Libby Fingers His Superiors (1 Viewer)

[Stinger]

Post a quote/link..

And after you do, explain why Prosecutor Fitzgerald actually said she was covert in the text of the Libby indictments? I mean, in official federal court papers indicting a hgih ranking federal official, the federal prosecutor note with certainty that Plame, a federal agent, was in covert status, according to federal law.

Before he does that how about you explain exactly where in the indictment Fitzgerald declares that Plame was at the time of the discloser or during that last 5 years she was an acting covert agent. I just searched the whle thing and nowhere does he say anything of the sort.

 

[aps]

Before he does that how about you explain exactly where in the indictment Fitzgerald declares that Plame was at the time of the discloser or during that last 5 years she was an acting covert agent. I just searched the whle thing and nowhere does he say anything of the sort.

I agree, Stinger. He is silent as to that issue, but it goes both ways. He doesn't say she is covert AND he doesn't say she is NOT covert.

 

[danarhea]

Before he does that how about you explain exactly where in the indictment Fitzgerald declares that Plame was at the time of the discloser or during that last 5 years she was an acting covert agent. I just searched the whle thing and nowhere does he say anything of the sort.

Of course, this investigation is so big and has generated so much material, that to put it all in one article would be impossible. The article I linked to, and that you said you looked through, only refers to a single aspect of the case, that is, Libby fingering his superiors.

What did you do? Tell everyone you searched the whole article and could not find anything that addressed the fact that Plame was a covert operative. Kind of dishonest, dont you think? If you wanted to show some honesty, you would have called everyone's attention to this article, that details documents which state that not only was Plame covert, but that she had been in the field, searching for WMD's for the last 5 years before she was outed, and that the CIA was making specific moves to keep her identity concealed. But again, like most of the Bushevik supporters, you keep repeating the same old lies. Sorry, but that dog dont hunt no more.

 

[Stinger]

Libertarians quote "And after you do, explain why Prosecutor Fitzgerald actually said she was covert in the text of the Libby indictments? I mean, in official federal court papers indicting a hgih ranking federal official, the federal prosecutor note with certainty that Plame, a federal agent, was in covert status, according to federal law."

I agree, Stinger. He is silent as to that issue, but it goes both ways. He doesn't say she is covert AND he doesn't say she is NOT covert.

No it doesn't go both ways. And read the statement the original poster said, he made a statement of fact "with certainty) and it is absolutely false. Fitzgerald does say her position was classified (well that applies to most anaylist at the CIA who are NOT covert) so he does address her position at the CIA. He was investigating whether the name of a COVERT operative was leaked and he has made no statement that it was and there is no evidence that she was. I think it is reasonable to assume that since he did not charge anyone with leaking the name of a covert agent that there is no evicence she was covert since he does no several people leak her name. So the statement that was made that Fitzgerald said she was, with "certainity" is incorrect and there plenty of evidence she was not.

 

[aps]

Libertarians quote "And after you do, explain why Prosecutor Fitzgerald actually said she was covert in the text of the Libby indictments? I mean, in official federal court papers indicting a hgih ranking federal official, the federal prosecutor note with certainty that Plame, a federal agent, was in covert status, according to federal law."



No it doesn't go both ways. And read the statement the original poster said, he made a statement of fact "with certainty) and it is absolutely false. Fitzgerald does say her position was classified (well that applies to most anaylist at the CIA who are NOT covert) so he does address her position at the CIA. He was investigating whether the name of a COVERT operative was leaked and he has made no statement that it was and there is no evidence that she was. I think it is reasonable to assume that since he did not charge anyone with leaking the name of a covert agent that there is no evicence she was covert since he does no several people leak her name. So the statement that was made that Fitzgerald said she was, with "certainity" is incorrect and there plenty of evidence she was not.

Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. I agree with you. :shock: To say that Fitzgerald said that Plame was covert in the indictment is false. He never said that.

 

[Stinger]

Of course, this investigation is so big and has generated so much material, that to put it all in one article would be impossible. The article I linked to, and that you said you looked through, only refers to a single aspect of the case, that is, Libby fingering his superiors.

No it's no a really big investigation. And what I was specifically speaking to in this particular limb of the thread was liberatarians claim that Fitzgerald declared "with certainty" that Plame was a covert agent. That is completely and utterly false. He does NOT say that in the indictment.

What did you do? Tell everyone you searched the whole article and could not find anything that addressed the fact that Plame was a covert operative.

I searched the entire Libby indictment and no where does Fitzgerald declare in it as the poster said that Plame was operating covert.

Kind of dishonest, dont you think? If you wanted to show some honesty, you would have called everyone's attention to this article,

I think YOU need to go and reread my post and what I was specifically referring to the indictment else YOUR post is the on that is not honest. Now you are claiming I should have known yesterday about an article that came out today. And how was I to do that. And the evidence in that is "according to newly released portions of a judge's opinion." Well let's see the evidence not just the judge's opinion. But as far as the indictment it is not in there.

that details documents which state that not only was Plame covert, but that she had been in the field, searching for WMD's for the last 5 years before she was outed, and that the CIA was making specific moves to keep her identity concealed. But again, like most of the Bushevik supporters, you keep repeating the same old lies. Sorry, but that dog dont hunt no more.

There are no details so far. If they do appear and they are found to be true then we will deal with it.

 

[Stinger]

Oh, okay. I see what you're saying. I agree with you. :shock: To say that Fitzgerald said that Plame was covert in the indictment is false. He never said that.

And as Dana has noted MSNBC is reporting TODAY that papers filed in court show she may have been covert at sometime during the last 5 years. I await release of the evidence and am curious why Fitzgerald when specifically asked during his press conference refused to answer and did not address it in his indictment.

 

[libertarian_knight]

Before he does that how about you explain exactly where in the indictment Fitzgerald declares that Plame was at the time of the discloser or during that last 5 years she was an acting covert agent. I just searched the whle thing and nowhere does he say anything of the sort.

searched? why not read it?

"f. Joseph Wilson was married to Valerie Plame Wilson ("Valerie Wilson"). At all relevant times from January 1, 2002 through July 2003, Valerie Wilson was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified. Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson's affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community."

50 USC 421 regards a person as "covert" if the relationship between the person and the US government is Classified. Furthermore, even IF Plame was not "covert" as some have argued, her relationship with the US government was STILL classified information, and violates the Security Clearance contract Libby signed also.

 

[aps]

And as Dana has noted MSNBC is reporting TODAY that papers filed in court show she may have been covert at sometime during the last 5 years. I await release of the evidence and am curious why Fitzgerald when specifically asked during his press conference refused to answer and did not address it in his indictment.

I saw that too, but he did not state in the indictment that she was covert.

 

[libertarian_knight]

Libertarians quote "And after you do, explain why Prosecutor Fitzgerald actually said she was covert in the text of the Libby indictments? I mean, in official federal court papers indicting a hgih ranking federal official, the federal prosecutor note with certainty that Plame, a federal agent, was in covert status, according to federal law."



No it doesn't go both ways. And read the statement the original poster said, he made a statement of fact "with certainty) and it is absolutely false. Fitzgerald does say her position was classified (well that applies to most anaylist at the CIA who are NOT covert) so he does address her position at the CIA. He was investigating whether the name of a COVERT operative was leaked and he has made no statement that it was and there is no evidence that she was. I think it is reasonable to assume that since he did not charge anyone with leaking the name of a covert agent that there is no evicence she was covert since he does no several people leak her name. So the statement that was made that Fitzgerald said she was, with "certainity" is incorrect and there plenty of evidence she was not.

You do understand, that unless fitzgerald was pretty certain about the covert status of Plame, that the Investigation into violationg 50 USC 421 would have ceased immediately.

Furthermore, there were memos released that refered to plame as STILL having a classified relationship, indicating that even disclosure of her covert status is against the law, until the US government decides otherwise.

Furthermore, do NOT forget, the investigation is STILL being conducted, and libby and others may be further changed, with more detail, regarding the violation of 50 USC 421.

 

[libertarian_knight]

And as Dana has noted MSNBC is reporting TODAY that papers filed in court show she may have been covert at sometime during the last 5 years. I await release of the evidence and am curious why Fitzgerald when specifically asked during his press conference refused to answer and did not address it in his indictment.

Becuase he would have been violating the law.

 

[Stinger]

I saw that too, but he did not state in the indictment that she was covert.

And further to what Newsweek (the folks who brought us the Koran in the toliet lie) here is a more complete analysis.

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"In these newly-released appeal documents Fitzgerald contradicts the claims he made on January 23, 2006 to Libby’s counsel that Plame’s status and history at the CIA as well as the harm to national security were not material to the charges in the indictment. When he sought Miller’s testimony, he made representations to the effect that Plame was within the reach of the IIPA (Agee Act). Here is what Judge Tatel wrote:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“As to the leaks’ harmfulness, although the record omits specifics about Plame’s work, it appears to confirm, as alleged in the public record and reported in the press, that she worked for the CIA in some unusual capacity relating to counterproliferation. Addressing deficiencies of proof regarding the Intelligence Identities Protection Act, the special counsel refers to Plame as “a person whose identity the CIA was making specific efforts to conceal and who had carried out covert work overseas within the last 5 years”—representations I trust the special counsel would not make without support. (8/27/04 Aff. at 28 n.15.) In addition, Libby said that Plame worked in the CIA’s counterproliferation division” (I-53-55, 245- 46, p.80) [emphasis added][/FONT]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The proof for Fitz’s claim is not clear. The judge only refers to an affidavit by Fitzgerald. The only reference I can see in the affdavit that sheds a clue as to what Judge Tatel was referring to above appears at footnote 15, p. 28 of this affidavit."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]http://www.realclearpolitics.com/Commentary/com-2_5_06_CF.html
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The Judge "trust the special counsel"? Well this also appears in the same article[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
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[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"In Exhibit C of the responses to discovery requests by Libby, the Special Prosecutor indicates only four reporters were questioned: Woodward, Miller, Cooper and Novak. Many more knew that Plame was engaged by the CIA – and have said so – and were never questioned.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]One journalist, Mr. Dickerson, is specifically mentioned by Fitz as having learned of this, but the Fitzgerald letter indicates that he learned of that in Africa after July 11, 2003. Perhaps that was an interview by long distance mind reading rays, because Mr. Dickerson denied ever being questioned by Fitzgerald.[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]He told Raw Story:[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“I didn’t know I was mentioned in the court filings until I saw it on the web,” he said. “I’ve never been contacted by anyone in Fitzgerald’s office.” (Hat tip: Just One Minute)"[/FONT]

​

Hmmm one of the prosecutors witnesses says he was never interviewed?



And what other evidence does Fitzgerald present to support a claim that she was covert.



"[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]“Most telling of all, Harlow, the CIA spokesperson, though confirming Plame’s employment, asked Novak to withhold her name, stating that ‘although it is very unlikely that she will ever be on another overseas mission . . . it might be embarrassing if she goes on foreign travel on her own’ (II-168-69), a statement that strongly implies Plame was covert at least at some point. While another case might require more specific evidence that a leak harmed national security, this showing suffices here, given the information’s extremely slight news value and the lack of any serious dispute regarding Plame’s employment.”"[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]
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Strongly implies?

The article cites many other problems with Fitzgerald's case even in light of the new releases. Interesting reading.

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif][/FONT]​

 

[Stinger]

Becuase he would have been violating the law.

How, that is no the reason he gave during the press conference nor anywhere else I can find. Where does he state that? If you are going to claim that he would have therefore been exposing her, she was already exposed as at the least having once been a covert operative but no longer. Once her cover was blown, which there is ample evidence it was blown before her husband ever went on his trip.

 

[libertarian_knight]

How, that is no the reason he gave during the press conference nor anywhere else I can find. Where does he state that? If you are going to claim that he would have therefore been exposing her, she was already exposed as at the least having once been a covert operative but no longer. Once her cover was blown, which there is ample evidence it was blown before her husband ever went on his trip.

The law doesn't really care "if her cover was blown." The fact, if she was a covert agent" would be that discussing the extend of her covertness would violate the law still, and as may even being the case (at the time) when he made his statements.

Remember the investigation is STILL being conducted.

 

[Stinger]

The law doesn't really care "if her cover was blown."

Yes it does.

The fact, if she was a covert agent" would be that discussing the extend of her covertness would violate the law still, and as may even being the case (at the time) when he made his statements.

Her status was blown already she is/was no longer covert. We ALL know she worked at the CIA now and at some point covert.

Remember the investigation is STILL being conducted.

Into perjury and obstruction of justice. Fitzgerald has already told Libby and Rove that they are not the subject of an investigation concerning the status of Plame at the CIA.

 

[easyt65]

Plame was NOT a covert agent, as she did not fit the definition of being such, as you mentioned about the 5 years; however, he did mention that her identity as a CIA operative was being treated as classified information.

MY question is: Why aren't any of the reporters in Jail or on trial? If the information was classified, just because someone may have discussed classified doesn't give them the right to report it, especially if they know it is classified. The message needs to go out that reporters CAN report anything they get their hands on but that there WILL be a cost to pay for it.

Same thing with the Bush Wiretap issue - why isn't the person who leaked the classified operation against Al Qaeda in jail or on trial right now? One of our strongest programs to fight terrorists has been exposed, weakening this nation in the fight against terror, and the reporters who leaked this are walking around without a care in the world! THAT is wrong!