Lies we are told about Islam

[stevecanuck]

The Canadian Council of Imams issued the following declaration in which they make claims that are not only untrue, but in my opinion purposely deceitful: http://canadiancouncilofimams.com/cci-declaration/ Here are examples of deceptive quotes from the declaration:


"All human beings are equal", and "We believe in gender equity".

The Qur'an describes people only in terms of being either believers (mumineen) or unbelievers (kuffar), and their standing in the eyes of God is anything but equal. Every description of good versus evil, or right versus wrong in the Qur'an is given in terms of belief versus unbelief, believers versus unbelievers. The unfavourable comparison is relentless, and by way of example, here are but four of literally hundreds of verses I could have chosen to demonstrate the point: Verse 8:55 - "The worst of God's beasts are unbelievers", 2:98, "God is the enemy of unbelievers", 3:34, "God does not love unbelievers", and 7:176, "his (an unbeliever's) likeness is as the likeness of a dog: if you attack him he pants with his tongue out, and if you leave him he pants with his tongue out. Such is the likeness of the people who deny Our revelations".

Verse 4:92 makes it clear that an unbeliever's life is worth less than a Muslim's, "Never should a Muslim kill another Muslim". The message is reinforced in this hadith:

Bukhari, Volume: 1, Book Number: 3, Hadith Number: 111, Narrated Ash-Sha'bi:
...no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever).

Muslims themselves are divided into two groups according to 4:95 - "Not equal are those Muslims who do not fight in the cause of Islam with those who do fight. God has granted a higher grade to those who fight". Much more disturbing than God's pecking order within Islam is the fact that it is based on a Muslim's willingness to take up arms against unbelievers.

Slavery is allowed in Islam, which alone belies any claim that "all human beings are equal". Verse 2:221 proves both the inferiority of unbelievers and the allowance of slavery as it says, "Do not wed idolatresses until they believe (become Muslim). A slave woman who believes is better than an unbeliever". That verse alone contains 3 Islamic tenets which have no place in today's world: 1). Muslims are better than unbelievers, 2) Slavery is acceptable, and 3) It is even allowable for Muslims to enslave fellow Muslims.

A 4th implied tenet is that the Qur'an's intended audience is clearly male. In every verse of the Qur'an that makes it clear to whom the god of Islam is speaking, it is to men. He speaks to men, but only about women. The fact that Surah 4 is titled "Women", and describes how to treat them, proves the point. Its verse 34 contains the much-discussed admonition for men to beat their disobedient wives. In Arabic it reads "wa iDrubu hunna" which means "and beat them". Any attempt to soften its meaning by adding the word "lightly" is deception.

continued ....

 

[stevecanuck]

A Women's status in Islam is considered little more than that of property as demonstrated by 2:223, "Your wives are as a tilth unto you, so approach your tilth when or how you will". This verse gives women exactly zero choice in whether to have sex, and is at the heart of Afghanistan's infamous marital rape law; an edict of overt misogyny symbolized by the burqa, which is nothing more than a head to foot chastity belt signifying ownership. Especially at risk of sexual abuse are slaves (servants), captives, and young girls. Verses 70:29-30, in describing men who will be favoured by God, list, "those who guard their chastity, except for their wives and the captives whom their right hands possess". This clearly gives Muslim men divine permission to rape their slaves/captives of war, and is further confirmed by the following hadith:

Bukhari, Volume: 7, Book Number: 62, Hadith Number: 137, Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that, repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection." (In other words, why restrict yourself to coitus interruptus when God has already ordained whether the rape victim will become pregnant?)

Verse 65:4 details how long a man must wait before turning out a divorced wife depending on her situation. Included in the list are "those who have not yet menstruated". This, along with the fact that Mohamed married a six-year-old and consummated the marriage when she was nine, gives Muslim men license to marry prepubescent girls.

I would be hard pressed to imagine a belief less built on equality, and especially gender equity, than Islam.

continued ...

 

[stevecanuck]

"Islam is a religion that promotes peace, justice, equality, dignity, and freedom for all human beings".

The existence of dhimmitude (a category of second-class citizenship reserved for conquered unbelievers) is what passes for "freedom for all human beings" in Islam. Verse 9:29 tells Muslims to fight unbelievers ("the people of the book") until they accept Islam, or pay the jizyah and are humiliated. This is a form of surrender that allows unbelievers to worship as they wish, but to live in total submission to Islamic rule, and therefore Sharia.

As previously stated, slavery is allowed and frequently mentioned in the Qur'an, and always in a matter-of-fact manner. Never is it said to be wrong, and never is it commanded to be abolished. Muslims are only required to free a slave as an act of contrition for a crime they have committed. I wonder how the council reconciles that with it's claim that Islam promotes equality and freedom for all human beings.

"The best Muslim is one....who avoids harming others with his/her hand or tongue".

This is an outright lie. Hadiths are the source of this statement, and as shown below, the real wording contains a significant difference:

Bukhari, Volume: 1, Book Number: 2, Hadith Number: 9, Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr:
The Prophet said, "A Muslim is the one who avoids harming Muslims with his tongue and hands".

Bukhari, Volume: 1, Book Number: 2, Hadith Number: 10, Narrated Abu Musa:
Some people asked Allah's Apostle, "Whose Islam is the best? i.e. (Who is a very good Muslim)?" He replied, "One who avoids harming the Muslims with his tongue and hands."

This sentiment is confirmed by the aforementioned verse 4:92 of the Qur'an, which begins, "Never should a Muslim kill another Muslim".

continued ...

 

[stevecanuck]

"We believe in peaceful coexistence".

This is disproved by both the Qur'an and the history of the first Muslims. Unlike today's Muslims, they were a small, but completely unified group. They had no possibility of misinterpreting either the wording, or the meaning of the Qur'an because they lived with the man who was 'receiving' and teaching it, and all in their own language. They not only believed they were listening to a literal sermon from God, but they were also receiving clarification of His message from the prophet himself, and observing his actions as the perfect exemplar.

Therefore, I believe it reasonable to assume that the actions of Mohamed and his followers represent the purest manifestation of the teachings of Islam. The fact that Mohamed raised an army rather than a flock speaks volumes, and that he directed it against the pagans of Mecca proves it was an army of conquest. He began his war on the Meccans by raiding their trade caravans, and he continued hostilities against them until they surrendered and adopted Islam in 630 AD. Also, in 629 he sent a raiding party against the Byzantines in what was a harbinger of the massive wars of conquest that were only a few years off.

Shortly after Mohamed's death, with his message and example still fresh, the Caliphs (his successors) set out to conquer the known world. First they established complete control over the Arabian Peninsula by defeating rival Muslim sects in the Riddah wars. Then they traveled north and attacked the Byzantine and Sassanian Persian Empires who were busy fighting each other over the Fertile Crescent, and neither of whom had ever encroached on Muslim lands. This was a war of conquest, pure and simple, and completely absent any need to fight in self defense. After successfully taking the Fertile Crescent including Egypt, armies of Muslims crossed northern Africa and eventually conquered the Iberian peninsula, while to the east their invaders crossed the Oxus River reaching the frontiers of China. They extended Islamic rule as far as their military might would allow. These irrefutable historical facts are conveniently ignored by all who claim Islam is a religion of peace whose followers only fight in self-defense.

As to the Qur'an, surah 9, which is the last chronologically (expect for three final verses), describes where Islam was finally taken after 20 years of evolution. It is a 129-verse call to arms set in the context of Mohamed's attempt to do battle with the Byzantines at Tabuk. Verse 9:111 summarizes the message not only of this surah, but of Islam as a whole as it developed after the Hijrah in 612CE. It says, "God has bought from the believers their selves and their possessions against the gift of Paradise; they fight in the way of God; they kill, and are killed". With that and verses such as 9:29, Islam completed its transition to warrior religion.

continued ...

 

[stevecanuck]

"The sanctity of human life overrides the sanctity of religious laws".

Some countries run by Sharia have the death penalty for apostasy, and like every law in Islam, it too has it's basis in scripture. This hadith clearly shows Mohamed giving apostasy as one of three reasons for putting another Muslim to death:

Bukhari, Volume: 9, Book Number: 83, Hadith Number: 17, Narrated 'Abdullah:
Allah's Apostle said, "The blood of a Muslim who confesses that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that I am His Apostle, cannot be shed except in three cases: In Qisas for murder (of a Muslim), a married person who commits illegal sexual intercourse and the one who reverts from Islam and leaves the Muslims."
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The standard rebuttal I get, in an attempt at blanket dismissal minus any real counterpoint, is to say that I took quotes out of context or cherry-picked them. However, many of the statements in the Qur'an are stand-alone proclamations from God which Islamist terrorists are prone to use as justification for their actions, and always without regard for context. I don't see any way that, "God is the enemy of infidels (2:98)" or, "God does not love infidels (3:32)" could mean anything other than what they so clearly state, regardless of context. As to cherry-picking, the Qur'an and hadiths are an orchard of cherry trees.

In conclusion, the signatories to the Council's declaration have demonstrated something I have known for a long time; the only way to make Islam sound compatible with the modern world is to lie about what it teaches.​

 

[Tigerace117]

The Westboro Baptist Church declared that God hates America because America allows gay people to have rights.

Therefore, the only way to make Christianity compatible with the modern world is to lie about what it teaches.

 

[stevecanuck]

The Westboro Baptist Church declared that God hates America because America allows gay people to have rights.

Therefore, the only way to make Christianity compatible with the modern world is to lie about what it teaches.

I quote the very scriptures that define Islam, and you counter with the babblings of a church that the vast majority of Christians want nothing to do with? Really? That's what you have?

Even if they could could quote hundreds of verses in the bible that say God hates fags, it still wouldn't change one word of what I posted about Islam.

You are dismissed. Enjoy the last word.

 

[Tigerace117]

I quote the very scriptures that define Islam, and you counter with the babblings of a church that the vast majority of Christians want nothing to do with? Really? That's what you have?

Even if they could could quote hundreds of verses in the bible that say God hates fags, it still wouldn't change one word of what I posted about Islam.

You are dismissed. Enjoy the last word.

You posted one group’s warped interpretation and claimed it spoke for the entire religion....so I did the same thing. Where’s your evidence that any Muslims actually give a shit what this group claims?

As usual, Srebrencia Steve, you are desperately flailing about, hoping to “justify” your bigotry.

 

[stevecanuck]

You posted one group’s warped interpretation and claimed it spoke for the entire religion....so I did the same thing. Where’s your evidence that any Muslims actually give a shit what this group claims?

As usual, Srebrencia Steve, you are desperately flailing about, hoping to “justify” your bigotry.

Here they are. If you want to dismiss them, that's your call:

About CCI – CCI

canadiancouncilofimams.com

 

[Tigerace117]

Here they are. If you want to dismiss them, that's your call:

About CCI – CCI

canadiancouncilofimams.com

So no evidence that anyone actually cares about this group’s interpretation. Got it.

 

[Valery]

There can be no absolute equality anywhere. It is always in a context. People are equal in their basic rights and their duties and they are all accountable on the Day of Judgment. No one is better or worse for being of a certain race, nationality, for having a certain amount of wealth, for being born to a certain family or for having a certain job.

Are people equal in their abilities? No.
In their morals? No.
In their intelligence? No.
Are they equally good or kind? No.

Just because some words are masculine, doesn't mean the address is only to men.

 

[CLAX1911]

The Canadian Council of Imams issued the following declaration in which they make claims that are not only untrue, but in my opinion purposely deceitful: http://canadiancouncilofimams.com/cci-declaration/ Here are examples of deceptive quotes from the declaration:


"All human beings are equal", and "We believe in gender equity".

The Qur'an describes people only in terms of being either believers (mumineen) or unbelievers (kuffar), and their standing in the eyes of God is anything but equal. Every description of good versus evil, or right versus wrong in the Qur'an is given in terms of belief versus unbelief, believers versus unbelievers. The unfavourable comparison is relentless, and by way of example, here are but four of literally hundreds of verses I could have chosen to demonstrate the point: Verse 8:55 - "The worst of God's beasts are unbelievers", 2:98, "God is the enemy of unbelievers", 3:34, "God does not love unbelievers", and 7:176, "his (an unbeliever's) likeness is as the likeness of a dog: if you attack him he pants with his tongue out, and if you leave him he pants with his tongue out. Such is the likeness of the people who deny Our revelations".

Verse 4:92 makes it clear that an unbeliever's life is worth less than a Muslim's, "Never should a Muslim kill another Muslim". The message is reinforced in this hadith:

Bukhari, Volume: 1, Book Number: 3, Hadith Number: 111, Narrated Ash-Sha'bi:
...no Muslim should be killed in Qisas (equality in punishment) for the killing of (a disbeliever).

Muslims themselves are divided into two groups according to 4:95 - "Not equal are those Muslims who do not fight in the cause of Islam with those who do fight. God has granted a higher grade to those who fight". Much more disturbing than God's pecking order within Islam is the fact that it is based on a Muslim's willingness to take up arms against unbelievers.

Slavery is allowed in Islam, which alone belies any claim that "all human beings are equal". Verse 2:221 proves both the inferiority of unbelievers and the allowance of slavery as it says, "Do not wed idolatresses until they believe (become Muslim). A slave woman who believes is better than an unbeliever". That verse alone contains 3 Islamic tenets which have no place in today's world: 1). Muslims are better than unbelievers, 2) Slavery is acceptable, and 3) It is even allowable for Muslims to enslave fellow Muslims.

A 4th implied tenet is that the Qur'an's intended audience is clearly male. In every verse of the Qur'an that makes it clear to whom the god of Islam is speaking, it is to men. He speaks to men, but only about women. The fact that Surah 4 is titled "Women", and describes how to treat them, proves the point. Its verse 34 contains the much-discussed admonition for men to beat their disobedient wives. In Arabic it reads "wa iDrubu hunna" which means "and beat them". Any attempt to soften its meaning by adding the word "lightly" is deception.

continued ....

This may actually be the beginnings of a Renaissance for Islam. It desperately needs one. The people that will benefit the most from this are Muslims. They have to look at their religion and look at it critically a lot of people are deemed blasphemous for even thinking such a thing. This is how dogmatic religious organizations control people.

 

[CLAX1911]

I quote the very scriptures that define Islam, and you counter with the babblings of a church that the vast majority of Christians want nothing to do with? Really? That's what you have?

Even if they could could quote hundreds of verses in the bible that say God hates fags, it still wouldn't change one word of what I posted about Islam.

You are dismissed. Enjoy the last word.

Yes he's doing what is called whataboutism. the thread wasn't about Christianity or Buddhism or taoism or anything else it was about Islam and he said what about Christianity. He thinks 35 people that are most likely inbred in nowhere Kansas Define Christianity.

 

[stevecanuck]

There can be no absolute equality anywhere. It is always in a context. People are equal in their basic rights

Then why are women subservient in Muslim countries? Why can't Christians build churches in Saudi Arabia?

and their duties and they are all accountable on the Day of Judgment. No one is better or worse for being of a certain race, nationality, for having a certain amount of wealth, for being born to a certain family or for having a certain job.

Correct. According to Islam they are only better for being Muslims. (ie: NOT the worst of God's creatures like the rest of us).

Are people equal in their abilities? No.
In their morals? No.
In their intelligence? No.
Are they equally good or kind? No.

Correct, and utterly off topic.

Just because some words are masculine, doesn't mean the address is only to men.

Read the first 3 verses of surah 4 word-for-word and try again. God is addressing "mankind" or "people" (depending on the translator). In doing so he uses the masculine form of the word "nas" as the root. He's talking to men. In verse 3 where he tells them to marry up to four "people", he uses the feminine form. Check it out for yourself.

The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Word by Word Grammar, Syntax and Morphology of the Holy Quran

corpus.quran.com

 

[devildavid]

The only lies being told about Islam seem to come from people like the one who started this thread. But we already knew that.

 

[stevecanuck]

This may actually be the beginnings of a Renaissance for Islam. It desperately needs one. The people that will benefit the most from this are Muslims. They have to look at their religion and look at it critically a lot of people are deemed blasphemous for even thinking such a thing. This is how dogmatic religious organizations control people.

I wish it were possible, but I just don't see how you can get around the Qur'an. It's the "word of God", and it says what it says. It is simply not possible to edit God.

 

[stevecanuck]

The only lies being told about Islam seem to come from people like the one who started this thread. But we already knew that.

Is this the part of the program where I ask you to be specific, and you run away?

 

[calamity]

I wish it were possible, but I just don't see how you can get around the Qur'an. It's the "word of God", and it says what it says. It is simply not possible to edit God.

Just another religion claiming to speak for the god that does not exist. How is Islam any different than any other lying religion?

You do agree that there is no god, correct? Or are you going to tell us your god is correct? Which is it?

 

[stevecanuck]

Just another religion claiming to speak for the god that does not exist. How is Islam any different than any other lying religion?

Really? You mean the fact that it calls the rest of us animals and says to conquer us isn't enough for you?

You do agree that there is no god, correct? Or are you going to tell us your god is correct? Which is it?

Well, since you asked so nicely, I'll tell you. There are no sky fairies.

 

[Buckeyes85]

Really? You mean the fact that it calls the rest of us animals and says to conquer us isn't enough for you?



Well, since you asked so nicely, I'll tell you. There are no sky fairies.

I could be wrong but thought you claimed to be an atheist.
If correct, why all these topics on the inaccuracy of the Quran? Atheists dont believe any of it is correct, so the point seems moot? Agreed?

 

[calamity]

Really? You mean the fact that it calls the rest of us animals and says to conquer us isn't enough for you?

I believe similar quotes can be found in the Old Testament. Certainly, there is suggestion of genocide within those pages, all of them claiming that the erasure of enemies is doing "God's will."

Well, since you asked so nicely, I'll tell you. There are no sky fairies.

Ok, so we agree it (god and/or gods) is all bullshit. That's a start.

 

[calamity]

I could be wrong but thought you claimed to be an atheist.
If correct, why all these topics on the inaccuracy of the Quran? Atheists dont believe any of it is correct, so the point seems moot? Agreed?

As an atheist, I once believed that Islam was worse than all the other bullshit religions. However, after further review, I found this to not be the case. Extremist Muslims are no worse than Extremist Christians, Jews, Latter Day Saints or even Buddhists. However, I have not seen too much yet that is really awful from Extremist Jehovah Witnesses, but that could be because they are too busy running away from the persecution of extremist Christians, Jews, Muslims and Buddhists.

 

[stevecanuck]

I could be wrong but thought you claimed to be an atheist.
If correct, why all these topics on the inaccuracy of the Quran? Atheists dont believe any of it is correct, so the point seems moot? Agreed?

I would think that saying, "there are no sky fairies" makes it clear I'm an atheist.

My interest in the Qur'an lies in the fact that those who follow it faithfully are responsible for terrorism. I quote it and expose lies told about it to lay bare it's calls for violent overthrow of the infidel world (that would be us).

 

[CLAX1911]

I wish it were possible, but I just don't see how you can get around the Qur'an. It's the "word of God", and it says what it says. It is simply not possible to edit God.

Well Muslims think that every Quran is exactly the same they teach this once they learn to accept that that's not true then maybe they'll start questioning things. I'm sure it was thought to be impossible during the dark ages of christianity, but here we are.

This religion will have to evolve or die.

 

[stevecanuck]

I believe similar quotes can be found in the Old Testament. Certainly, there is suggestion of genocide within those pages, all of them claiming that the erasure of enemies is doing "God's will."

Oh look, more whataboutism. Never a rebuttal, only (false) whataboutism. Start a thread if you believe that so strongly. Jesus (according the Christian belief, not mine) forgave and healed. Mohamed made war and had people executed.