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Lies, Democracy & Obama

Wehrwolfen

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By Bruce Thornton
August 13, 2013


The great French political philosopher Jean-François Revel once wrote, “Democracy cannot survive without a certain diet of truth. It cannot survive if the degree of truth in current circulation falls below a minimal level. A democratic regime, founded on the free determination of important choices made by a majority, condemns itself to death if most of the citizens who have to choose between various options make their decisions in ignorance of reality, blinded by passions or misled by fleeting impressions.” If Revel is correct, the rapidly diminishing level of truth in our public discourse suggests that we are in dire straits.

I’m not talking about the sordid lies politicians tell in order to survive. Lechers like Bill Clinton or Bob Filner caught in the act have lied from time immemorial. But that sort of desperate lie, whatever larger damage it may do, is nothing compared to ideological lies of the sort corrupting our society. Those lies reflect peculiarly modern ideas, particularly the notion that since truth is relative, presumed noble aims in the service of some bright future of peace and justice make it acceptable to tell lies or ignore the truth.

The history of communist support and subversion by those living in Western democracies is obviously filled with such lies and liars. Marxism, with its promised future world of equality, peace, and justice, made lying a moral obligation. After all, there were so many “enemies of the people” hindering and resisting the inevitable communist utopia, and standing in the way of a “scientific” political and economic evolution. Of course it was noble to lie away “inconvenient truths” that gave ammunition to reactionaries and fascists who, out of irrational spite or selfishness, were fighting against the paradise to come. Thus a Walter Duranty or a Lincoln Steffens could eagerly lie about the millions starved to death or slaughtered in the Soviet gulags, for nothing, not even the truth, could be allowed to derail the locomotive of revolution steaming toward the perfect world.


[Excerpt]

Read more:
Lies, Democracy & Obama | FrontPage Magazine


“Anything is better than lies and deceit!” -- Leo Tolstoy
 

TheDemSocialist

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"The history of communist support and subversion by those living in Western democracies is obviously filled with such lies and liars. Marxism, with its promised future world of equality, peace, and justice, made lying a moral obligation. "

Once Obama and Marxism is mentioned i leave this drivel ****.
 

specklebang

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When George copped to the cherry tree event, that was the last time truth was told in the history of politics. Or did I miss something, was there ever another case of the truth? The whole idea of democracy is the right to bull****.
 

Wehrwolfen

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"The history of communist support and subversion by those living in Western democracies is obviously filled with such lies and liars. Marxism, with its promised future world of equality, peace, and justice, made lying a moral obligation. "

Once Obama and Marxism is mentioned i leave this drivel ****.
As a self avowed Social Marxist what else would you do? Only those with weak and closed minds would refuse to read anything that might shed light on the errors of their ideology. Surely there's been enough said against our Constitution and way of Democracy on these boards.
 

TheDemSocialist

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As a self avowed Social Marxist what else would you do?

Im not a Marxist.

Only those with weak and closed minds would refuse to read anything that might shed light on the errors of their ideology. Surely there's been enough said against our Constitution and way of Democracy on these boards.
So wait. Lemme get this straight. You hold Obama is a "socialist Marxist" so why wouldnt us (as you described me) "socialists Marxists" be cheering in the streets that we won? I mean if there is a "socialist Marxist" is in the whtie house why arent any socialist or Marxists or both claiming him? I mean have you heard any socialist or marxists or both talk about this guy or held their opinions on him. I will tell you its not positive...
 

Coin

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On a communist regime you were lied, but at least you knew it, however you were forced to obey it.

On democracy, the lie become a true and the true become a lie.
 

Buck Ewer

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President Obama is, and governs as a centrist.
This hyperbolic name calling is a demonstration of the radical extremes one faction of the republicon party has gone to.
When a centrist looks like a Marxist to them, how much further right can one possibly go?
 

Gaugingcatenate

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Im not a Marxist.


So wait. Lemme get this straight. You hold Obama is a "socialist Marxist" so why wouldnt us (as you described me) "socialists Marxists" be cheering in the streets that we won? I mean if there is a "socialist Marxist" is in the whtie house why arent any socialist or Marxists or both claiming him? I mean have you heard any socialist or marxists or both talk about this guy or held their opinions on him. I will tell you its not positive...
So, what is your particular brand of utipian dystopianism then?

And we don't know, why aren't you cheering in the streets? Perhaps you know that by advertising that fact, that whatever type, Obama is a socialist at heart and more and more in policy, that will alert more of those sleeping as to what is really going on here. Here is another article from the same magazine that gives you an indication of how its already being done, how it has been done for a long time.

The Soft Totalitarianism of Nudging | FrontPage Magazine

And this, from the horses mouth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3nXvScRazg
 

trfjr

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President Obama is, and governs as a centrist.
This hyperbolic name calling is a demonstration of the radical extremes one faction of the republicon party has gone to.
When a centrist looks like a Marxist to them, how much further right can one possibly go?
when has advocating the redistribution of wealth and the government take over of health care be considered a centrist. only in countries like N.Koria would he be a centrist
 

Gaugingcatenate

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President Obama is, and governs as a centrist.
This hyperbolic name calling is a demonstration of the radical extremes one faction of the republicon party has gone to.
When a centrist looks like a Marxist to them, how much further right can one possibly go?
Hard for you to get past your deep set prejudice against the Republican party I see. I was in Boston, attended Harvard for a class, saw the overt labeling and discrimination portrayed in that atmosphere, where a woman, a supposed authority, could get up in an auditorium speaking to a huge audience studying American Democracy and the Media, and say that men, American men, have created all the problems in the world. When a man stood up during the question period afterwards and took umbrage to this statement, she looked at him, a man of color and had the gall to say, "Oh, I am not talking about you, I am talking about White men." I left that auditorium sooooo steamed going to meet with our assigned groups, I would not let it go... that is such crap and all the guys in my group, meek and whipped, all from northern [liberal] states did not have the guts to say a thing.

Two finally had the intestinal fortitude to at least agree somewhat, sided with me that maybe, just maybe, she went slightly over the line.

Here this lady, a lady that is in a position to influence many others in this "high education" environment, living in this great country, and she has obviously not studied our history or the history of the rest of the world, and makes a blatantly erroneous statement like that? How utterly and absolutely ignorant. We have our warts and scars, but compare us to any other major country in world history... there is no comparison to the good we have done and accomplished, nor the colossal evils that most others have inflicted upon their fellows.
 

trfjr

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Im not a Marxist.


So wait. Lemme get this straight. You hold Obama is a "socialist Marxist" so why wouldnt us (as you described me) "socialists Marxists" be cheering in the streets that we won? I mean if there is a "socialist Marxist" is in the whtie house why arent any socialist or Marxists or both claiming him? I mean have you heard any socialist or marxists or both talk about this guy or held their opinions on him. I will tell you its not positive...
a socialist is a not fully committed communist. they are conumist light
 

Buck Ewer

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when has advocating the redistribution of wealth and the government take over of health care be considered a centrist. only in countries like N.Koria would he be a centrist
All government redistributes wealth ... are you an anarchist?
Nobody has yet proposed a government "takeover" of healthcare. If you are referring to the AHA you have no idea what you are talking about. The insurance and big pharma corporations will still, by in large, run the healthcare system. The AHA just tweeks the system so that the poor and indigent are less likely to fall through the cracks. Humane normalization of the profit gouging insurance industry through minor regulation looks like a "takeover" ?
That tells us a lot about you, and who you have been listening to.
 
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Buck Ewer

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Hard for you to get past your deep set prejudice against the Republican party I see. I was in Boston, attended Harvard for a class, saw the overt labeling and discrimination portrayed in that atmosphere, where a woman, a supposed authority, could get up in an auditorium speaking to a huge audience studying American Democracy and the Media, and say that men, American men, have created all the problems in the world. When a man stood up during the question period afterwards and took umbrage to this statement, she looked at him, a man of color and had the gall to say, "Oh, I am not talking about you, I am talking about White men." I left that auditorium sooooo steamed going to meet with our assigned groups, I would not let it go... that is such crap and all the guys in my group, meek and whipped, all from northern [liberal] states did not have the guts to say a thing.

Two finally had the intestinal fortitude to at least agree somewhat, sided with me that maybe, just maybe, she went slightly over the line.

Here this lady, a lady that is in a position to influence many others in this "high education" environment, living in this great country, and she has obviously not studied our history or the history of the rest of the world, and makes a blatantly erroneous statement like that? How utterly and absolutely ignorant. We have our warts and scars, but compare us to any other major country in world history... there is no comparison to the good we have done and accomplished, nor the colossal evils that most others have inflicted upon their fellows.
One overzealous woman's rights advocate hurt your masculine sensibilities and you forever condemn yourself to the immoral wasteland of republicon conservatism?
Someone needs to grow a thicker skin. ( she didn't mean it ...it was a rhetorical device)
 

YoungConserv

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All government redistributes wealth ... are you an anarchist?
Nobody has yet proposed a government "takeover" of healthcare. If you are referring to the AHA you have no idea what you are talking about. The insurance and big pharma corporations will still, by in large, run the healthcare system. The AHA just tweeks the system so that the poor and indigent are less likely to fall through the cracks. Humane normalization of the profit gouging insurance industry through minor regulation looks like a "takeover" ?
That tells us a lot about you, and who you have been listening to.
Up until the new deal we had a government that did not redistribute wealth.
 

Buck Ewer

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Up until the new deal we had a government that did not redistribute wealth.
Oh really?
The New Deal made liberal use of conservative taxes. Some of the most important elements of the New Deal tax regime were engineered by Herbert Hoover. Congress passed the Revenue Act of 1932 five months before Franklin Roosevelt won his bid for the White House. But key elements of the law -- including an array of regressive consumption taxes -- remained a cornerstone of federal finance throughout the 1930s.

The 1932 act imposed the largest peacetime tax increase in American history. Congress expected it to raise roughly $1.1 billion in new revenue, much of it from the rich. Lawmakers raised income tax rates across the board, with the top marginal rate jumping from 25 percent to 63 percent; overall effective rates on the richest 1 percent doubled, according to economic historian Elliot Brownlee. Meanwhile, estate tax rates also climbed sharply, while the exemption was cut by half.

For all its progressive features, Hoover's revenue swan song -- which passed with strong support from the Democratic majority in Congress -- also included an array of regressive excise taxes. The law created new levies (including taxes on gasoline and electricity), while raising rates for old ones. As a group, most of these consumption taxes fell squarely on the shoulders of Roosevelt's famous Forgotten Man. Yet once in office, the new president did nothing to reduce them. Indeed, excise taxes provided anywhere from a third to half of federal revenue throughout the 1930s.
Tax History Project: New Deal Taxes: Four Things Everyone Should Know
The story of the growth of the federal government can be divided into two parts: before and after 1913, when the 16th amendment to the Constitution, which permitted a federal income tax, was ratified. In 1913 federal spending was a mere 2.5 percent of GNP (today spending is almost ten times that level); so if the federal government is measured only by spending, little growth took place before the income tax. Before 1913, however, the federal government grew in other ways, by enlarging its power and changing its mandate. When the colonies came together to form the United States, the founders viewed the new government as the defender of its citizens’ liberty. That meant protecting their rights-and in those days the most significant threat to the rights of individuals was, in nearly everyone’s eyes, the government itself. By 1913 the federal government had been transformed into an organization not to protect rights, but, ostensibly, to further the nation’s economic well-being.
Federal Government Growth Before the New Deal: Newsroom: The Independent Institute
Revisionists history is a bad habit to get into...
...and you won't get away with it here.
 
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Ontologuy

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Democracy also cannot survive in the face of dictatorital threats by the President of the U.S. ..

.. And Now Rubio reports that Obama is threatening to make an executive order legalizing the 20 million illegals, despite Congress's refusal at this point to do so.

Obama is behaving like a dictator!

He should be impeached for abuse of power!
 

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Wehrwolfen

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Im not a Marxist.


So wait. Lemme get this straight. You hold Obama is a "socialist Marxist" so why wouldnt us (as you described me) "socialists Marxists" be cheering in the streets that we won? I mean if there is a "socialist Marxist" is in the whtie house why arent any socialist or Marxists or both claiming him? I mean have you heard any socialist or marxists or both talk about this guy or held their opinions on him. I will tell you its not positive...
Hmm...., I accidentally clicked your profile and came away with this:

Anti-Capitalists
Boob-lovers Anonymous
COMINTERN
DebatePolitics No Place for Nazi's/National Socialists
Democracy; Not "Democracy"
Destroy the Tea Party!
Hammer and Sickle
History Junkies
Left Anarchists and Libertarian Socialists
Palestinian Solidarity

That's just some of it. Apparently both you and Van Jones went to the same brainwashing school.
 

TheDemSocialist

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So, what is your particular brand of utipian dystopianism then?
Democratic Socialist.

And we don't know, why aren't you cheering in the streets? Perhaps you know that by advertising that fact, that whatever type, Obama is a socialist at heart and more and more in policy, that will alert more of those sleeping as to what is really going on here. Here is another article from the same magazine that gives you an indication of how its already being done, how it has been done for a long time.
:lamo
Hahaha oohhh you sou know deep down Obama is a socialist somewhere in that "heart" of his
:lamo
Ohh so this is how the lunatic right thinks.
So let me ask you what socialist policies has Obama initiated?
 

TheDemSocialist

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Hmm...., I accidentally clicked your profile and came away with this:

Anti-Capitalists
Boob-lovers Anonymous
COMINTERN
DebatePolitics No Place for Nazi's/National Socialists
Democracy; Not "Democracy"
Destroy the Tea Party!
Hammer and Sickle
History Junkies
Left Anarchists and Libertarian Socialists
Palestinian Solidarity

That's just some of it. Apparently both you and Van Jones went to the same brainwashing school.
So you dont wanna talk about the issue at hand but instead focus on me and Van Jones?
 

TheDemSocialist

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a socialist is a not fully committed communist. they are conumist light
:no:
This is a prime example why our education system if failing us.
 

roughdraft274

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.. And Now Rubio reports that Obama is threatening to make an executive order legalizing the 20 million illegals, despite Congress's refusal at this point to do so.
Rubio said that Obama could "basically legalize" illegal aliens if he wanted to. He did not say that Obama threatened it. You are either ignorant of the truth or lying.
 

Wehrwolfen

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So you dont wanna talk about the issue at hand but instead focus on me and Van Jones?
As I previously wrote, I accidentally accessed your profile and was astonished to see that your ideology matches that of Van Jones and undoubtedly that of Anita Dunn and your idol Barack Obama II. I'm sure you carry your little Red Book of Mao Zedong too. But hey, that's what makes the world go round. You have your Marxist ideals and wish to impose them on others. Isn't American Freedom great? I'm sure that you would be comfortable living in the Peoples Republic of China, or in Communist Russia. I write this not to criticize you or degrade you, only to identify you.
As far as the subject the at hand, I'm sure that it raised your hackles if only in identifying the truth.
 
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