Liberals, is the "Deep State" real?

[Grandpappy]

Remember when Bush started the Iraq war? Remember that Cheney used to work for Haliburton? Remember how Haliburton stock gained value?

Remember when Obama explained that " these jobs are never coming back " and " this is the new normal" when asked about offshoring?

You asked for examples of Deep State actions. That's just two.

 

[CaughtInThe]

It is for the purpose of getting Donald Trump, a crook and con man, elected.

 

[independentusa]

Entrenched bureaucracy. A group of like minded individuals of both parties that despise Trump because he's not a player of their games. They love profitable wars, Chinese manufacturing profits and crony capitalism, the very essence of government by highest bidder.
Trump cut out a slice of their pie...I feel so sorry for them. You?

If you do, vote for Joe. He is, and has been one of them for many years.

Or do they just not exist?

Trump has changed the game from one of what can we do for the country to what can we do for Trump. THe so called "deep state" is just everyone in the government that is not totally loyal to Trump and his gang. Although that gang keeps getting smaller as more end up being indicted and convicted.

 

[americanwoman]

Remember when Bush started the Iraq war? Remember that Cheney used to work for Haliburton? Remember how Haliburton stock gained value?

Remember when Obama explained that " these jobs are never coming back " and " this is the new normal" when asked about offshoring?

You asked for examples of Deep State actions. That's just two.

Explain how the deep state has such power yet was not able to stop an "outsider" like Donald Trump from becoming President?

Remember, according to Trump, it seems to be really easy to rig elections.

 

[Greenbeard]

Remember when Bush started the Iraq war? Remember that Cheney used to work for Haliburton? Remember how Haliburton stock gained value?

How can the elected political leadership be the Deep State?

 

[Grandpappy]

How can the elected political leadership be the Deep State?

Oh, many politicians are happy to play the game.

 

[Greenbeard]

Oh, many politicians are happy to play the game.

This makes zero sense. If the political leadership can control the "entrenched bureaucracy" to achieve its aims, how is there a Deep State?

 

[Grandpappy]

Explain how the deep state has such power yet was not able to stop an "outsider" like Donald Trump from becoming President?

Remember, according to Trump, it seems to be really easy to rig elections.

You think the RNC wanted Trump as the nominee in 2016? They didn't.

 

[Grandpappy]

This makes zero sense. If the political leadership can control the "entrenched bureaucracy" to achieve its aims, how is there a Deep State?

They're all on the same team.

 

[jnug]

I mean, there's certainly an entrenched bureaucracy, every government is going to have something like that. Is it some big conspiracy theory trying to take down Trump? No.

Trump IS crony capitalism personified. He isn't really different, he was always just the other side of the Corporate-State coin.

Correct, "entrenched bureaucracy" IS NOT the Deep State. The nature of bureaucracy is to become entrenched and for the most part its to the good. Does anybody actually think these elected ya-hoos have any earthly idea what they are doing or how to keep the government functioning even at a nominal level? You have to be interested in governance to have any actual shot at producing good governance. That alone tells you the relative split between Elephants and Donkeys within the category of elected officials that have a shot at governance on any level.

The deep state as a definition was created in my younger days and really started to rear its head when Ike was President. It is not "entrenched bureaucracy". It is not "bureaucracy" though any individual we might assume to be active in the Deep State would in fact be a bureaucrat. Deep State bureaucrats are bureaucrats that work to an agenda that is counter to the purposes of the American People. That does not neccessarily mean counter to elected officials as many elected officials especially these days have no earthly idea what they are doing with regard to governance. Many of them do not care about governance and do not know how the government actually functions. Their purpose in many cases is to be re-elected and that is about it.

The Military and DOD personnel that constantly fudged the numbers to make it look to elected officials as if we were winning the Vietnam War or even ever had a shot at winning it during the LBJ years were Deep State Operatives. Oliver North would be a Deep Stater if we assume Reagan had no real idea what North was doing. Those are the best two examples I can think of off the top of my head. The clowns that pushed the Bay of Pigs on Kennedy might be considered Deep Staters.

 

[americanwoman]

You think the RNC wanted Trump as the nominee in 2016? They didn't.

If this 'deep state' can't keep an asshole out that they really, really do not want in, I am not worried about them. :shrug: They must not have too much power.

 

[Lisa]

Remember when Bush started the Iraq war? Remember that Cheney used to work for Haliburton? Remember how Haliburton stock gained value?

Remember when Obama explained that " these jobs are never coming back " and " this is the new normal" when asked about offshoring?

You asked for examples of Deep State actions. That's just two.

That is not some evil deep state. That is crony capitalism. Wars have always been about profit. Marine General and hero Smedley Butler write War is a Racket about 100 years ago.

War Is A Racket, by Major General Smedley Butler, 1935

Those jobs went to Mexico and then overseas because of capitalism drove for ever lower costs. In china they can pay pennies on the dollar to American wages and have very few worker protections and environmental regulations. They aren't coming back unless you are willing to work for 3rd world wages. You can blame H.W.Bush and the GOP for writing NAFTA.

You're a fool if you believe that Donald Trump actually opposes immigration because his proprieties hire many of them because they are cheap.
Report: Trump Happily Employing Undocumented Workers While ICE Rounds Them Up | Vanity Fair


Slavery is the ultimate form of low cost labor for corporations, and now we have for-profit private prisons and the inmates being sold to corporations as workers and getting paid less than a dollar and hour for it. You supported this idea with privatizing prisons and your push for the GOPs slogan of "Law and Order" that fills those prisons.

 

[Mr Person]

Entrenched bureaucracy. A group of like minded individuals of both parties that despise Trump because he's not a player of their games. They love profitable wars, Chinese manufacturing profits and crony capitalism, the very essence of government by highest bidder.
Trump cut out a slice of their pie...I feel so sorry for them. You?

If you do, vote for Joe. He is, and has been one of them for many years.

Or do they just not exist?

It's really sad that you actually believe that moronic ****. There are lifetime civil servants who were appointed by various presidents, but there is no "deep state". All of reality is not conspiring to victimize Trump. Trump sucks. That's why you hear a lot of bad things about him. Call Occam if you still don't get it.

Or, I guess, make a tinfoil cape to go with the hat.

Remember when Bush started the Iraq war? Remember that Cheney used to work for Haliburton? Remember how Haliburton stock gained value?

Remember when Obama explained that " these jobs are never coming back " and " this is the new normal" when asked about offshoring?

You asked for examples of Deep State actions. That's just two.

Seriously?

You can't go from claiming the "Deep State" is actually lifetime civil servants secretly beholden to Obama who are plotting to victimize Trump specifically over to explaining that the "Deep State" is actually the president and VP taking us into a misguided war based on faulty intelligence. The former is the explanation always trotted out for why a whistleblower leaks Trump corruption or criminality. The latter....the latter is the ****ing president and VP selling a war. If we're going to call that anything, we should call it the "open state."

If anything the Haliburton-Iraq business is what Eisenhower warned of, 'the industrial-military complex'. Meaning links between defense contractors, pentagon, and politicians. War profiteering. It has nothing to do with conspiring to victimize one president in particular, but not any of the others. And that is how "deep state" has been used.

As for Obama remarking about offshoring, that has nothing to do with the industrial-military complex or any "Deep State". That's the simple result of manufacturers going where it's cheapest, requiring people who used to work those blue collar jobs train up and find something else. It's not some nefarious plot by lifetime civil servants. It's basic economics. And there are two solutions: people train up and and into different jobs that aren't being off-shored, or restrictive trade policies that massively drive up goods the average citizen relies on, like smart phones.

And by massive I mean massive. Again: Americans' conflicting desire to have manufacturing jobs in the country AND cheap things is not some plot by shady government actors. It's just plain old short-sighted human greed; wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Grandpappy]

If this 'deep state' can't keep an asshole out that they really, really do not want in, I am not worried about them. :shrug: They must not have too much power.

We the people are more powerful than the Deep State. WtP nominated Trump out of 16 (or 19)? other candidates the GOP put up.

 

[Greenbeard]

We the people are more powerful than the Deep State. WtP nominated Trump out of 16 (or 19)? other candidates the GOP put up.

And we the people voted for his opponent. He was installed via the votes of some of the 538 elites empowered to overturn the will of the people.

 

[americanwoman]

We are people are more powerful than the Deep State. WtP nominated Trump out of 16 (or 19)? other candidates the GOP put up.

Again, this super duper powerful Deep State government that supposedly runs things could have somehow prevented that.

 

[Grandpappy]

Seriously?

You can't go from claiming the "Deep State" is actually lifetime civil servants secretly beholden to Obama who are plotting to victimize Trump specifically over to explaining that the "Deep State" is actually the president and VP taking us into a misguided war based on faulty intelligence. The former is the explanation always trotted out for why a whistleblower leaks Trump corruption or criminality. The latter....the latter is the ****ing president and VP selling a war. If we're going to call that anything, we should call it the "open state."

If anything the Haliburton-Iraq business is what Eisenhower warned of, 'the industrial-military complex'. Meaning links between defense contractors, pentagon, and politicians. War profiteering. It has nothing to do with conspiring to victimize one president in particular, but not any of the others. And that is how "deep state" has been used.

As for Obama remarking about offshoring, that has nothing to do with the industrial-military complex or any "Deep State". That's the simple result of manufacturers going where it's cheapest, requiring people who used to work those blue collar jobs train up and find something else. It's not some nefarious plot by lifetime civil servants. It's basic economics. And there are two solutions: people train up and and into different jobs that aren't being off-shored, or restrictive trade policies that massively drive up goods the average citizen relies on, like smart phones.

And by massive I mean massive. Again: Americans' conflicting desire to have manufacturing jobs in the country AND cheap things is not some plot by shady government actors. It's just plain old short-sighted human greed; wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

You aren't understanding. The Deep State is about money and influence, not the advancement of any political party. There are people on both sides that are members. They only play politics if a politician won't play their game.
That's why Bernie got shot down.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Entrenched bureaucracy. A group of like minded individuals of both parties that despise Trump because he's not a player of their games. They love profitable wars, Chinese manufacturing profits and crony capitalism, the very essence of government by highest bidder.
Trump cut out a slice of their pie...I feel so sorry for them. You?

If you do, vote for Joe. He is, and has been one of them for many years.

Or do they just not exist?

It's NOT a "Deep State" it's Organized Plutocrats (Oligarchs) that are maneuvering to make Donald John Trump and imperial president under their control; simultaneously working to gain control of the Judiciary and Legislature to turn them into a rubber-stamp approval machine for THEIR president. Yes, "A group of like minded individuals" that "love profitable wars, Chinese manufacturing profits and crony capitalism, the very essence of government by highest bidder."

Joe Biden would NEVER be party to such a scheme, but Donald John Trump, with the help of Barr, McConnell, Jordan and the like, is just the glib ego-maniac they've been looking for.

 

[Grandpappy]

It's NOT a "Deep State" it's Organized Plutocrats (Oligarchs) that are maneuvering to make Donald John Trump and imperial president under their control; simultaneously working to gain control of the Judiciary and Legislature to turn them into a rubber-stamp approval machine for THEIR president. Yes, "A group of like minded individuals" that "love profitable wars, Chinese manufacturing profits and crony capitalism, the very essence of government by highest bidder."

Joe Biden would NEVER be party to such a scheme, but Donald John Trump, with the help of Barr, McConnell, Jordan and the like, is just the glib ego-maniac they've been looking for.

Why would Trump sell out? He has more money than he can spend.

 

[independentusa]

Why would Trump sell out? He has more money than he can spend.

Do you really believe that, that Trump has a lot of money? He is leveraged up to his eyeballs and probably owes a lot to the Russians and some other bad actors as most legit banks will not lend him money. Why do you think he and his family do everything they can to make money in small change that other "wealthy" people would not bend over to pick up off the ground if they saw it in front of them. If he loses the election I think we will find out how wealthy he actually is at this time. You might be right and i might be wrong, but we shall see.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Entrenched bureaucracy. A group of like minded individuals of both parties that despise Trump because he's not a player of their games. They love profitable wars, Chinese manufacturing profits and crony capitalism, the very essence of government by highest bidder.
Trump cut out a slice of their pie...I feel so sorry for them. You?

If you do, vote for Joe. He is, and has been one of them for many years.

Or do they just not exist?

They don't exist, it is just a made up excuse Trump makes when he doesn't get what he wants 100% of the time.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Why would Trump sell out? He has more money than he can spend.

You can't be serious; but, I told you in my first response: "Donald John Trump, with the help of Barr, McConnell, Jordan and the like, is just the glib ego-maniac they've (they being the plutocrats) been looking for."

 

[Grandpappy]

You can't be serious; but, I told you in my first response: "Donald John Trump, with the help of Barr, McConnell, Jordan and the like, is just the glib ego-maniac they've (they being the plutocrats) been looking for."

He's currently worth a little over $2 billion. Being president has cost him a lot.

 

[Irwin Corey]

He's currently worth a little over $2 billion. Being president has cost him a lot.

So HE says (has he ever told the truth about anything); but it's not about money; it's all ego. What more do you want after you've got ALL the money you can spend ... POWER!!!!!!.

 

[armycowboy]

He's currently worth a little over $2 billion. Being president has cost him a lot.

When Forbes does their list, they don't account for debt. With that said, it is pretty amusing that his net worth is tanking, considering his run for president was about increasing his brand.