liberal conservative real life comparison

[ksu_aviator]

You don't seriously think this can be used to support a political philosophy do you? You have two able bodied children who were probably raised by capable parents and had a minor set back in a very safe environment, and I would guess that if there was any blood or real fear present for either of these kids you would have been the first one there. This is not a reflection of real world conditions.

What world were they in then?

I think you missed the point all together. The point was not whether or not help should ever be given, but whether or not it was truly needed.

In our society, the government is to eager to help. So much so that many people in the US have followed the same evolutionary path as domesticated dogs. If you put a domestic dog on a leash tied to a tree, the dog will wait for someone to come let them off the leash (in most cases). A wolf, on the other had, will immediately attempt to escape and won't stop trying until he gets away or dies. Some dogs will still attempt to escape, but will eventually give up if their attempts are not successful. This is what has happened in America. Our civilization has become so accustom to being helped with our problems that a large segment of the population just doesn't try. We need more wolves.

 

[shrubnose]

There is no middle, it is an illusion. You are either to the right or to the left of this non existent middle ground,

try to stand on it and you will find nothing is there to stand on

. The middle is a vortex, a chasm a black hole even.

Who is trying to stand on it? Not me, That's your idea.




"Better days are coming." ~ But not for today's out of touch, running out of time, GOP.

 

[shrubnose]

My kid, the five year old, was hungry the other day.

I gave him a musket and a flint and steel and sent him out into the woods.

He came back empty handed and hungry, but he learned an important lesson, that I can be a real dick

.

Fifty years from now, whens he's living by himself in the mountains of New Guinea, he look back on that and thank you.

 

[Gathomas88]

I don't know too many "flaming" Liberals in my day to day life. My friends and I try to make a conscious effort to keep that kind of thing more or less in the background when we hang out simply because it's no fun to have someone constantly preaching at you while you're trying to unwind.

However, I have noticed that, on those rare occasions where I do spend a lot of time hanging around outspoken ideological Leftists, their way of thinking often seems to be fundamentally alien to my own in a lot of ways.

They just generally seem to be a lot more "collectivistic" in their mindset, and they often come off as being absolutely obsessed with "fairness" as a general concept.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

They could have been shown how to fix the handle bars, if it was just out of alignment with the front wheel, showing them how to fix it, would have been the way to do it

They are taught a valuable skill, and they don't waste a lot of time having to go back and get an bike that potentially could have been fixed in 5 minutes

 

[molten_dragon]

I lean a bit right while my wife leans a bit left and this became evident in a real life situation that sums up the difference. We were staying at a campground recently sitting around having drinks in the evening and watching kids play in a grassy area across from us. Two little kids came riding down the road on bicycles, the littlest one could barely ride his tiny bike. The older brother veered off into the rough grassy area and little brother tried to follow but immediately crashed. Big brother lept off his bike to help and picked the little one up saying" quit crying, you're not going to die." My lib wife wanted to go help but I stopped her, the kid was fine. Then the kids discovered the crash had twisted the handlebars and the bike could not be ridden so they were in a quandary as to what to do, the little kid was to small to carry his broken bike. My lib wife says "lets go help", I said they are figuring it out. Soon they devised a plan, they left the broken bike and big brother pushed his bike while escorting still sobbing little brother back to their campsite. Within minutes big brother came running back for the wrecked bike and carried it home. I turned to my lib wife and said "see, they figured this out on their own. They learned they were capable of handling the situation without anybody's help. This was a growing experience for them and if we had helped the only lesson they would have learned was when you get in trouble just sit there and wait for someone to help you". She had to admit I was right. THE END

Gikesl are astupid. Get a car.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Here's an anecdote:
I was driving past a spongy meadow on a secondary road, when I saw a bunch of people pushing, or at least trying to push, a stuck vehicle out of the meadow and back on the road.
Now, anyone with half a brain knows you don't drive on mountain meadows for a variety of reasons.

I drove past them, not offering to help, muttering, "what a bunch of idiots!"

Does that make me a conservative?

 

[Goshin]

I lean a bit right while my wife leans a bit left and this became evident in a real life situation that sums up the difference. We were staying at a campground recently sitting around having drinks in the evening and watching kids play in a grassy area across from us. Two little kids came riding down the road on bicycles, the littlest one could barely ride his tiny bike. The older brother veered off into the rough grassy area and little brother tried to follow but immediately crashed. Big brother lept off his bike to help and picked the little one up saying" quit crying, you're not going to die." My lib wife wanted to go help but I stopped her, the kid was fine. Then the kids discovered the crash had twisted the handlebars and the bike could not be ridden so they were in a quandary as to what to do, the little kid was to small to carry his broken bike. My lib wife says "lets go help", I said they are figuring it out. Soon they devised a plan, they left the broken bike and big brother pushed his bike while escorting still sobbing little brother back to their campsite. Within minutes big brother came running back for the wrecked bike and carried it home. I turned to my lib wife and said "see, they figured this out on their own. They learned they were capable of handling the situation without anybody's help. This was a growing experience for them and if we had helped the only lesson they would have learned was when you get in trouble just sit there and wait for someone to help you". She had to admit I was right. THE END

Cool story and a good point about children learning self-reliance... but I don't consider self-reliance to be so much a political ideology as a philosophy of empowerment that ought to be for everyone. There's nothing more satisfying or character-building than dealing with a problem on your own, and if you can you should... but it is also true there are some things one person can't handle, some times when we all need help... the "no man is an island" thing.

The story itself is as much about family (the fundamental group-identity of most of humanity) as self-reliance anyway. The little boy didn't rely on himself; as you said he was too small to manage the bike alone. He relied on his brother, who even though he gave him a little bit of hard time about falling, came through in the end and got his little brother home and then retrieved the smaller boy's bike as well.

Sometimes we all need a little help.

It ought to be something like "all that you CAN do yourself, do.... when you run into CAN'T, look for a helping hand... family first, then neighbors and friends... community if necessary, higher only as a last resort." IMHO.


While I'm a firm believer in self-reliance and individual effort, it is a fact that there are things individual effort cannot accomplish... like the Internet we're conversing on...


Now of course we could get into a lot of nitty gritty detail, like the free-rider problem and those who don't try hard enough before hollering help, but I reckon we covered the general idea.

 

[imagep]

No offense but I don't believe you. I would have to physically restrain you from rushing over to help.

Just like a conservative, trying to take away someone else's rights.

 

[imagep]

Here's an anecdote:
I was driving past a spongy meadow on a secondary road, when I saw a bunch of people pushing, or at least trying to push, a stuck vehicle out of the meadow and back on the road.
Now, anyone with half a brain knows you don't drive on mountain meadows for a variety of reasons.

I drove past them, not offering to help, muttering, "what a bunch of idiots!"

Does that make me a conservative?

Yea, pretty much, and it makes you an arsehole also. So are you implying that sawyerlogginon's kids are "idiots", or are you just implying that sawyerlogginon is an arsehole?

 

[imagep]

They could have been shown how to fix the handle bars, if it was just out of alignment with the front wheel, showing them how to fix it, would have been the way to do it

They are taught a valuable skill, and they don't waste a lot of time having to go back and get an bike that potentially could have been fixed in 5 minutes

Yes, that would have been more practical, but to a conservative, it wouldn't have been "fair" (whatever that means).

 

[imagep]

Conservative in denial....

here is why conservatives don't get in de nile...

 

[tech30528]

Pfffft. We shoot those things with 22s.

 

[FederalRepublic]

They could have been shown how to fix the handle bars, if it was just out of alignment with the front wheel, showing them how to fix it, would have been the way to do it

They are taught a valuable skill, and they don't waste a lot of time having to go back and get an bike that potentially could have been fixed in 5 minutes

Or they could take a couple of hours and figure it out themselves, and they'd learn something much more important that how to straighten handlebars on a bicycle.

 

[FederalRepublic]

here is why conservatives don't get in de nile...

Betsy gets a bit cranky sometimes, but she'd never eat a conservative.

 

[sangha]

What world were they in then?

I think you missed the point all together. The point was not whether or not help should ever be given, but whether or not it was truly needed.

In our society, the government is to eager to help. So much so that many people in the US have followed the same evolutionary path as domesticated dogs. If you put a domestic dog on a leash tied to a tree, the dog will wait for someone to come let them off the leash (in most cases).

Nonsense. As an amateur dog trainer with experience training scores of puppies I can say with certitude that in about 90% of the cases, a dog will fight the leash (and the collar) the first time it is used on them. Dogs have to be trained to accept the leash and collar

 

[trfjr]

I heard a story about a guy who was in a hot air balloon. He was lost and he lowered his altitude. He spotted a man down below and descended a bit more and then called out to him. He said, “Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I’d meet him an hour ago, and I don’t know where I am.” The man on the ground consulted his GPS and replied, “You’re in a hot air balloon approximately 30 feet above ground elevation at 2,346 feet above sea level. You are 31 degrees, 14 minutes north latitude; 100 degrees, 49 minutes west longitude,” and the guy in the balloon said, “You must be a conservative,” and he said, “I am. How did you know that?” He said, well, “Everything you told me is technically correct but I have no idea what to make of your information. The fact is I’m still lost -- and frankly, you haven’t been very much help so far.” The guy on the ground yelled up: “You must be a liberal.” He said, “I am. How did you know that?” He said, “Well, you don’t know where you’re going or where you’ve been, you’ve risen to where you are on hot air. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep. You expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you’re in the same place you were before we met and now it’s my fault!”

 

[Rod Knox]

It's amazing how convoluted a man can make a tale to rationalize his laziness and lack of concern.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Nonsense. As an amateur dog trainer with experience training scores of puppies I can say with certitude that in about 90% of the cases, a dog will fight the leash (and the collar) the first time it is used on them. Dogs have to be trained to accept the leash and collar

Thank you for reaffirming my point????

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Or they could take a couple of hours and figure it out themselves, and they'd learn something much more important that how to straighten handlebars on a bicycle.

That is what I suggested someone show them

Why waste time,

Did you learn physics by yourself or did you have someone teach you]

 

[sangha]

I heard a story about a guy who was in a hot air balloon. He was lost and he lowered his altitude. He spotted a man down below and descended a bit more and then called out to him. He said, “Excuse me, can you help me? I promised a friend I’d meet him an hour ago, and I don’t know where I am.” The man on the ground consulted his GPS and replied, “You’re in a hot air balloon approximately 30 feet above ground elevation at 2,346 feet above sea level. You are 31 degrees, 14 minutes north latitude; 100 degrees, 49 minutes west longitude,” and the guy in the balloon said, “You must be a conservative,” and he said, “I am. How did you know that?” He said, well, “Everything you told me is technically correct but I have no idea what to make of your information. The fact is I’m still lost -- and frankly, you haven’t been very much help so far.” The guy on the ground yelled up: “You must be a liberal.” He said, “I am. How did you know that?” He said, “Well, you don’t know where you’re going or where you’ve been, you’ve risen to where you are on hot air. You made a promise which you have no idea how to keep. You expect me to solve your problem. The fact is you’re in the same place you were before we met and now it’s my fault!”

The funniest thing about that joke is that you switched who was the liberal and who was the conservative.

 

[sangha]

Thank you for reaffirming my point????

Yes, your facts were wrong, and somehow that confirms your point! :screwy

 

[ksu_aviator]

Yes, your facts were wrong, and somehow that confirms your point! :screwy

No, you said the exact same thing I said.

 

[sangha]

No, you said the exact same thing I said.

:doh:

 

[FederalRepublic]

That is what I suggested someone show them

Why waste time,

Did you learn physics by yourself or did you have someone teach you]

The time isn't wasted if you learn a valuable lesson. I'm not talking about learning how to straighten the handlebars on a bicycle, or physics. I'm talking about a real life lesson in problem solving. It's a lesson that everyone needs to learn and people like you prevent others from learning it in the name of helping them and/or "not wasting time".