all of that in that manner... they are modern, open, accepting, not discriminating, etc.

2. There are many passages in the Bible that can be shown to make Christianity look oppressive, violent, sexist, etc.

 

[stevecanuck]

No quibbles with the posts but I would say two things...

1. The vast majority of Muslims do not practice all of that in that manner... they are modern, open, accepting, not discriminating, etc.

At least now you know why there are Muslims who do commit acts of terrorism. The percentage isn't the issue.

2. There are many passages in the Bible that can be shown to make Christianity look oppressive, violent, sexist, etc.

I await your thread.