msf said:
Your answers are just about what I expected. As to being one of millions of women who are independent thinkers, you're so right. That's why Roe versus Wade gave us freedom over our own bodies. What is the difference between holding a women captive in her own body and incarceration without just cause?
No, Roe versus Wade did nothing but give the freedom over destroying your child's body. Although, the problem lies in that you want absolute freedom to do whatever you want with your body, regardless of who else it hurts. And no one should have that right. If I choose to take my hand with a knife in it and run it into someone because they are in my way, then I am going to be charged with murder. The problem is that what these women want to do with "their body" isn't actually doing anything to their body. What they are doing is hurting another soul through what they do to their bodies. If they want to hurt themselves, that is a tragic and unnecessary thing. But it is not necesarly illegal. However, once that child is in your body, you are acting for two.
As for the difference between a miscarriage and an abortion, The point was that I saw fetuses in the first trimester and they were not babies
I thought that even you could figure that out.
Okay, so in other words, because you saw a baby in the first trimester, you out of your expert opinion decided that they were not human therefore have no right to live? That is like me looking at a mentally retarded person and saying they are not human because they don't look like your average person, therefore, they are not a person.
Do I believe that abortion should be used as a form of contraception? Of course not! But most anti abortionists are also against the pill, condoms, or any form of protection against an unwanted pregnancy.
Sorry, your argument doesn't hold water here. I am not against any of those, and neither are the vast majority of people I know that I have discussed this matter with. So though that may be your opinion of people who are against abortion, that is not the reality of the situation.
What you're really saying is that all females should be virgins until such time as they decide to have a child. Or more to the point their husbands deciding this. That is both unrealistic and chauvinistic.
I am not saying that. I am saying that they should not commit an action designed by nature to have a consequence that they are not prepared to deal with. If you are not ready to accept the consequences of being burned, then simply do not play with fire. The problem I have is not that so many young people want to have sex, but that they ignore the consequences of that action. They want to be able to commit any act they like without their being any consequence to that action. And that simply is not the way the world is set up. If you are going to have sex, be prepared to deal with a pregnancy. Since I believe abortion is murder, then be prepared to put a child up for an adoption. That is neither unrealistic nor is it chauvanistic. Asking someone to take control of their own actions is not unrealistic and it is not chauvanistic.
I, as an American and as a women am responsible for my own actions to myself & my higher power. I have no right to infringe my beliefs and prejudices on another human being, nor should I ask the government to act as ones reproductive police! I notice that my last statement was ignored in your response.
"If one is against abortion one shouldn't have one". That was precisely my point. I would never disallow anyone from having a child. Why then, do you think you or others of your ilk have the right to tell a women she must have one. Have you ever been pregnant? Have you ever been in a position to have to make that decision? Have you ever known the heartbreak one goes through reaching that decision?
Yes, you are responsible for your own decisions. That is why you should choose wisely the actions before you commit them. And I assure you, I have no desire to infringe my beliefs on other people. You are free to believe in whatever or however you like. But, it is the government's job to protect human life. And THAT, is what needs to come to an end. The deletion of a human life because a woman feels it is her right to do so. It is not a matter of taking rights away from anyone. It is a matter of restoring rights to those without voices. Your comparison of "taking away rights from women" is equivalent to taking away rights of slave owners in freeing slaves.
I personally have part of a pregnancy that was terminated. I watched as she was influenced by her mother to have the abortion. I watched as she later tore herself apart out of regret that she had had the abortion. I personally felt the heartbreak of knowing that my child, a child that I wanted to take care of, was taken away from me to hide from the shame of an unnexcepting world. Do not preach to me about all of this. I have been through all of it. And you have no idea how much I wish that decision had been different. How much we both regret what we did at that young age. You have no idea how highly I respect a friend of mine who, despite the social and stressful consequences has decided to keep her child with her one-day-old husband, despite the fact that she is still in school and her family is strict southern bapstists who dissaprove of pre-marital sex. She has chosen a path that I wish my ex and I had the courage and the responsibilty to do.
You make these outlandish statements based on nothing but your own prejudices. Liberals are sick? I'm sure many of them are. But that's up to their doctors (if it's physical) or psychiatrists(if it's mental or emotional) to decide. Certainly not you, sitting up in your ivory tower telling everyone how to live their lives!
To be prejudice one must be unaware of the facts. That I am not. And I have personally never said a liberal is sick. I agree with you in that some are but most are not. In fact, I, in many circles, am quite liberal in a great number of my beliefs. And I certainly have never begun to tell anyone how to live their lives. I know where my place is, and I continue in it. However, to suggest that I have no right to tell someone that they have no right to murder someone else... to tell me that my voice doesn't matter when it comes to what should or should not be done to another human being, in that case you are wrong. My voice is just as important as yours. I do indeed have the right and calling to speak out against human injustice, and that is what I am doing in this matter.
Please don't come back with some sorry rational about crime or such. A women making a decision about her own body and future is quite different than say, those lunatics hitting the twin towers, or husband murdering their wives.
It is, as long as it is just her body she is affecting. But the reality is she is not just affecting her body and future, but the body and future of a child as well. And that is where the problem comes. The problem with this selfish line of thinking is that no one lives as an island. Your choices to your body affect everyone around you. And so to say that whatever you want to do with your body and your life is yours to decide without any consequence outside of that, is foolishness.
I am not stating that all men want to keep women under lock and key. You have the lock on that black and white thinking, not me.
I do believe that some things are in black and white. Some things are as easy as right or wrong. I do not believe that abortion is always one of them. I do believe that there are perhaps appropriate times for an abortion (especially in the case of the life and health of a mother), but that makes up less than 5 percent of abortions. That should be the rule, not the exception. But to the contrary, in your feministic agenda, you do make this into a suppression issue, and that is false logic, because at least half of the aborted fetuses are female as well. So really, you have females killing females. I personally can't think of anything more suppresive than killing someone.
Finally, I am not pro abortion, I'm pro choice. I feel that only under the most emotional or physical duress is an abortion warranted.
I'm sorry, but I simply don't believe you. That is the same as saying that birth control is only used under emotional and physical duress, and that is simply not true. Women get abortions when they simply don't feel like dealing with a child at that point in time. That is unexcusable.
. I'm past the age of reproduction (and have had five children) so no one can accuse me of being self serving. I firmly believe that if one is against abortion, they shouldn't have one.
