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Libs vs. Cons

Pull My Finger

Pull My Finger

Air Biscuits for Everyone
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No sarcasm intended...

I don't know if I'm Lib or Con, Rep or Democrat. Nor do I care.
(though I"m learning I am probably considered extreme left, and liberal?)
I am Canadian, and I have voted for both the Liberals & PC depending on the issues.

In my short time here, I am surprised at the importance placed on these labels. (I do understand this is a political debate forum)

While I have seen the so-called 'libs' throw a jab or two at the so-called 'cons', it is overwhelmingly the so-called 'cons' who routinely attack someone's views as being 'left' or 'lib' as if they have the plague.

I had thought that since 9/11 this divide would have been lessened. It seems deeper, even hateful.

It almost seems like 'political racism'.

What is your take?

Peace
 
What kind of thing is that to say? Are you some dysfunctional moderate?

In all seriousness, that's a great post and even better observation. If you look at some of the poll questions from the so-called cons, some of them anyway, it is obvious to the reader that they load the question in such a way as to guide the answer. Which to me, means they don't have the balls to face the truth and let the chips fall where they may. They have to somehow control someone elses reactions.

I'm glad an objective opinion has stepped up to call a spade a spade. And not a heart, diamond or a club. We got too many people that devote so much time to their facade, I wonder if they even know who they are? It's a shame. Because there are many conservatives here that are smart, intuitive, intelligent and don't decide important issues based on emotion. I just happen to disagree with their political position. But you can see by reading their posts, they deserve respect.

The others, well, they get what they give. My problem is having too much fun letting them have it. Or just feeding their own words back with a lot of crow on the side. And crow is not that appetizing. I know, I have to eat some myself. When it gets to that point, I just admit the mistake, take my beating like a man, have a plate of black bird, then move on. Some people around here, act like admitting fault is tantamount to death! Those are the ones I have fun with the most. But that's my problem.

Great thread!
 
Pull My Finger said:
I had thought that since 9/11 this divide would have been lessened. It seems deeper, even hateful.

It almost seems like 'political racism'.

What is your take?
Click to expand...

It's because we Americans have a "leader" who has built his presidency on being as divisive as possible and smearing his political opponents.
 
There are some people, though not many, that can actually objectively look at as many sides of an issue as possible before making judgement. Though for every one of those people, there are a disproportionate amount of people who instantly have thier minds made up just based on pre-existing political bias. How you can go through life only looking at the same side of every issue is beyond me.
 
People have varying degrees with which they attach themselves to a group. When that group is identified according to ideology, those with the strongest sense of group identification become the fiercest defenders of that ideology -- even if it is one that they do not understand . THey are followers, and instead of building a political ideology from the bottom up -- by thinking about basic values and forming opinions based uopn those values -- they simply decide on the opinions and then rationalize away.

It's just politics played as if it were a team sport.
 
Originally Posted by Johnson
How you can go through life only looking at the same side of every issue is beyond me.
Click to expand...
That's an easy one. It's the same reason people keep getting into abusive relationships............ it's FAMILIAR GROUND!
 
well ok, no reason to yell though ;)

but still, it's kind of silly to always look at one the same side of every issue all the time, then use words like "ignorance" to describe people that don't always see the same side, which I see happen all the time.
 
Originally posted by Johnson:
well ok, no reason to yell though

but still, it's kind of silly to always look at one the same side of every issue all the time, then use words like "ignorance" to describe people that don't always see the same side, which I see happen all the time.
Click to expand...
Change is a very scary thing for some. So they look at things with a pre-disposition. It's like a crutch. It's safe. They have some idea of the outcome. Trouble is, when it doesn't turn out like they thought, they spin!
 
Pull My Finger said:
No sarcasm intended...

I don't know if I'm Lib or Con, Rep or Democrat. Nor do I care.
(though I"m learning I am probably considered extreme left, and liberal?)
I am Canadian, and I have voted for both the Liberals & PC depending on the issues.

In my short time here, I am surprised at the importance placed on these labels. (I do understand this is a political debate forum)

While I have seen the so-called 'libs' throw a jab or two at the so-called 'cons', it is overwhelmingly the so-called 'cons' who routinely attack someone's views as being 'left' or 'lib' as if they have the plague.

I had thought that since 9/11 this divide would have been lessened. It seems deeper, even hateful.

It almost seems like 'political racism'.

What is your take?

Peace
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct, and as an American it's something I'm ashamed to see in my fellow citizens.

There are far too many people who vote a straight ticket - all republican or all democrat. They think that if republican endorses it, it's right and correct, or vice versa. They don't take the time to actually think about these issues themselves (god forbid they actually do that); they just put their entire faith and trust in the "republicans" or the "democrats". It is, IMO, a distasteful habit that requires people to stay ignorant in order to achieve. It's extremely sad and damaging to the country as a whole.
 
Billo
If you look at some of the poll questions from the so-called cons, some of them anyway, it is obvious to the reader that they load the question in such a way as to guide the answer.
Click to expand...
It is a little amusing when it doesn't work...
Billo
Because there are many conservatives here that are smart, intuitive, intelligent and don't decide important issues based on emotion. I just happen to disagree with their political position. But you can see by reading their posts, they deserve respect.
Click to expand...
Definitely. 'Props' to those...
Billo
I know, I have to eat some myself. When it gets to that point, I just admit the mistake, take my beating like a man, have a plate of black bird, then move on. Some people around here, act like admitting fault is tantamount to death!
Click to expand...
Lol, I got fed a big plate myself, from TOT. Nice. I agree though, take your lumps. I think it takes a bigger person to admit they are wrong, and adjust, than to just 'stay the course'... heh heh
Billo
Those are the ones I have fun with the most. But that's my problem.
Click to expand...
Problem? I though it was part of your charm. :)
Kandahar
It's because we Americans have a "leader" who has built his presidency on being as divisive as possible and smearing his political opponents.
Click to expand...
Don't even get me started on that guy... Very true though, IMO. I finally saw on the news that someone is calling for his impeachment. Hope it gets some legs...
Gardener
People have varying degrees with which they attach themselves to a group. When that group is identified according to ideology, those with the strongest sense of group identification become the fiercest defenders of that ideology -- even if it is one that they do not understand . THey are followers,
Click to expand...
I have done some (minimal) research on crowd/group mentality, and how it differs vastly from individual mentality. Fascinating subject. Nice assesment.
Johnson
but still, it's kind of silly to always look at one the same side of every issue all the time, then use words like "ignorance" to describe people that don't always see the same side, which I see happen all the time.
Click to expand...
Lol, kind of an ignorant use of the word 'ignorant'...
rivrrat
You are absolutely correct, and as an American it's something I'm ashamed to see in my fellow citizens...
It's extremely sad and damaging to the country as a whole.
Click to expand...
Bah, no shame... IMO, the gov't & media are to blame for this disturbing trend (as kandahar has alluded to). The same is happening in Canada, though to a lesser degree.
It is no doubt damaging, and I too find it very, very sad.
It sounds idealistic, I know, but we are all American/Canadian, and ultimately HUMAN.

Can't we all just get along...:roll: :mrgreen: :doh

Peace
 
A couple of observations. No one who identifies themselves as a 'conservative' has commented on this thread yet. Also, though everyone has stated how intelligent the OP is and how divisive the country is, will anyone step up and do something to assist in being less divisive? A good start might be to not use the 'lib' or 'con' labels when arguing your position or overgeneralizing someone else's. Just some food for thought.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
A couple of observations. No one who identifies themselves as a 'conservative' has commented on this thread yet. Also, though everyone has stated how intelligent the OP is and how divisive the country is, will anyone step up and do something to assist in being less divisive? A good start might be to not use the 'lib' or 'con' labels when arguing your position or overgeneralizing someone else's. Just some food for thought.
Click to expand...
'OP'?

In my debates, I have never refered to anyone as 'con' or 'lib'. I'm just making an observation about what I have seen on the threads.

I was hoping the whole point of this thread would be to come to terms with this division. We can't do it without using the terms.

Is the thread bordering on 'out of line'?

The fact that so-called 'cons' aren't responding yet is troubling to me. I figured more so-called 'libs' and independants would respond, but I was hoping to see debate on 'why' these labels are so important to everyone, as I find the so-called 'cons' to be the first to criticize for being a so-called 'lib'.

I just want to know why. Let's put the cards on the table why don't we?

Peace
 
Pull My Finger said:
'OP'?

In my debates, I have never refered to anyone as 'con' or 'lib'. I'm just making an observation about what I have seen on the threads.

I was hoping the whole point of this thread would be to come to terms with this division. We can't do it without using the terms.

Is the thread bordering on 'out of line'?

The fact that so-called 'cons' aren't responding yet is troubling to me. I figured more so-called 'libs' and independants would respond, but I was hoping to see debate on 'why' these labels are so important to everyone, as I find the so-called 'cons' to be the first to criticize for being a so-called 'lib'.

I just want to know why. Let's put the cards on the table why don't we?

Peace
Click to expand...

For some reason, you and I often seem to end up in misunderstandings. I was complimenting your OP (Original Post) of the thread. I have often said similar things, here at DP. I don't think this thread is out of line, at all. In fact, I'd like to see lots of responses from people taking it seriously. I fear that most, however, are happy in their partisanship.

Regardless, good thread, Pull My Finger.
 
CaptainCourtesy said:
For some reason, you and I often seem to end up in misunderstandings. I was complimenting your OP (Original Post) of the thread. I have often said similar things, here at DP. I don't think this thread is out of line, at all. In fact, I'd like to see lots of responses from people taking it seriously. I fear that most, however, are happy in their partisanship.

Regardless, good thread, Pull My Finger.
Click to expand...
Lol, I wasn't insulted. I think so much gets lost in translation without tone of voice, body language, and the like. (maybe I need to learn how to communicate a little better on the threads.) I acknowledge you indeed seem fair. Given the possibility of what this thread could turn into, I thought it could be borderline...

I too hope that this doesn't just turn into a 'con' bashing thread, or end up in the basement. My fingers are crossed.

Maybe that would have been a better way ask the question: Why is your partisanship so important to you?
or Does partisanship hurt politics?

Anyhow, thanks.

Peace
 
Mostly it's a game they play. In reality there is no real difference between the Republicans and the Democrats, they're all big government socialists. They are equally corrupt, equally treasonous, equally partisan, etc. So long as they can convince people that the other side is so much worse then their side, the status quo will remain. This is why labels become important because you have to be able to easily categorize people and throw out the talking points against that side without much thought. The Republicans say liberals this and liberals that and they are so bad because of X. Democrats say conservatives this and conservatives that and they are so bad because of Y. It's the same exact thing, but the label makes it easy to apply X or Y depending on your side. So the other side becomes so much worse than your side because of X or because of Y; despite the short comings on your chosen party the other is so worse that they must be defeated at all costs and we must vote for the lesser of two evils.

The labels makes it easy to discard thought, we don't have to think about it anymore because of X or Y, and the labels make it easy to apply X or Y to the whole of a group. In the end, not so much difference between the two, they don't work for the liberty of We the People, but rather for the money in their pocket. Until we can set the labels aside, understand this isn't some Republican vs Democrat thing but rather We the People vs the Government sort of thing, we will be stuck with what we have. Ever expanding government, non-accountable politicians, and partisan rhetoric enough to make all our ears bleed. Yay for the status quo.
 
hmmm.

I agree with much of what you say - but the labels of con and lib cut to the chase - so they are used.

This country is devisive. Don't believe guys like Kandahar though on the reasons. Men like him are very much a part of this divisive nature. Things were just as bad in the 90's when the other side had control.

The reason for it has nothing to do with who is currently in office. It is because we abandoned the republic and have a huge federal government that now has its hand in everything. We are a nation of 300 million vastly different people wearing the same sweater labelled as one size fits all. The skinny guys are lashing out at the fat guys and the fat guys are fighting back. Then you got the medium sized guys that like how it is now and don't understand why everybody is so bitter.

If you look even further to the right - you see guys like me refusing to wear the sweater at all.
 
jallman said:
Does that make you the "Naked Conservative"?
Click to expand...

Yes - but only from the waste up.

Surprisingly, governments still allows some choice. I went with the whitey tighteys. :mrgreen:
 
ARealConservative said:
Yes - but only from the waste up.

Surprisingly, governments still allows some choice. I went with the whitey tighteys. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Shhh....you are going make PTSDKid and aquapub horny. Of course, watching them fight over you might be funny...I haven't seen a bitch fight in ages.
 
ARealConservative said:
Yes - but only from the waste up.

Surprisingly, governments still allows some choice. I went with the whitey tighteys. :mrgreen:
Click to expand...

Yes, but that right is under review in a commitee right now. If its determined that tightey whiteys cause a higher risk testicular cancer, you may be out of luck....
 
WI Crippler said:
Yes, but that right is under review in a commitee right now. If its determined that tightey whiteys cause a higher risk testicular cancer, you may be out of luck....
Click to expand...

been there and done that.

So it was the tighteys all along you say?
 
jallman said:
Shhh....you are going make PTSDKid and aquapub horny.
Click to expand...

A horny PTSDKid?? Lets hope he doesn't start humping on a liberal female.....

Of course, by his own admission, he would be rejected because he is not a transgendered male.
 
WI Crippler said:
Thats the word on the street ;) I smell a class action lawsuit against fruit of the loom.....
Click to expand...

doh!

All these years I was blaming my foolish use of nuclear rods as glow in the dark sex toys. good to know those guys are safe to use again.
 
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