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Liberals Trash 'American Sniper'...anyone surprised?

You think we can make peace with Radical Islam?

In the long term, violence won't do anything about any radical movements. Only peace and prosperity turn radicals into regular people. No amount of bombs or killing will remove the radical from the Islam. This isn't even a question of patriotism or politics. This is just truth.
 
I think that healthy cynicism is patriotic. We all have our own interpretations of what it means to be a patriot.

True, it wouldn't surprise me if most presidential assassinations were committed by people who thought they were doing something patriotic.
 
In the long term, violence won't do anything about any radical movements. Only peace and prosperity turn radicals into regular people. No amount of bombs or killing will remove the radical from the Islam. This isn't even a question of patriotism or politics. This is just truth.

While I don't disagree with that, you leave no real option other than to wait for them to evolve. I am not sure this is acceptable.
 
While I don't disagree with that, you leave no real option other than to wait for them to evolve. I am not sure this is acceptable.

It absolutely needn't be a passive process. Helping secular movements take hold in the Middle East, expanding education and human rights, and pulling those countries into the modern era are all things that we can do. Jihadists will disappear once their own societies no longer tolerate them.
 
It absolutely needn't be a passive process. Helping secular movements take hold in the Middle East, expanding education and human rights, and pulling those countries into the modern era are all things that we can do. Jihadists will disappear once their own societies no longer tolerate them.

This will be exceeding difficult as in almost all of these places the governments are a major source of the problem, but I would like to think you're on the right track. I can't help but think modern media will be the downfall of these regimes.
 
I think that healthy cynicism is patriotic. We all have our own interpretations of what it means to be a patriot.

So directing that to the topic... you think it is patriotic to be cynic about the people in our military?
honestly trying to understand you...
 
This will be exceeding difficult as in almost all of these places the governments are a major source of the problem, but I would like to think you're on the right track. I can't help but think modern media will be the downfall of these regimes.

I think it'll definitely play a big part. Culture is becoming more and more global, and when someone can see another country and how the people there live, either on the internet or tv or whatever, they want the parts that are better for themselves. That's a big part of how progressive, secular movements are starting in the Middle East. They don't hate our freedom. They want it for themselves. They want freedom, prosperity, education, all of it. But it doesn't happen overnight. This'll take a generation or two. And violence will only make it take longer.
 
In the long term, violence won't do anything about any radical movements. Only peace and prosperity turn radicals into regular people. No amount of bombs or killing will remove the radical from the Islam. This isn't even a question of patriotism or politics. This is just truth.
this is the politics of the situation though, it doesn't have anything to do with the troops involved in what we end up choosing to do.

It's an obviously complicated issue. And your plans wouldn't have worked unless we had complete control over the region through military conquest. Bombs and killing made way for control of the region until we pulled out. Otherwise, nothing would have changed in a reasonable amount of time.
 
So directing that to the topic... you think it is patriotic to be cynic about the people in our military?
honestly trying to understand you...
Some people are patriotic in support of troops, some are patriotic over athletes, some celebrate scientists, some celebrate humanitarians. Supporting all aspects of our military and those that are a part of it isn't the orthodox prerequisite for patriotism.
 
I think it'll definitely play a big part. Culture is becoming more and more global, and when someone can see another country and how the people there live, either on the internet or tv or whatever, they want the parts that are better for themselves. That's a big part of how progressive, secular movements are starting in the Middle East. They don't hate our freedom. They want it for themselves. They want freedom, prosperity, education, all of it. But it doesn't happen overnight. This'll take a generation or two. And violence will only make it take longer.

The problem being that the overwhelming "global" culture is American. They don't call it Coca-Colonialism for nothing. Every high street with a Gap, a Starbucks, a McD's, A Walmart etc choking out the native companies, imposing a homogenous alien "culture on TV and the movies as well.
 
True, it wouldn't surprise me if most presidential assassinations were committed by people who thought they were doing something patriotic.

Good question!

That or they are just straight mercenary?
 
I didn't see it either. I heard it was kind of dull. But what I do know is that far too many people in this country equate militarism with patriotism. That's why the OP thinks the movie is patriotic. And that's a dangerous road to walk.

You said it well! :)

I have no doubts it is largely a propaganda piece, just like Zero Dark Thirty was. But I do like Bradley Cooper.
 
And yet the recurring narrative in our society is that killing our enemies is patriotic while trying to find a way to make peace with them is not. Fighting isn't patriotism. Making your country and your culture and your society better is patriotism. That is anything but simple, and I don't know how you would even know if I'm honest or not in this medium.

This mindset is why the left is so ineffective in the war on terror. I love the lefts "definitions".
 
That is helpful in being a great sniper or killer in general. But it is antithetical to being a good person.

Our militaries job is to kill the enemy. Are you saying the men and women of the armed forces aren't good people?
Why am I reminded of the left "supporting our troops but not the mission"?
 
In the long term, violence won't do anything about any radical movements. Only peace and prosperity turn radicals into regular people. No amount of bombs or killing will remove the radical from the Islam. This isn't even a question of patriotism or politics. This is just truth.

Funny under Obama radical terrorism is spreading rapidly across the globe, the violence they employ sure seems to be working.

Peace and prosperity isn't the default-especially around people such as this.

What they understand, is force.
 
It absolutely needn't be a passive process. Helping secular movements take hold in the Middle East, expanding education and human rights, and pulling those countries into the modern era are all things that we can do. Jihadists will disappear once their own societies no longer tolerate them.

The problem with that is radical islamists know that is the precise opposite of what they need for power-so they throw acid in the face of children who dare to get an education, behead voters, etc.

They don't sit by passively as these things happen. This is nothing new, sunshine and rainbows don't work.

Its almost like violence is sometimes needed to stop the irrational acts of irrational people. :2wave:
 
Our militaries job is to kill the enemy. Are you saying the men and women of the armed forces aren't good people?
Why am I reminded of the left "supporting our troops but not the mission"?

No, I'm not saying that. First, most service members never have to kill anyone. I served for 17 years before I was ever put in the position of having to do that. Second, most service members unfortunate enough to have had to kill didn't enjoy it and certainly don't wish to do it again.

There is a spectrum of feelings one may feel when they kill. Some feel disgust and remorse. Most probably rationalize it and just feel numb about it. Few people enjoy killing.

Killing doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. IMO, taking pleasure in killing does.
 
this is the politics of the situation though, it doesn't have anything to do with the troops involved in what we end up choosing to do.

It's an obviously complicated issue. And your plans wouldn't have worked unless we had complete control over the region through military conquest. Bombs and killing made way for control of the region until we pulled out. Otherwise, nothing would have changed in a reasonable amount of time.

What the heck are you talking about? We didn't conquer Egypt. We didn't conquer Afghanistan or Iran back in the 1960s and 70s when they were embracing modern values. Our modern occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan has made them hotbeds for violent extremists. We didn't control anything, and we haven't created any kind of change. That's not something we can do for other people. It's something they do for themselves (though we can certainly help, but killing people doesn't achieve that).

Seriously. Do you know anything about the last fifty years?

You said it well! :)

I have no doubts it is largely a propaganda piece, just like Zero Dark Thirty was. But I do like Bradley Cooper.

I don't think either of them were, and I actually really liked Zero Dark Thirty. I think you can make a movie that involves the military without it having a stance on patriotism and militarism. I'm sure this sniper guy was heroic. But the conflation of macho militarism with love and loyalty for one's culture and nation is just plain nonsense.

The problem being that the overwhelming "global" culture is American. They don't call it Coca-Colonialism for nothing. Every high street with a Gap, a Starbucks, a McD's, A Walmart etc choking out the native companies, imposing a homogenous alien "culture on TV and the movies as well.

That's true in part, but I don't think it's as overwhelming as you think. Granted, my own experience is limited, but when I was living in Japan, there was no shortage of native culture or companies. There was plenty of KFC, but there were also plenty of places where nobody even spoke English. And this was Kyoto, the city with the largest foreign population in the country.

Meanwhile, here in New York, there's lots of other cultures existing quite comfortably next to more common Americana. Five minutes from my front door are businesses that deal primarily in Arabic, Greek, Spanish, and Japanese. There's a Korean Baptist church a few blocks from me. It seems to me that there's lots of blending going on.

Notably, one of the reasons that Marvel superhero movies are doing so well globally is that their depictions of heroism are broad enough so as not to be tied to American values specifically, but rather appeal to a more global mindset. That's why Captain America is a giant hit in China.

You're right that a lot of American brands are exported, but that's an economic thing more than a cultural one, I think. The corporations that own those brands are becoming more international as well, which is a problem when they become more powerful than the countries they're dealing in. But that's a topic for another day.
 
The problem with that is radical islamists know that is the precise opposite of what they need for power-so they throw acid in the face of children who dare to get an education, behead voters, etc.

They don't sit by passively as these things happen. This is nothing new, sunshine and rainbows don't work.

Its almost like violence is sometimes needed to stop the irrational acts of irrational people. :2wave:

Tell me, did the KKK fall out of prominence in this country because we rounded them up and killed them, or because the people of this nation became less accepting of racism and violence?

Funny under Obama radical terrorism is spreading rapidly across the globe, the violence they employ sure seems to be working.

Because he is still employing the Neo-con tactics of his predecessors. Once again, he's not liberal enough.

Peace and prosperity isn't the default-especially around people such as this.

What they understand, is force.

And you defeat them by using something against them that they don't understand. Peace and prosperity is not the default. That's why radicalism and violence can flourish. With peace and prosperity, the ISIS or Al Qaeda recruiters' messages would fall on deaf ears. That's why, as above, there's a lot fewer members of the KKK now than in the past.

You personally may enjoy the idea of killing people who are different than you, but that doesn't have anything to do with how poorly that helps create a peaceful future.
 
No, I'm not saying that. First, most service members never have to kill anyone. I served for 17 years before I was ever put in the position of having to do that. Second, most service members unfortunate enough to have had to kill didn't enjoy it and certainly don't wish to do it again.

There is a spectrum of feelings one may feel when they kill. Some feel disgust and remorse. Most probably rationalize it and just feel numb about it. Few people enjoy killing.

Killing doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. IMO, taking pleasure in killing does.

I dont have a problem with our military (or police) if they take pride in killing the enemy/bad guy. In fact they do.

Kyle killed hundreds of bad people, and in doing so saved the lives of many more peaceful Iraqi's and US military. He didn't do it with a drone or tank, he used a very discriminate weapon with a much lower capacity for collateral damage. Now if the left had any fortitude they would respect him for that-but they dont.

I have no problem with a swat team being happy they dropped a hostage taker either. Sometimes people just need to be shot-thats the tragedy, but not the skilled professional who is able to effectively do that.

The irony here is the left sniping at Chris Kyle.
 
Tell me, did the KKK fall out of prominence in this country because we rounded them up and killed them, or because the people of this nation became less accepting of racism and violence?



Because he is still employing the Neo-con tactics of his predecessors. Once again, he's not liberal enough.



And you defeat them by using something against them that they don't understand. Peace and prosperity is not the default. That's why radicalism and violence can flourish. With peace and prosperity, the ISIS or Al Qaeda recruiters' messages would fall on deaf ears. That's why, as above, there's a lot fewer members of the KKK now than in the past.

You personally may enjoy the idea of killing people who are different than you, but that doesn't have anything to do with how poorly that helps create a peaceful future.

Even the premise of your question is silly. How many people did the KKK kill in its time? How many died under Stalin? How many did ISIS kill this week?

As for the rest, its utopian dribble that would promptly be beheaded by these Islamists. What America has come to know-is that the left is paralyzed by even a modest threat-they are simply ineffective and unable to deal and instead rely on unrealistic and demonstrably failed dogma.

Heres an example from today, even this dem recognizes the silliness we get from the left.
 
Michael Moore’s sniping | New York Post

The Revolutionary War is a good example. We(the Americans) would have snipers in the trees who would pick of British officers then run away. It was a major reason America won the war. How could the liberal darling Michael Moore say such things.

Americans voted on this debate with their pocketbooks. Patriotic Americans won that debate. The American Sniper was and is a huge success!



Seriously, we are reacting to Michael "I never pass up junk food" Moore and Seth Rogan?

Aw, you know Seth is a Canadian, so he sort of is crossing a line, and since he stars in a film about the assassination of a REAL PERSON, he needs to do what Moore needs to do and close the pie hole all together.

The rest of us need to learn to ignore dolt bloggers who like to poke a stick in ants nests.
 
Michael Moore’s sniping | New York Post

The Revolutionary War is a good example. We(the Americans) would have snipers in the trees who would pick of British officers then run away. It was a major reason America won the war. How could the liberal darling Michael Moore say such things.

Americans voted on this debate with their pocketbooks. Patriotic Americans won that debate. The American Sniper was and is a huge success!


Reality Check: It was liberals who nominated this movie and its star for many awards.
 
So did anyone read Moore's actual tweets?
 
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