Libertarians: which do you identify with more, the Left or Right?

[Gabriel]

Ya because there's absolutely no such thing as plain site in this country. There is absolutely no such thing as the war on drugs. And cops certainly don't have the right to shoot you or beat you if you resist their unjustified infringement on your right of self ownership, or restrain you, or hold you in a cell for bail (if they grant you bail) etc..

:roll:

You guys should be jumping excited about "Top Secret America" like popcorn on a hot plate.

Top Secret America | washingtonpost.com

 

[Agent Ferris]

You guys should be jumping excited about "Top Secret America" like popcorn on a hot plate.

Top Secret America | washingtonpost.com

Meh there are much more visible everyday violations of the rights of this individual that happen daily to be bothered with the nefarious "they". NIMBY.

 

[Gabriel]

Meh there are much more visible everyday violations of the rights of this individual that happen daily to be bothered with the nefarious "they". NIMBY.

lol.. Now your not scared of the government. ****ing hilarious.

 

[lizzie]

I wear as a badge of honor.

I rather dig my petulant banner myself. Without my nitpicky and perfectionist ways, I wouldn't get so much done.:mrgreen:

 

[Agent Ferris]

lol.. Now your not scared of the government. ****ing hilarious.

Yes but not because the men in the black helicopters are going to come and get me, but because the men in blue uniforms with guns and badges can bust down my door and kill and/or beat me if I resist their unjustifiable infringement into my individual sovereignty. Now I understand that as a statist that you believe that oppression and tyranny is justified when carried out by the government, I on the other hand have a little thing called respect for the liberty of the individual.

 

[Burning Giraffe]

I really hate the left-right spectrum, but if I had to choose for America's current political climate, probably the right. Arguments over the overall size of government take up a much bigger place than social issues in politics today.

I think of politics as a North/South rather than Right/Left. North being Libertarian, South being Authoritarian. I don't really care whether the nation is swinging right or left, so long as they are moving North. Both Democrats and Republicans love Government, it would seem. Republicans think that Corporations should run the Government and Democrats think the Government should run the Corporations. Both of these options are terrible.

 

[Goshin]

There's a one-line sentence often used to sum up core libertarian philosophy, and it goes something like this:

The chief (or only) concern of government is to prevent or punish, the initiation of force or fraud against an innocent victim.

Libertarianism is a spectrum, and there are many who would add some additional points to that, but that is the fundamental principle. One can use force in self-defense. One cannot initiate force or fraud legitimately. Meaning the government's purpose is to prevent or punish anyone for initiating force or fraud upon you when you were doing them no harm, whether that initiator was an individual citizen, a group of citizens, an employer or client, a corporation or union, a crime syndicate or a foreign nation's army attempting to invade.

It is assumed that the government has NO DUTY to prevent you from SELF-INFLICTED harm, done either through deliberate means (suicide, drugs), ignorance or poor judgement, unless the harm you suffered was through another's use of fraud (ie they told you this drug was safe and it isn't).

Help any?

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

They are caricatures. Yes. Sad. I know.


Sadly Libertarians are like forum posters.
They all fit into a nice formula which is aware of all the possibilities. For every Squirt, there is a Missionary, for every Atlas there is an Android. For every Ethereal there is a donsutherland1. This is not necessarily a bad thing. But after a while you start realizing that these people are nothing more that caricatures. Libertarian seems to be the flavor of the moment and all the cool kids want to try it.

And for every Redress or Zyphlin there's a Joe Steel or Partisan. Every ideology is like that. There are idiots and geniuses in every single political movement. The fact is, we "teenagers" as you call us are really no different than anyone else, except that we'd like to pay a little less taxes and have a few less excuses for the cops to come banging down our doors.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

I think of politics as a North/South rather than Right/Left. North being Libertarian, South being Authoritarian. I don't really care whether the nation is swinging right or left, so long as they are moving North. Both Democrats and Republicans love Government, it would seem. Republicans think that Corporations should run the Government and Democrats think the Government should run the Corporations. Both of these options are terrible.

Both parties are largely the same. I meant average people, like forum posters.

 

[Ikari]

And for every Redress or Zyphlin there's a Joe Steel or Partisan. Every ideology is like that. There are idiots and geniuses in every single political movement. The fact is, we "teenagers" as you call us are really no different than anyone else, except that we'd like to pay a little less taxes and have a few less excuses for the cops to come banging down our doors.

Hey hey hey, what is this? A rational argument! You know the irrational libertarian haters on this thread can't comprehend rational arguments...or at the very least seem willing to completely ignore them. You'll make no headway against the usual suspects, they just want to poke fun and try to make themselves feel better by picking on other people. If that's what they have to do to feel good about them, well it's pretty sad and I feel sorry for them; but it's what it is.

 

[Gabriel]

And for every Redress or Zyphlin there's a Joe Steel or Partisan. Every ideology is like that. There are idiots and geniuses in every single political movement. The fact is, we "teenagers" as you call us are really no different than anyone else, except that we'd like to pay a little less taxes and have a few less excuses for the cops to come banging down our doors.

Fiscally libertarianism is on empty. Socially they have been complacent with the republican party. Libertarian fiscal policy is dead in the water and you can thank george bush..

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Obviously the right.

Socialism is the epitome of collectivist evil.

The views on the right include:

Personal responsibility. The Left is allergic to this notion.

Self-reliance. The Left views the self as the prefix to -ish.

Living babies. The Left views dead babies as a profit center and experimental biological matter.

Charity. The Left construes government confiscation of private wealth a form of charity.

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

Fiscally libertarianism is on empty. Socially they have been complacent with the republican party. Libertarian fiscal policy is dead in the water and you can thank george bush..

Hmmm....so you're saying the libertarian position of Constitutionally controlled spending and taxes balanced to fit the expenditures under the Constitution is dead because a socialist president who couldn't pass up the chane to sign bills advancing unconstitutional and excessive spending?

That make a lot of sense to you?

I would say the Tea Party demands for less spending, smaller government, and less taxes belies your claim that "libertarian" fiscal policy is dead in the water.

What do you call it when the socialists with huge majorities in both Houses of Congress have to resort to questionable parliamentarian gimmicks, bribed votes, and turn-coat RINO's to pass their agenda against the express will of a majority of the population of the country?

 

[Scarecrow Akhbar]

You'll make no headway against the usual suspects, they just want to poke fun and try to make themselves feel better by picking on other people. If that's what they have to do to feel good about them, well it's pretty sad and I feel sorry for them; but it's what it is.

No.

They actually believe the logically flawed arguments they present irrefutable. They believe this so thoroughly that they don't waste any effort actually thinking about the refutations that smash their positions to moondust.

 

[Ikari]

No.

They actually believe the logically flawed arguments they present irrefutable. They believe this so thoroughly that they don't waste any effort actually thinking about the refutations that smash their positions to moondust.

It's particularly annoying when people do this in the personal sphere. When people just decide they're going to hate a group and then use every opportunity to go against them and make snide comments. Like the "Example A", "Example B" dumbass crap. What that's really an example of is the LaTex anti-libertarian. And if people have had any interaction with hardcore LaTex users, you'll know what that means. Haughty, stuck up jerks who think they're better than everyone else, look down their nose at everyone, and think they're the greatest thing since sliced bread. Top hat and monocle wearing fufu folk.

 

[DrunkenAsparagus]

Fiscally libertarianism is on empty. Socially they have been complacent with the republican party. Libertarian fiscal policy is dead in the water and you can thank george bush..

What libertarian fiscal policy? How is one of the biggest increases in military and non-military spending in US history Libertarian?

 

[Black_Zawisza]

What libertarian fiscal policy? How is one of the biggest increases in military and non-military spending in US history Libertarian?

You clueless moron, isn't it obvious? Libertarians are fiscally conservative. And Bush MUST have been a fiscal conservative, 'cause he had an R next to his name, right? :roll:

 

[Mensch]

Sorry if this ticks some of you off, but I intentionally left out a "Moderate" option in the poll. I'd rather not have anybody sitting on the fence.

If you're having trouble, think about this: when someone posts a thread with a title claiming the entire Left or Right is bigoted, delusional, etc, does your reaction change depending on which side is being targeted?

You should really research the Nolan Chart.

 

[Rightwingnutjob]

Here is my view. I'd say I'm more right than left but you tell me.
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Everyone should be able to do whatever the hell they want as long as it doesn't infringe on another's rights to life, liberty, or property (as defined by John Locke).

You want to do heroine? Go for it. Infringe on the above rights while on heroine, and pay teh consequences.

You want to sell yourself out for cheap pleasures? Go for it, your respect (or lack of it) for yourself is not my buisiness.

You want to marry somone of the same sex? Wouldn't be my cup of tea, but by all means go for it.

You want to give away all of your money to X charity? Good for you, hope you can make it back.

Do whatever you want but do NOT infring on my or anyone elses rights to life, liberty, and property.

 

[Black_Zawisza]

You should really research the Nolan Chart.

I'm a libertarian. And yet, for some reason, I continue to refer to myself as a right-winger.

All this, even though I'm not ignorant of the Nolan Chart. Thanks for the the assumption that I am, though.

 

[Psychoclown]

I probably identify more with the right for two reasons. First, the Republican Party has traditionally had a libertarian wing to it. And even though Republicans have been just as big a supporter of big government as the Democrats, they at least have the decency to give me a reach around every campaign season by spouting some libertarian-esque rhetoric (which they usually have no intention of following) while they screw me from behind.

Secondly, the areas where libertarianism overlaps with the ring wing are more important to me than the areas where libertarianism and the left wing overlap. I believe enacting libertarian based policies on social issues would be good for the nation, but it would little affect on my personal everyday life. Even if pot and prostitution were legal, I'm not going to rent a hooker and get stoned. Repealing anti-obscenity laws won't cause me to run out and buy Max Hardcore's latest piece of filth. Protecting the freedom of expression through flag burning won't mean that I'm going to torch old glory every Sunday. But reducing the national debt, decreasing government expenditures (and hopefully in long run reducing my taxes) will affect me personally.

 

[lizzie]

But reducing the national debt, decreasing government expenditures (and hopefully in long run reducing my taxes) will affect me personally.

Exactly. I found that going from Republican to Libertarianism was an easy transition. I feel fairly assured that personal social liberties will continue to relax legislatively (ie abortion, gay rights, at least marijuana legalization etc) naturally with time. What I don't expect will be accomplished without a good fight is limiting spending, and this is what will determine our ability to sustain ourselves as a society and a nation.

 

[Harshaw]

As a libertarian, I'm anti-statist. So that, by definition, is going to put more more at odds with the left than the current right.

 

[Ikari]

As a libertarian, I'm anti-statist. So that, by definition, is going to put more more at odds with the left than the current right.

Sadly enough, in our current state, I think that puts you at odds with both.

 

[Harshaw]

Sadly enough, in our current state, I think that puts you at odds with both.

I did say "more at odds," not at odds with only one. But there isn't a 1:1 equivalence. The left is absolutely more comfortable with statist "solutions."