Libertarian Issues-Libertarians only please vote

[Redress]

Back many months ago, I started a thread on this, and since we have a bunch of new Libertarian issues, I thought I would revisit it. The basis of the original poll was numerous comments about big "L" Libertarians and little "l" libertarians. Many libertarians here stated they did not align very well with the beliefs of the Libertarian party. So I pulled a series of issues from the Libertarian party website(Issues | Libertarian Party) and asked which of those issues do you agree with. Same deal this time, same issues, which do you personally as a Libertarian or libertarian agree with. If in doubt, please refer to the link above to see the detailed position of the Libertarian party.

Please, only Libertarians(big or small "L") vote in this poll.

Link to original thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/57386-libertarian-issues.html

Please be patient as I add poll options...I type slow.

 

[VanceMack]

If you go with an all or nothing approach, it is the kind of political idea that ensures the Libertarians will ALWAYS have zero legislative presence.

Encourage capitalism with minimal government intervention and regulation.

End federal laws involving drug prohibition. Enforce border laws regarding illegal drugs. Allow states to dictate local and state law regarding drug use.

Avoid interventionism in foreign affairs where possible, while utilizing diplomatic involvement with regard to financial affairs and military options with regard to national security.

End foreign aid-Im actually very cool with that one.

End gun bans-Same here. maintain prohibitions on minor and felony firearm ownership and require registration for automatic weapon ownership (if the 'militia' is a justification for military weapon ownership than even the unorganized militia as defined in the US Code ought to be 'ready'). I think things that go 'boom' like RPGs can still be owned if stored in a state armory.

Deregulate healthcare-Sure...why not. Allow for interstate competition of insurance company and policy.

Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens(work for amnesty)-Why? Enforce the law of the land. Libertarian ideals dont require abandonement of the rule of law. We have an immigration policy. It should be followed and enforced.

End federal funding and involvement in 'welfare' programs. Pay off the federal debt. Reduce federal taxes. Allow individual states and local governments to partner with private resources to provide for their citizens social needs.

Allow opting out of Social Security-I would say allow new employees entering the workforce to opt out with the caveate they forfeit reciept of any and all state provided social services. Allow retiring senior citizens to opt for a one time buyout of their SS benefits which would require forfeiture of all other social services.

 

[TurtleDude]

I was hard core libertarian most of my life. Ran Ed Clark's campaign at yale in 80. However there are a few reasons why I don't totally agree with the "party". I see foreign intervention as a necessary prophylactic in some cases. I see funding some foreign governments as a necessary line of defense. And I have issues with some of the purists in the libertarian party who whine about stuff like making taxi cabs have business licenses or people having medical boards in order to practice medicine. However I am clearly in the libertarian wing of the GOP and being agnostic, I tire of the social fascism of the bible thumpers.

 

[Redress]

I was hard core libertarian most of my life. Ran Ed Clark's campaign at yale in 80. However there are a few reasons why I don't totally agree with the "party". I see foreign intervention as a necessary prophylactic in some cases. I see funding some foreign governments as a necessary line of defense. And I have issues with some of the purists in the libertarian party who whine about stuff like making taxi cabs have business licenses or people having medical boards in order to practice medicine. However I am clearly in the libertarian wing of the GOP and being agnostic, I tire of the social fascism of the bible thumpers.

Thank you for your answer. Can I get you to expand on what you see as the differences between a Libertarian, a Republican, and a Libertarian Republican?

Edit: You, the forum did not eat this post!

 

[TurtleDude]

Thank you for your answer. Can I get you to expand on what you see as the differences between a Libertarian, a Republican, and a Libertarian Republican?

Edit: You, the forum did not eat this post!

I don't think there are definitive answers but I will try to give it my best shot

A Libertarian is a member of the Libertarian Party. In some states that is a voting designation like GOP or Dems meaning you can vote for the Libertarian candidates in a primary (Cincinnati's 1st District had two libertarians running for the congressional nomination) a Republican is someone who belongs to the party (GOP) or normally votes that way or is registered for Primaries. A Libertarian Republican is someone who supports the candidates in general elections and can vote for GOP primary candidates. a libertarian is not necessarily a member of the party. In other words a Libertarian can be a party member while a libertarian is more a philosopy

The GOP has several wings-social conservatives, economic freedom advocates, libertarians etc (1 and 2 can have the same people, 1 and 3 is tougher)

 

[Redress]

I don't think there are definitive answers but I will try to give it my best shot

A Libertarian is a member of the Libertarian Party. In some states that is a voting designation like GOP or Dems meaning you can vote for the Libertarian candidates in a primary (Cincinnati's 1st District had two libertarians running for the congressional nomination) a Republican is someone who belongs to the party (GOP) or normally votes that way or is registered for Primaries. A Libertarian Republican is someone who supports the candidates in general elections and can vote for GOP primary candidates. a libertarian is not necessarily a member of the party. In other words a Libertarian can be a party member while a libertarian is more a philosopy

The GOP has several wings-social conservatives, economic freedom advocates, libertarians etc (1 and 2 can have the same people, 1 and 3 is tougher)

I meant more in terms of where the differences on the issues between the three. I realize that there are no definitive answers, and the question will probably get a different answer from each person answering. I am interested in your opinion.

 

[Gipper]

I voted for all of them except for ending welfare and amnesty. While an enemy of the police state, libertarianism still doesn't support flaunting the law, which illegal immigration does. Also, some basement level of welfare is necessary. How much exactly is up for debate, but you can't just totally get rid of it and expect Darwinism to mop up the side.

I'm very strong at ending almost all subsidies that exist now and privatizing Social Security. I get really pissed when the government thinks they can spend my money better than I can. Give me my paycheck, and I can invest it on my own. Earn a prettier penny than you too, all while not giving into the slush fund you call Social Security.

 

[TurtleDude]

I meant more in terms of where the differences on the issues between the three. I realize that there are no definitive answers, and the question will probably get a different answer from each person answering. I am interested in your opinion.

sorry about the slow response, the board keeps locking up tonight and I get a Too busy message

some republicans don't believe in Freedom when it comes to personal issues. Abortion, sodomy, drug use, gay marriage. LIbertarian Republicans generally are against the war on drugs, but some (and this includes libertarians who don't vote GOP) Libertarians are Pro Life. its one of the few issues where there is a genuine split.

THe biggest differences in the GOP are on

1) war on drugs
2) foreign interventionist policies

all three groups generally oppose escalating income tax rates, pro plaintiff judges, pro union policies, --ie income redistributionist policies

another interesting split is on law enforcement. many republicans are very strong supporters of the police. some of the libertarian republicans are-depending on the issue or not-depending on the issue (ie few have use for crackdowns on victimless crimes)

 

[lizzie]

Although I didn't vote for ending drug prohibition, I do support legalizing "some" drugs, just not sure that all of them should be legalized.

 

[Psychoclown]

I voted for everything but amnesty and ending welfare, but even in the things I voted for I'm not necessarily in favor of taking it to the extreme the Libertarian Paty would.

Lassiez Faire Capitalism: Yes, I believe the free market is generally best left untampered with. Government regulation often has unintended consequences. Consequences that are often used as justification for further regulation. That said, certain regulations are needed.

I'm a strong supporter of anti-trust laws, as the free market depends upon robust competition to work at an optimal level and monopolies are a antithesis of competition. I'm for reasonable safety standards since many defects or unsafe issues are easily concealed from the consumer, making it impossible for them to make an informed choice.

I recogonize that pollution has a cost to all of us (aka society, a word so many libertarians seem to hate) and it is not accounted for in the price a company charges. Its called an externality cost and government is well suited to account for that cost through regulations. I recognize the market can fail - imagine the disaster that private roads would be. And government again is the ideal body to step in fill the gap left by those failures.

So while I'm for laissez faire capitalism in general, I'm not opposed to any and all government involvement in the free market.

End Drug Prohibition: Definitely favor the immediate legalization of pot. I've yet to hear an intelligent reason why it should be illegal, but alcohol and tobbacco should be legal. Harder drugs are a little harder for me to get a firm position on. Still most of the research shows that decriminalization and/or legalization has little impact on user rates and it would remove a massive source of revenue from various criminal cartels, while saving us a fortune in government expenditures.

Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy: I don't favor non-interventionism because of some principled opposition to force or initiation of force. When it comes to foreign policy, I fall firmly in the realist camp. America should promote and pursure its interests actively. I happen to believe that our interests are often best served by a non-interventionist approach. That said, certain dire circumstance could warrant intervention (a nuclear Iran for instance) or even pre-emption.

Ending Foreign Aid: Usually it ends up in the pockets of dictators anyway. I know its a tiny portion of the budget, but hey, every million helps and we need to start trimming the budget somewhere. I'm not opposed to humanitarian aid for disaster victims.

End Gun Bans: The right to bear arms is as essential, if not moreso, as the right to free speech. Gun bans don't keep guns out of the hands of criminals, since they are by definition people who have qualms about breaking the law.

Deregulate Health Care: Some tort reform would be nice also.

Amnesty: No. I'd be willing to accept a pathway to citizenship, under certain circumstances, if it came along with truly effective measures to get control of our borders. America is a soveriegn nation and it has every right to control its borders. Our economy cannot handle an unlimited influx of unskilled laborers (which is what most illegal immigrants are). Furthermore, there are legitimate security concerns as well. Open borders a pipe dream that will never happen.

End Welfare: I'm not opposed to offering some government assistance to the truly disabled. History has shown that private charity alone is not sufficient. I'm also not opposed to creating a tempory program designed to help people who have fallen on hard times get back on their feet. I'm strongly opposed to allowing able bodied individuals become long term dependents of the state.

Opting out of Social Security: Please! I want out before this giant pyramid scheme comes crashing down and my generation is the one left holding the bill.

 

[Redress]

Thank you all for your answers so far, and keep them coming. Some great posts explaining your positions, I really appreciate it.

 

[alms]

I'm an independent who considers himself a decentralist or anti-Federalist, so I suppose my views are similar enough with libertarianism to warrant a response.

Laissez Faire capitalism - It depends on how one defines laissez-faire capitalism. Some take it to mean anarchocapitalism, which is the complete absence of government intervention in the economy. If that is the definition being used, then I do not support laissez-faire capitalism, as there would be no laws against fraud and coercion.

If, however, laissez-faire capitalism is synonymous with Adam Smith's conception of the invisible hand as a mechanism for the efficient allocation of resources, then I absolutely support laissez-faire capitalism. But in certain cases where the market fails to adequately provide for a social necessity, I believe the government can step in and intervene.

End drug prohibition - I absolutely support the end of Federal drug prohibition.

avoid interventionism in foreign policy - I believe in a flexible and adaptive foreign policy.

End foreign aid - Absolutely. That money is better spent at home.

End gun bans - Yes. They don't serve any purpose.

Deregulate healthcare - Yes, and the health insurance industry. Onerous regulation is driving up the cost of healthcare and health insurance.

Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens(work for amnesty) - I wouldn't be adverse to this, but I think we should have tight control of our borders before we start worrying about accommodating illegal immigrants.

End welfare - On the Federal level, yes. Slowly phasing out these programs and placing the onus back on states is the best policy.

Allow opting out of Social Security - Yes. For most young people, it will not be there when they retire, which means they are being forced to pay into something that has no identifiable benefit to them. I think that is awful and wrong.

 

[Harry Guerrilla]

Laissez Faire capitalism- It's not unregulated capitalism.
It's an economic system free from unreasonable intervention.

End drug prohibition- Yep, it doesn't work.

Avoid interventionism in foreign affairs- We have more important things to do here.
We shouldn't be subsidizing the rest of the world with our military either.

End foreign aid- A lot of it ends up in few hands, it doesn't encourage people to pull themselves up either.

End gun bans- Yep. You can't be free, if you can't defend yourself.

Deregulate healthcare- Federal involvement in medical care is the reason for the price increases.

Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens(work for amnesty)- I'm odd about this.
I don't want tougher immigration or border security.
I want it to stay more or less how it is, with less social welfare to discourage loafers.
I like foreigners who want to live here, they usually have a better work ethic than our natives.

End welfare- Maybe on a state or county level if at all.
I prefer the old school family/community welfare system.

Allow opting out of Social Security- Definitely want it gone.
Paying people because they hit an arbitrary age limit is ridiculous.
If you didn't plan financially ahead of time, tough ****.

 

[Zyphlin]

Can I just put a ditto with Psychoclown

 

[Agent Ferris]

Back many months ago, I started a thread on this, and since we have a bunch of new Libertarian issues, I thought I would revisit it. The basis of the original poll was numerous comments about big "L" Libertarians and little "l" libertarians. Many libertarians here stated they did not align very well with the beliefs of the Libertarian party. So I pulled a series of issues from the Libertarian party website(Issues | Libertarian Party) and asked which of those issues do you agree with. Same deal this time, same issues, which do you personally as a Libertarian or libertarian agree with. If in doubt, please refer to the link above to see the detailed position of the Libertarian party.

Please, only Libertarians(big or small "L") vote in this poll.

Link to original thread: http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/57386-libertarian-issues.html

Please be patient as I add poll options...I type slow.

I support a few principles which will pretty much run the gauntlet of the entire Libertarian platform, I support individual sovereignty (also known as the right of self ownership), the non-aggression principle, and the homestead principle.

 

[lizzie]

Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens(work for amnesty)- I'm odd about this.
I don't want tougher immigration or border security.
I want it to stay more or less how it is, with less social welfare to discourage loafers.
I like foreigners who want to live here, they usually have a better work ethic than our natives.

That's a great point, and another issue I am personally ambivalent about. On the one hand, if we keep bringing in more immigrants, we could start stressing the resources available, mostly due to our already HUGE social programs in place. If, however, we don't make welfare-type incentives an attractant to immigrants, maybe it would be okay. The problem is that we already have all those programs in place, and that won't change anytime soon.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Redress.


Your poll is a bit too black and white for me......



Laissez Faire capitalism


Complete Laissez Faire capitalism? probably not, but very damn close. Furthermore, I would suggest that we could not go from what we have today to Laissez Faire capitalism with the swipe of a pen, It would be far to disruptive. See Russia.


Anyway, I think we need to move towards Laissez Faire capitalism as much as we possibly can. "let it be" capitalism is what built this great nation.





End drug prohibition



Absolutley. Also end all federal and state funding for drug rehabilitation programs.



avoid interventionism in foreign polic


Whenever possible. I think most everyone agrees with this. far to vague :shrug:



For example I was for the Iraqi and Afghaistan invasions due to the geopolitical embezzelment scheme and mini cold war created by the UN, and for what the taliban was doing in hiding a group waging war on the US.




End foreign aid
End gun bans
Deregulate healthcare


Yes.


Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens(work for amnesty)


No. implement a fair policy that rewards law abiders, not law breakers.




End welfare


Yes, however, we must create a climate where people would be donating to those truly in need. Not those in need of a 2nd plasma tv and a new iphone.




Allow opting out of Social Security


Absolutley.

 

[Tucker Case]

I'm a libertarian-leaning anti-federalist.

The poll questions look at everything at a federal-level only, though, so it doesn't adequately apply to my ideological views.


For example, I'm in favor of ending federal drug prohibition, but if Wyoming or Texas wanted to continue a state-wide prohibition, that is their choice.

My views of liberty include freedom to vote in rights-limiting legislation democratically so long as it remains localized.

However, in my state, I'd lean heavily libertarian.

 

[jr602az]

End our borders and drug laws because we are spending money against nature.

 

[Ikari]

I took everything but Laissez Faire capitalism, Deregulate healthcare, and End welfare.

For capitalism, I believe in free market capitalism. In that the market is open and people may fairly enter it; succeed or fail by their own power. Laissez-faire does not do that, in fact it is one of the most closed of all systems (next to corporate capitalism, which is what we currently operate under). This is because monopoly and oligopoly quickly rise within the market place stiffing competition and closing off the market. Some amount of government regulation is necessary to ensure the free market remains free. Thus small amount of government is needed in the capitalist model.

Welfare, to be honest it's a difficult choice. However, complete private donations do not aggregate the necessary funds to take care of the needy. I don't like life time welfare sorts of things, but I do like having a system to make sure that people who fall can have at least some form of temporary net that can perhaps see them through the tough times. If the person can get working again, they are more valuable to all of us than if they became homeless and we lost that labor all together.

Healthcare deregulation...I think there is a lot that you can cut out. But if we're talking about certificates and such which prove you've had proper medical training, are insured, etc. well I'm pretty ok with those.

 

[Agent Ferris]

I took everything but Laissez Faire capitalism, Deregulate healthcare, and End welfare.

For capitalism, I believe in free market capitalism. In that the market is open and people may fairly enter it; succeed or fail by their own power. Laissez-faire does not do that, in fact it is one of the most closed of all systems (next to corporate capitalism, which is what we currently operate under). This is because monopoly and oligopoly quickly rise within the market place stiffing competition and closing off the market. Some amount of government regulation is necessary to ensure the free market remains free. Thus small amount of government is needed in the capitalist model.

Name one monopoly that has ever formed without the aid of government.

 

[spud_meister]

Name one monopoly that has ever formed without the aid of government.

De Beers


and.....

 

[Ikari]

Name one monopoly that has ever formed without the aid of government.

In what way? All business is aided in some way by government. Could the government have helped the Rockefellers and others who created big monopolies during the rise of the robber barons? Sure could have. But that doesn't mean that without government intervention in the market that they can't occur. In fact, it could be nothing but the opposite. There are no mechanisms in place to prevent collusion, price setting, unfair business practices, etc. Lasizze-faire can do nothing but push towards monopoly and oligopoly.

 

[Agent Ferris]

De Beers

The founder of De Beer, one Cecil Rhodes WAS government as a member of parliament and was under his companies were under Charter from the British Crown. lol

In fact De Beers is the quintessential example of how the state aids in the creation of monopoly:

Cecil Rhodes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[spud_meister]

The founder of De Beer, one Cecil Rhodes WAS government as a member of parliament and was under his companies were under Charter from the British Crown. lol

In fact De Beers is the quintessential example of how the state aids in the creation of monopoly:

Cecil Rhodes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

he only got into politics after forming de beers, it had no government help in forming, thus providing an example of a monopoly that formed without government help.