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Liberals on Libertarian Issues

Liberals only: Please select the issues you agree with


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    22

Redress

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Please only vote in this poll if you are a liberal.

I posted a poll not long ago on how Libertarians on this board feel about the platform issues of the Libertarian party. The poll can be found here (Libertarian Issues-Libertarians only please vote) and the Libertarian Platform is here.

Now I am curious how conservatives and liberals view these same issues. In this poll, please vote if you are a liberal who does not identify as a libertarian. There is an identical poll for conservatives found right here.

Poll incoming, be patient, I type slow.
 

the makeout hobo

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The only two that I agree with at all is ending drug prohibition (though only for pot and maybe a few similar substances) and some sort of work for amnesty program.
 

tacomancer

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Looks like the only thing I largely agree with is a less interventionalist foreign policy. But I am not sure that is realistic since we have stuck our nose in the world so long, we are no longer seen as a neutral country by anyone.
 

Goshin

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This should be intresting...

:popcorn2:
 

molten_dragon

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Hmm, Most of them I don't fully agree with one way or the other.

Laissez Faire Capitalism: I don't agree with this. There needs to be some regulation.
End Drug Prohibition: Voted yes, but only for certain drugs. Some things should remain illegal. Anything should be considered for medical use though.
Avoid Interventionism in foreign policy: Voted yes. There should be some exceptions though. If not intervening is going to put us at serious risk, we should still do it, or if it's a close ally and they ask us to intervene.
End Foreign Aid: Voted yes. Pretty much the same caveats as above.
End Gun Bans: I voted yes, but it kind of depends on what you mean. I do believe in some restrictions on gun ownership, but actual bans on owning guns I don't believe in. I also don't believe most bans against certain types of weapons are useful and should be repealed, with the exception of fully automatic weapons.
Deregulate Healthcare: No, this is a bad idea. We need some healthcare regulation.
Semi-Amnesty: No, the only type of 'amnesty' I believe in is if you're illegal and you leave the country before you're caught, you can apply to become a citizen legally. I think the legal path to citizenship should be made easier though.
End Welfare: No, it serves a necessary purpose.
Allow opting out of social security: No, again it serves a necessary purpose.
 

Groucho

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Most of these are not yes/no, but there are degrees of gray. (And there should have been a "none" choice)

I voted for the drug prohibition, but only for marijuana...

And for the partial amnesty, although it's a lot more complicated than that.

What about other libertarian issues that overlap liberals a lot? Like gay rights and keeping abortion legal?
 

Redress

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Most of these are not yes/no, but there are degrees of gray. (And there should have been a "none" choice)

I voted for the drug prohibition, but only for marijuana...

And for the partial amnesty, although it's a lot more complicated than that.

What about other libertarian issues that overlap liberals a lot? Like gay rights and keeping abortion legal?
I realized the none choice thing as soon as soon as I went to vote in this one since it was for liberals.

I took the issues from the Libertarian party website, the issues section. They did not list those, so I did not mention them.
 

goldcatt

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There are only two I could really say I support, noninterventionsim being the only one I can support fully. With most of the others the devil is, as always, in the details.
 

Progressive86

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I'm in favor of four out of the nine that were listed. Also those that I'm in favor of I'm pretty much on the same boat as Libertarians are especially when it comes to: End Drug Prohibition, Avoid Interventionism in Foreign Policy, and End Gun Bans. When it comes to drugs I'm in favor of legalizing all drugs (Not just marijuana like some people believe). When it comes to interventionism I think we need to mind our own business and deal with our own problems instead of getting ourselves in between everyone elses conflict. Lastly when it comes to gun laws there should be no bans on anyone to acquire guns as it is a violation of the second amendment right.
 

Jucon

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Most of these I'm half for...

Laissez Faire capitalism: Um, no...

End drug prohibition: I'm only for ending prohibition concerning marijuana.

Avoid interventionism in foreign policy: Yes, but there are instances where we need to defend our interests. The main thing is we need to bring troops home from foreign countries when we have no good reason to have them there.

End foreign aid: Foreign aid should not be ended. Scaled back, perhaps.

End gun bans: Our gun owning laws need to be looked into in some cases, but I am not for ending all gun bans.

Deregulate healthcare: No

Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens(work for amnesty): If this is done, it should be done in moderation and should only be given to those who will be productive in our society. We don't need poor/unskilled people coming to the U.S.

End welfare: I wouldn't say end it, but scale it back.

Allow opting out of Social Security: No, but like welfare, social security needs to be changed to be sustainable.
 
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DrunkenAsparagus

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May I ask Redress, what's with a Liberal such as yourself posting the Libertarian threads? Could our brainwashing techniques be finally getting to you?
 

Redress

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May I ask Redress, what's with a Liberal such as yourself posting the Libertarian threads? Could our brainwashing techniques be finally getting to you?
Heh, never happen. No, I am curious to understand Libertarians(they make no sense to me), and to see how they align with the views of the other posters here on the board.
 

DrunkenAsparagus

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Heh, never happen. No, I am curious to understand Libertarians(they make no sense to me), and to see how they align with the views of the other posters here on the board.
We will have you fighting to destroy government so we can feed poor peoples' babies to our corporate masters soon enough
 
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Spartacus FPV

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Heh, never happen. No, I am curious to understand Libertarians(they make no sense to me), and to see how they align with the views of the other posters here on the board.
No sense? Do you find their positions logically fallacious? Where do you disagree with them? Can you watch this video and tell me at which point you disagree?

Edit: Sorry for posting in a thread that wasn't for libertarians.
 

tacomancer

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This should be intresting...

:popcorn2:
yep

P.S. rants (as in the post above) probably aren't going to help with understanding and will probably just make you and your position look bad.
 
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samsmart

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Here's how I voted:

Agree:
End drug prohibition
We need to end the Drug War. The costs in the War on Drugs is greater than the benefits we get from it. And I'm not only for the legalization of marijuana, I'm for the legalization and regulation of all recreational drugs. If people want to get high, let them get high if that's what it takes for them to get through the day. It will also help reduce the violence in Mexico, Central America, and South America, since the U.S. is one of the greatest consumers of illegal and recreational drugs. Legalizing drug use will help reduce the violent crime of those cartels who pursue crime, and can only ease tensions south of the border.

Semi-amnesty for illegal aliens (work for amnesty)
I'm all for immigrant labor in our country. Most of the immigrant labor in our country, I believe, is in the agricultural industry, something which, in my experience, few Americans actually want to get into. Also, using immigrant labor is a mutually beneficial relationship. The worth of a dollar is higher in nations immigrants come from than it is here in the U.S. That means that an immigrant worker can work a season or two here in the U.S. making basic pay, take it home, and live the rest of the year on his earnings. Also, immigrants buy goods from local stores and take them back to their home country, further expanding our nation's economy as they buy goods in the U.S. that they can't in their home country. Immigrant labor is nothing but a win-win situation and we should reduce those barriers, not increase them. The only reason why illegal immigration is such a hot topic in the Southwest, such as Arizona, is because they are getting caught in the drug violence from Mexico. So legalizing drugs will end the drug violence in Mexico and put an end to the fear of illegal immigrant criminals from our southern neighbors.

Where I disagree:

Laissez Faire capitalism
I think the government should have the power to regulate businesses, and for a variety of reasons, including labor protections, environmental protections, and consumer protections. Under laissez faire capitalism, businessmen and industrialists consolidate power through their wealth and resources, despite the fact that laborers are just as much voters as they are.

Avoid interventionism in foreign policy
There are times when I think the U.S. should intervene as a matter of foreign policy. This is especially the case with regards to supporting our allies and making good on treaty agreements. I don't think a desire not to intervene should interfere with any of those commitments. In fact, I think we should do more to get the U.N. and other nations to intervene in world affairs, especially with regards to humanitarian issues.

End foreign aid
I don't think we should end foreign aid at all. Foreign aid is a matter of international diplomacy, and if we don't give out foreign aid to keep nations friendly to us, then our enemy nations will, and we'll lose strategic advantages on the world stage. Having bases all over the world and giving money to nations for access for military assets only helps us. Not just militarily but also economically, as we can use those bases to protect sea routes and other areas of resources important to us. Critics of foreign aid say that it is wasted money, but in fact it is quite a small percentage of the budget.

End gun bans
I believe that there are some firearms that should be banned. After all, freedom of speech is not an unregulated right in the U.S. Neither, then, should be the right to bear arms. The kind of firearms I'm mostly against are assault weapons.

Deregulate health care
I'm a believer in the public option. I think Americans deserve to have the option for government health care if they feel private health care does not serve their interests. This doesn't mean that I want to get rid of private health care; rather, I think Americans should be allowed to have a choice between public health care and private health care, similar to how they now have a choice between public transportation and private transportation, or public education and private education.

End welfare
I wouldn't end welfare benefits. The Constitution says the government is to look out for the general welfare of it's people. I believe welfare includes that. Mostly, this is for people with disabilities, temporary unemployment, and the elderly. Those people are Americans as well, and the government has a duty to look out for their general welfare, which the private sector may not always do, as the private sector's duty is to generate a profit. In some areas, those two goals are mutually exclusive. So I would not end welfare. Neither would I, however, allow for a permanent welfare class. It's just that I would want people with disabilities to have equal opportunities as those without, and safety nets in place for the temporarily unemployed and the elderly.

Allowing opting out of Social Security
Again, no, I would not. I want Social Security to be there as a safety net for Americans. Social Security is there for our elderly in case their private investments fail. While private investment accounts are used a safety net, they aren't entirely safe. This is for a variety of reasons, from fraud to an individual company to instability in the whole stock market. The elderly, who are the least able to work, require the safety net that Social Security provides. While it may need some reform, it is unfortunate that neither side of the aisle will actually reform it. That doesn't mean we need it's abolished, however.
 
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Spartacus FPV

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yep

P.S. rants (as in the post above) probably aren't going to help with understanding and will probably just make you and your position look bad.
Asking how one's logic is fallacious or why one disagrees constitutes a rant to you? I really do wonder what you would consider a valid question on a debate forum then between two people who disagree.

Just how does asking "How am I wrong?" make one look bad?
 

Redress

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No sense? Do you find their positions logically fallacious? Where do you disagree with them? Can you watch this video and tell me at which point you disagree?

Edit: Sorry for posting in a thread that wasn't for libertarians.
I will happily answer your questions, but not in this thread please. If you could create a different thread I will watch your video(though probably not till tomorrow, I am fighting to stay awake now) and answer your questions.
 

tacomancer

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Asking how one's logic is fallacious or why one disagrees constitutes a rant to you? I really do wonder what you would consider a valid question on a debate forum then between two people who disagree.

Just how does asking "How am I wrong?" make one look bad?
Perhaps it is the common misconception that can happen over a written medium, but the post seemed defensive in nature and carried the air of someone who was offended. If I read something into it that was not there than I retract my response.
 

Spartacus FPV

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Perhaps it is the common misconception that can happen over a written medium, but the post seemed defensive in nature and carried the air of someone who was offended. If I read something into it that was not there than I retract my response.
Defensive, perhaps at the notion that it was a "rant". Offended, never.
 
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Spartacus FPV

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I will happily answer your questions, but not in this thread please. If you could create a different thread I will watch your video(though probably not till tomorrow, I am fighting to stay awake now) and answer your questions.
I actually started a thread on the video about 2 years ago:
http://www.debatepolitics.com/archives/32463-philosophy-liberty.html

But if you don't wanna revive a dead old thread I would appreciate your reply in a PM.

Edit: That being said, I'll vacate your thread. Libertarians need not apply I saw.
 
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tacomancer

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