'Liberals, & Only Liberals Can Win the War in Iraq.' (1 Viewer)

[easyt65]

Home with Bronchitis and having little else to do yesterday, I flipped through the TV channels -

I first stopped on CSPAN and watched the heated debates in Congress over the 2 pieces of legislation regarding a pull-out of Iraq.

I flipped over and spent about 5 minutes each on CNN and Fox. I caught Kerry calling for a pull-out of all troops by mid '07. I heard a Republican banter back, followed by hillary saying that the Liberals could not allow the Republicans turn this into an election talking point with which to bash the Democrats. :roll:

I then flipped over to another news show where they were interviewing the author of a new book, "Liberals, and ONLY Liberals, Can Win the War in Iraq.'

Instead of taking my mind off of being sick, I just felt sicker after all the cr@p I had just seen.

1st of all: The Pull-out --
Whether we like it or not, we are in Iraq and have invested too much in the new goverment's success to do ANYTHING to jeopardize its survival and ability to succeed.
-- The Democrats like to throw up in the GOP's (& America's) face that we have ost over 2,500 American troops in the war....unfortunatelty they invoke that number into the conversation when trying to convince us that we should 'cut-n-run'. Those 2,500+ Americans who died are, quite frankly, ONE of the grreatest reasons we have to stay! If we pull-out to soon and the new Iraqi Govt. fails then those soldiers will have died in vain.
-- We have a chance to make history by assiting the 1st Democratic Goverments to be created and thrive in the heart of the Middle East. Never mind the fact that with great power comes great responsibility and that unseating a tyrant who was raping, torturing, and murdering millions of his own people was the right thing to do, if we have the strength and courage to stay the course in Iraq we will forge new allies, make the world better/safer, and will have done what is RIGHT!

I would agree that we need to pull our troops out and back home just as soon as we can, but I would refer that judgement to the military leaders on the ground in Iraq, who are working side by side with the Iraqi military and the new Iraqi Goverment, NOT John Kerry, Murtha, or Hillary! I would surely trust a military expert in such matters over the word professional politicians who are experts in political partisan attacks, exploiting situations for what is best for their own party &/or their own election rather than what is best for this nation! Hillary Clinton, in true Democratic Party, as well as generic politician, fashion demanded that 'we' (Democrats) not allow the GOP to make this issue an election issue to exploit. :shock: OMG, the hypocrisy!

I'm not trying to single out the Dems, as every freakin' politician seems to be doing it, but at least the Republicans seem to be getting it - they seem to understand the magnitude of improtance of the situation! We are involved in a war against Islamic Extremists who seek to rule the world, just as Hitler did, but who are expotentially more brutal and extreme! In their eyes, there are 2 options - revert to Islam or be beheaded! Iraq is not an isolated case, nor is Afghanistan. We have seen the genocide in Africa, the riots in France and across all of Europe! The war has been going on since Bin Laden declared war on the U.S. in 1995, and it is spreading; but, the Democrats have been trying to convince us for the last few years - even after 9/11, that it is all a lie....because all they can think about is getting their personal and political power back! "$crew what is in the best interest and defense of this country - just let me get MINE!" But even though they get it, the GOP is just as committed to change the most important decisions and happenings of our time into a freakin' political poster or election chant! ENOUGH!

As far as the author goes - he is a partisan IDIOT! He claims that only the Liberals can win the war on Iraq. It was pointed out that the:
1) NONE of the liberals have ever believed in this war, despite their documented speeched before congress where they declared Iraq and Hussein was a threat that had to be dealt with (Even Pres. Clinton said there had to be a regime change. Evidently he did not mean by military means, hoping Hussein would simplyre-sign!:doh ) It is hard to win a war when you don't believe in it to begin with. Instead of winning, getting out becomes the #1 priority....like what is happening now with the DNC.
2) The Democrats have not had IDEA 1 on how the Iraq war should be run/fought. Dean even declared in an interview a year back that the Democrats did not have to have a plan, as they were not in power! Their job, as the Chairman and spokesman of the Democratic Party said, was to criticize the GOP's ideas and impede their ability to run the country. (So, in essence, Deam declared that the Democratic Party's plan was act independently, because they had lost power, to stall, delay, and impede any effort to move the country forward or to do what was in the best interest of the country. Sounds like a bunch of children who vow to do nothing if they can't have their way!) Many GOP have been the same way in the past - Partican Politicis has become the #1 Enemy to this country. No one wants to work together to do what is best for the country any more! Its absolute BS!
3) The Democratic Party is completely divided about what to do right now. Kerry, Murtha, and Hillary are demanding a defined timetable, to inform our enemy exactly when they can begin attacking the new Iraqi Goverment without U.S. Intervention. Other Democrats are sensibly for an eventual pull-out but with no defined date. They believe, and rightfully so, that we stay until the job is done and THEN we go home!

A few weeks ago, terrorists were arrested in Canada - their plot foiled, and a group of self-proclaimed Islamist Extremists Muslims were arrested in Miam last night after planning on striking the Sears Tower and other spots in the U.S. Yet, many Democrats are telling us that the war on terror is a lie. The partisan hatred has reached such new, startling, and frightening heights in our history that many Liberals/Democrats hate our own President more than the recent leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq. After taking down Al Zarqawi in Iraq, the Democrats would offer NO words of praise to our military or acknowledge the mountain of Intel recovered, shifting the tide in the war against the Insurgent Terrorists. Instead, we saw continued attacks on the military, the President, and this nation's resolve! We even saw one state official declare that President Bush should be killed!? WTF?!? Ant this is coming from our so-called LEADERS!

How and when did common sense, descency, respect, and what was best for this nation become so screwed up that our own political leaders, so wrapped up in their own party, power, money, and and their own election that their hatred would be even greater for our own President than for the nation's enemies who behead Americans on TV?!

The war on terrorism is a war against Muslim Islamic Extremists is a World Qar of Survival against forces that would enslave the world and kill all Muslim non-believers. While the Democrats attempt to convince the American people that there is no such war in order to woo and win back voters, they attack and erode the nation's resolve to stand up and fight for their own survival. Jimmy Carter made the U.S. a laughing Stock in the world's eyes because he made us weak. Ronald Reagan made us strong again and won the cold war. President Clinton turned a blind eye to Bin Laden's declaration of war against us, as well as to the hunting of Americans world-wide: Kobar Towers, USS Cole, 2 African Embassies, and a failed Twin Towers attack. The Muslims finally succeeded on 9/11. They reminded us in Iraq, in be-heading Nick Berg and others on TV, that we were in a war and that they want to kill us all.
Instead of attacking each other, our President, our solders, & this nation's resolve our leaders need to be steeling that resolve and pumping up people to be prepared to fight for our survival!

Instead, the politicians in Washington are giving the nation away to illegals, politicizing the struggle in Iraq as well as our struggle against the Islamic Extremists ' Jihad (WAR) against the U.S. Votes, money, and partisanship rule in Washington......and, NO, Mr. Author. Liberals can NOT win the war in Iraq! It will take the continued effort of the men and women in the U.S. military, diligence, strength, courage, and resolve from ALL of us, and for a few good men and women in Washington to do the right thing!

 

[Billo_Really]

And just how specifically will the war end?

 

[Iriemon]

I would agree that we need to pull our troops out and back home just as soon as we can, but I would refer that judgement to the military leaders on the ground in Iraq, who are working side by side with the Iraqi military and the new Iraqi Goverment, NOT John Kerry, Murtha, or Hillary! I would surely trust a military expert in such matters over the word professional politicians who are experts in political partisan attacks, exploiting situations for what is best for their own party &/or their own election rather than what is best for this nation!

You mean the same guys that wrongly got us into the war in the first place, that underestimated the number of troops necessary to do the job, and who claimed the job would be over in months?

Military people are trained to fight wars. Why should we differ to them in matters of geo-political international relations, diplomacy, and nation building issues?

I'm not trying to single out the Dems, as every freakin' politician seems to be doing it, but at least the Republicans seem to be getting it - they seem to understand the magnitude of improtance of the situation!

Getting it? The neo-con Republicans are the ones who have made colossal mistake after colossal mistake which got us into this fiasco! They "get it"? Hardly.

We are involved in a war against Islamic Extremists who seek to rule the world, just as Hitler did, but who are expotentially more brutal and extreme!

And exponentially less powerful, unless united against an external threat.

In their eyes, there are 2 options - revert to Islam or be beheaded! Iraq is not an isolated case, nor is Afghanistan. We have seen the genocide in Africa, the riots in France and across all of Europe! The war has been going on since Bin Laden declared war on the U.S. in 1995, and it is spreading; but, the Democrats have been trying to convince us for the last few years - even after 9/11, that it is all a lie....because all they can think about is getting their personal and political power back! "$crew what is in the best interest and defense of this country - just let me get MINE!" But even though they get it, the GOP is just as committed to change the most important decisions and happenings of our time into a freakin' political poster or election chant! ENOUGH!

I think you have it backwards. It is the conservatives who are totally invested in the war on terror and keeping us terrorized, it is the way they can promote their goals of a security state, funding their friends in the military industrial complex, and maintaining power. But it is backfiring because they have been so wrong on so many things.

As far as the author goes - he is a partisan IDIOT! He claims that only the Liberals can win the war on Iraq. It was pointed out that the:

1) NONE of the liberals have ever believed in this war, despite their documented speeched before congress where they declared Iraq and Hussein was a threat that had to be dealt with (Even Pres. Clinton said there had to be a regime change. Evidently he did not mean by military means, hoping Hussein would simplyre-sign!:doh ) It is hard to win a war when you don't believe in it to begin with. Instead of winning, getting out becomes the #1 priority....like what is happening now with the DNC.

Which is why it is a good idea not to take the country to war based upon misrepresentations as to the reasons why we are doing it. If these guys had paid attention at all to Vietnam, they might have learned that the American public will not put up with a long term, costly war that is based on BS grounds.

2) The Democrats have not had IDEA 1 on how the Iraq war should be run/fought. Dean even declared in an interview a year back that the Democrats did not have to have a plan, as they were not in power! Their job, as the Chairman and spokesman of the Democratic Party said, was to criticize the GOP's ideas and impede their ability to run the country. (So, in essence, Deam declared that the Democratic Party's plan was act independently, because they had lost power, to stall, delay, and impede any effort to move the country forward or to do what was in the best interest of the country. Sounds like a bunch of children who vow to do nothing if they can't have their way!) Many GOP have been the same way in the past - Partican Politicis has become the #1 Enemy to this country. No one wants to work together to do what is best for the country any more! Its absolute BS!

Hopefully more and more will acknowledge that this indefinite occupation is hurting US interests and will support leaving their country.

3) The Democratic Party is completely divided about what to do right now. Kerry, Murtha, and Hillary are demanding a defined timetable, to inform our enemy exactly when they can begin attacking the new Iraqi Goverment without U.S. Intervention. Other Democrats are sensibly for an eventual pull-out but with no defined date. They believe, and rightfully so, that we stay until the job is done and THEN we go home!

The Democratic party is not made up of one person. They will speak with a more unified voice when they have to select a candidate for president.

A few weeks ago, terrorists were arrested in Canada - their plot foiled, and a group of self-proclaimed Islamist Extremists Muslims were arrested in Miam last night after planning on striking the Sears Tower and other spots in the U.S. Yet, many Democrats are telling us that the war on terror is a lie.

Who is saying the "war" on terrorism is a lie? Some may doubt that it is a "war", but I don't think anyone disputes there are people out there willing to use terrorist tactics.

The partisan hatred has reached such new, startling, and frightening heights in our history that many Liberals/Democrats hate our own President more than the recent leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq.

For a minute I thought you were talking about your partisan hatred for the Democrats.

After taking down Al Zarqawi in Iraq, the Democrats would offer NO words of praise to our military or acknowledge the mountain of Intel recovered, shifting the tide in the war against the Insurgent Terrorists. Instead, we saw continued attacks on the military, the President, and this nation's resolve! We even saw one state official declare that President Bush should be killed!? WTF?!? Ant this is coming from our so-called LEADERS!

I don't recall anyone complaining about the fact Zarqawi was killed.

How and when did common sense, descency, respect, and what was best for this nation become so screwed up that our own political leaders, so wrapped up in their own party, power, money, and and their own election that their hatred would be even greater for our own President than for the nation's enemies who behead Americans on TV?!

That happens when the government misrepresents things to you over and over again. People start to question the common sense and decency of their own government and lose respect for it. Another lesson that should have been learned from Vietnam.

 

[easyt65]

IMHO, the Iraqis will take over and will run their own country.

(I can see you rolling your eyes and laughing)

The demand that the Liberals have that the Iraqi goverment, and nation in regards to having the ability to stand up and immediately take over 100% in fighting the terrorists who are still within their borders, immediately stand up as a nation and start running their own country immediately is being totally UN-Realistic! How long did it take us to come up with a Constitution, Bill? Yet the Iraqis did so in a lot less time under OUR timeline! We tend to forget how long it took the U.S. to do what we are demanding the Iraqis do, and they have a LOT more complications than we ever did!

It was only a while back when the Liberals demanded and shouted, "When are the Iraqis going to start dying for their own Country/Independence?!" Remember that? Well, it didn't take long - they were dying in lines waiting to join up as policemen, security forces, and soldiers...and they have kept coming! They have begun taking over the primary roles in many operations against the insurgents! They are growing and coming along, but we can not strap them with a timetable and say, 'THIS is all the time you have to stand up on your own feet or we are outta here!' Anyone who thinks that is reasonable is a moron, is NOT realistic, and knows nothing about the military nor has attempted to stand up a goverment!

We don't give FREEDOM a deadline! We don't give LIBERTY a timetable! And we don't force time limits on allies after which we threaten to abandon them in their struggles! I know that is what Kerry wants to do, but he has made a living from betraying this country, attacking our troops, and from cutting-and-running, which is EXACTLY what his plan now calls for!

Since we took down Zarqawi, we have executed over 400 operations against the Insurgents. Iraqi units have conducted about 1/3 of those alone! The informatin and material recovered from Zarqawi was INVALUABLE. While our media and politicians like Kerry and Murtha were bombarding the American people with the messages that we were losing, Zarqawi's own papers, in his own hand-writing, told the story about how the U.S. was winning, how time was on AMERICA's side as long as they stayed the course because of how more and more Iraqis were stepping up and joining the fight against Al Qaeda and the insurgents! He said he was afraid of the Iraqi Goverment standing up on its own because once they did successfully and the U.S. did eventually pull out then it would be his band of Muslims attacking nothing BUT other Muslims! He said he could justify it for now as them simply getting in the way of him and Americans...but he gave the U.S. credit for the job they were doing and was afraid we would NOT pull out before Iraq could stand on its own two feet!

Tell me, Bill - why is it that even our own enemy, who wants us all dead, gives more credit to the U.S., the military, and the job we are doing than do guys like Kerry, Murtha, and Hillary? Why is it that our own leaders are trying to convince us that we are losing when even our enemy praises us for winning/the job we are doing?

I'll answer for ya - because our success in Iraq, while it is good for Iraq and this nation, it is acknowledged by the Democrats as being terrible for them as a party and for them PERSONALLY, and they have been and continue to put themselves and the party over what is good for this nation and what is right! Our freakin' enemy can be honest about how the war is going, but our own opoliticians CAN'T/WON'T because of their own agendas! That's pretty pathetic!

 

[easyt65]

Military people are trained to fight wars. Why should we differ to them in matters of geo-political international relations, diplomacy, and nation building issues?

You said it yourself - military people are trained to fight wars. Kerry, a politician, is trying to make the military decision of when it is feasabile to execute a military withdrawl. He has no basis of understanding or ability to make that decision! Getting a Purple Heart from having a piece of rice lodged in your @$$ after blowing up a San-pan or meeting with the enemy in Paris to betray your own goverment by discussing plans for the U.S. to cut-n-run then doesn't qualify you as an expert on the matter!

Quote:
We are involved in a war against Islamic Extremists who seek to rule the world, just as Hitler did, but who are expotentially more brutal and extreme!

And exponentially less powerful, unless united against an external threat.

Less dangerous than Hitler? Depends on your view, I guess. Kobar Towers, USS Cole, 2 African Embassy bombings, Twin Towers on our own soil...genocide on several continents, riots throughout the world, and the threat continues to grow. At least during the cold war the nukes and 'nasties' were isolated and we knew where they were. As the latest arrests in Miami show, today's threat can pop up at any time right here in our own back yards! BTW: 'Unless United against an external threat' - the Islamic Evtremists have defined that 'external threat' themslelves as ANY Non-Muslim!

I think you have it backwards. It is the conservatives who are totally invested in the war on terror and keeping us terrorized, it is the way they can promote their goals of a security state, funding their friends in the military industrial complex, and maintaining power. But it is backfiring because they have been so wrong on so many things.

Thank you for proving my point about how the Liberals just don't get it! You have no concept about what a Free Iraq means in the middle East. You have no idea about the on-going war against Islamic Extremists! Clinton ignored that war for years, and how many American lives did his cowardice/ignorance cost? You are either ignorant or just simply hate Bush and the GOP to demand that the war on terror is a lie, even in the wake of last night's arrest of the latest group of terrorists on American soil who planned to attack the Sears Tower and other sites! You would rather believe, in your hatred, that Kobar Towers, USS Cole, the Twin Towers, and last night are all made-up or isolated or maufactured events to perpetuate the 'lie' of a global terrorism for political purposes! How sad!

If these guys had paid attention at all to Vietnam, they might have learned that the American public will not put up with a long term, costly war that is based on BS grounds.

Like John Kerry, it seems you and the Democratic Party are stuck in the 1960s/70s and in Viet Nam! It is a new era, a new war, and a new enemy. Islamic Extremists brought the war here to America on our soil, after attacking our troops and personnel for years abroad - attacks that went ignored by the last President! And of course we learned that America can not stomach a long term war, especially when the very political leaders who demand that we retreat because we can not win are meeting with enemy leaders in foreign nations to discuss this nation's surrender! Just like then, Kerry is attacking and undermining this nation's resolve, working against the nation's best interests, working against our military men and women. As I pointed out - as ZARQAWI POINTED OUT - while America has been succeeding in Iraq, defeating Zarqawi and the terrorists, his biggest weapon has been our own Liberal politicians who were criminally campaigning FOR the terrorists while trying to convince the American people we were losing! How can Americans be expected to stand fast with great resolve to do what must be done/seen through when our own politicians are working with the enemy to erode our resolve and lose the war?!

Hopefully more and more will acknowledge that this indefinite occupation is hurting US interests and will support leaving their country.

Hopefully people will realize that the 'doom and gloom' the Democrats have been preaching has been totally wrong, as can be seen by Zarqawi's own writings and the successes we have had through the intel and information we collected in the wake of his death! Hopefully Americans will realize that turning your back on an attacking enemy, as Bill Clinton found out, only fills many more body bags. If we always cut and run, even when faced with a war for our own existence, we are a nation doomed to die! If liberty is not worth fighting for, then what is? JFK once said that we would pay any price, make any sacrifice, stand beside any ally in the fight for Freedom. Today's Democrats undermine our resolve to keep that promise while teaching America about how to betray/abandon allies, cut-n-run, and not to fight - even for our own survival! The only survival that matters to them - for MOST politicians of both parties - is their own POLITICAL survival!

The Democratic party is not made up of one person. They will speak with a more unified voice when they have to select a candidate for president.

How can you speak with a Unified Voice when you don't even agree with what your core values, the principles that make up your party, are? All this time during Bush's Presidency, the only core value I have seen the Democrats agree on is survival of their party, Party-1st, and 'Obstructionist' politics designed to reach an end state beneficial to them and ONLY them!

Who is saying the "war" on terrorism is a lie? Some may doubt that it is a "war", but I don't think anyone disputes there are people out there willing to use terrorist tactics.

You can't even agree with YOURSELF!

1st you say (above): ...the conservatives....are totally invested in the war on terror and keeping us terrorized, it is the way they can promote their goals of a security state, funding their friends in the military industrial complex, and maintaining power.
-- So, it is a GOP-Led campaign to keep America terrorized so they can stay in power through fear.

Next you say: I don't think anyone disputes there are people out there willing to use terrorist tactics.
-- You STILL can't bring yourself to say that there is a WAR - you say 'there are people willing to use terrorist tactics'. There is a BIG difference between 'people willing to use terrorist tactics' and a war against terrorism/terrorists!


Quote:
The partisan hatred has reached such new, startling, and frightening heights in our history that many Liberals/Democrats hate our own President more than the recent leader of Al Qaeda in Iraq.

For a minute I thought you were talking about your partisan hatred for the Democrats.

I don't hate the Democrats, believe it or not. I hate POLITICS, 1st and foremost. I hate politicians from both parties using this critical struggle, this watr that we are engaged in, as a political tool for their own personal gain! I hate that the rabid delusional hatred of the Democrats who villainize Bush more than they do Zarqawi or Bin Laden! I hate how Democrats like Feingold who submit partisan legislation calling for the CENSURE of a sitting President for something LEGAL out of pure desire of vengance and partisan politics, no matter what party they are from! I hate the fact that Democrats like Murtha, Dean, and Kerry undermine this nation's resolve, attack our soldiers, and declare when we are winning and that even our own enemy gives us more credit and respect than they do!

I don't recall anyone complaining about the fact Zarqawi was killed.

No, no one said one word, after yelling for months/years that we were losing, that there was no way we could win, and that we should 'cut and run'! Democrats did say, however, that Zarqawi's death meant very little (once again belittling our accomplishments as Zarqawi noticed while actually winning) when the aftermath has shown a decisive blow to Insurgent operations!

 

[easyt65]

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50763

GLOBAL JIHAD
Hamas: Islam will conquer U.S., Britain
A new video on the website of the Palestinian terrorist and governing group Hamas promises the eventual defeat and subjugation of Western nations under Islam.

THIS is not just a case of 'people willing to use terrorist tactics'. THIS is WAR...and it is NOT a war we will simply be able to cut and run from!