• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

LGBTQ "Appeasement"

Acadia

DP Veteran
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
18,956
Reaction score
12,851
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Private
I'm hoping to hear your thoughts about how we as a society are punishing people for "sins" of the past, namely, having used gay slurs. I wonder how the LGBTQ community feels about what is happening in their name. Hearing that Kevin Hart was forced to step down from hosting the Oscars makes me wonder what the point of this exercise is. Should people really be losing jobs? Gigs?

Recently, a Virginia high school teacher was fired because he refused to use a gender pronoun. He wanted to reach some compromise and call the student by her new name, just not use a pronoun. Is that really grounds for firing?

A very liberal Canadian feminist, Meghan Murphy, had her Twitter account closed down because she said "men aren't women". This his hate speech nowadays?

I don't know that I'd be comfortable having these negative, even damaging things happen in my name. If someone said a slur many years ago, should we be punishing them now? Even when they don't stand by what they said anymore?

Should we follow Canada and compel speech?



Before anyone make assumptions, I am supportive of the gay community and have been pro-gay marriage for many years now. I would recognize a trans person's preferred name and pronoun and regard them as the gender they identify with, however, I will never us plurals, nor will I use "ze".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts...announced-oscars-host/?utm_term=.98ecf8c06dac
https://www.richmond.com/news/virgi...cle_65be1826-50b2-5d38-be58-47d9b9480917.html
https://thefederalist.com/2018/11/25/twitter-permanently-bans-feminist-writing-men-arent-women/
 
I think it sort of depends on what the message was when the slur was originally used. Context does matter.

People should also be given the chance to explain that what they said in the past isn't necessarily a reflection of how they feel and what they understand now, and the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences certainly gave Hart that chance.
 
Last edited:
The teacher in the article appeared to have a personal axe to grind. He created an unnecessary and entirely avoidable uncomfortable situation for the student. He took a stand in the face of the school board's orders to just use the male gender pronoun to refer to the student, and as is often the case when one takes a stand like that, one also risks losing one's job. The teacher clearly felt that the pronoun issue was important enough to him to walk out. That is, of course, entirely his prerogative.
 
I'm hoping to hear your thoughts about how we as a society are punishing people for "sins" of the past, namely, having used gay slurs. I wonder how the LGBTQ community feels about what is happening in their name. Hearing that Kevin Hart was forced to step down from hosting the Oscars makes me wonder what the point of this exercise is. Should people really be losing jobs? Gigs?

Recently, a Virginia high school teacher was fired because he refused to use a gender pronoun. He wanted to reach some compromise and call the student by her new name, just not use a pronoun. Is that really grounds for firing?

A very liberal Canadian feminist, Meghan Murphy, had her Twitter account closed down because she said "men aren't women". This his hate speech nowadays?

I don't know that I'd be comfortable having these negative, even damaging things happen in my name. If someone said a slur many years ago, should we be punishing them now? Even when they don't stand by what they said anymore?

Should we follow Canada and compel speech?



Before anyone make assumptions, I am supportive of the gay community and have been pro-gay marriage for many years now. I would recognize a trans person's preferred name and pronoun and regard them as the gender they identify with, however, I will never us plurals, nor will I use "ze".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts...announced-oscars-host/?utm_term=.98ecf8c06dac
https://www.richmond.com/news/virgi...cle_65be1826-50b2-5d38-be58-47d9b9480917.html
https://thefederalist.com/2018/11/25/twitter-permanently-bans-feminist-writing-men-arent-women/

I disagree with the premise that Hart’s departure from hosting the Academy Awards happened “in the name of the LGBTQ community”. It was because society as a whole is diminished by anti-LGBTQ slurs. As for Hart, he was forced to step down not because of past comments, but because he refused to publicly apologize for them. He says that he has already made public amends for it in the past and wasn’t willing to be shamed again, and I respect that.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ho.../kevin-hart-steps-down-as-oscars-host-1167336

The high school teacher’s firing was unfortunate, but was entirely of his own doing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pb...d-for-refusing-to-use-trans-students-pronouns
 
I disagree with the premise that Hart’s departure from hosting the Academy Awards happened “in the name of the LGBTQ community”. It was because society as a whole is diminished by anti-LGBTQ slurs. As for Hart, he was forced to step down not because of past comments, but because he refused to publicly apologize for them. He says that he has already made public amends for it in the past and wasn’t willing to be shamed again, and I respect that.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.ho.../kevin-hart-steps-down-as-oscars-host-1167336

The high school teacher’s firing was unfortunate, but was entirely of his own doing.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pb...d-for-refusing-to-use-trans-students-pronouns

Do you really believe that if Hart apologized that he wouldn't have been forced to step down?

This is just shaming people and making them grovel. Hart said he's an almost 40 year old man and I respect the fact that he refused to capitulate to the usual public flogging from the PC police.
He made a good point. We're all guilty of saying things that are not so nice or tolerant, but we grow and learn. That's called being human.
 
The high school teacher attempted to compromise and meet halfway. I'm going to follow this case to see if he files a wrongful termination case. We need some case law which will hopefully stop the compelling of language.
 
Do you really believe that if Hart apologized that he wouldn't have been forced to step down?

I do.

This is just shaming people and making them grovel. Hart said he's an almost 40 year old man and I respect the fact that he refused to capitulate to the usual public flogging from the PC police.
He made a good point. We're all guilty of saying things that are not so nice or tolerant, but we grow and learn. That's called being human.

A good number of us have used language in the past that wouldn't reflect well on us today. It's no big deal if an organization doesn't want somebody's behavior to reflect poorly on them and asks for a clarification or apology for that person's comments. If Hart had apologized then the Academy could have moved forward knowing that there would have been no imprimatur of homophobia attached to its image.
 
I'm hoping to hear your thoughts about how we as a society are punishing people for "sins" of the past, namely, having used gay slurs. I wonder how the LGBTQ community feels about what is happening in their name. Hearing that Kevin Hart was forced to step down from hosting the Oscars makes me wonder what the point of this exercise is. Should people really be losing jobs? Gigs?

Recently, a Virginia high school teacher was fired because he refused to use a gender pronoun. He wanted to reach some compromise and call the student by her new name, just not use a pronoun. Is that really grounds for firing?

A very liberal Canadian feminist, Meghan Murphy, had her Twitter account closed down because she said "men aren't women". This his hate speech nowadays?

I don't know that I'd be comfortable having these negative, even damaging things happen in my name. If someone said a slur many years ago, should we be punishing them now? Even when they don't stand by what they said anymore?

Should we follow Canada and compel speech?

Before anyone make assumptions, I am supportive of the gay community and have been pro-gay marriage for many years now. I would recognize a trans person's preferred name and pronoun and regard them as the gender they identify with, however, I will never us plurals, nor will I use "ze".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts...announced-oscars-host/?utm_term=.98ecf8c06dac
https://www.richmond.com/news/virgi...cle_65be1826-50b2-5d38-be58-47d9b9480917.html
https://thefederalist.com/2018/11/25/twitter-permanently-bans-feminist-writing-men-arent-women/

There was a good example of this today - with the Heisman winner being criticized for Tweets years ago.

In general, we should allow for and recognize as a good thing when people change their opinions, not punish them for once having had opinions with which we disagree. One of the biggest contributors to the current acceptance of LGBT is, IMO, that so many of us know an actual gay person. If you have family or friends who are gay, it's far more likely you'll conclude some version of, "You know, this person is like everyone else, but gay!" I don't think I was ever 'homophobic' but having a gay brother and spending years among his friends and in the gay community has had a huge effect on my views. That's good, it's growth, it's being an adult, to get beyond ignorant stereotypes. We shouldn't punish that.
 
The high school teacher attempted to compromise and meet halfway. I'm going to follow this case to see if he files a wrongful termination case. We need some case law which will hopefully stop the compelling of language.

Vlaming wasn't in a position to negotiate. It was either follow his superiors' orders or walk. Vlamer made a deliberate and conscious decision to choose the latter. Wrongful termination tends to involve a lack of due process, and I'm not seeing a lack of due process in the article.
 
I think we should consider the social norms of the time when judging the behavior and speech of someone. I don’t care how progressive you think you are. There are some things that you are doing today that will be socially repugnant decades from now.
 
Do you really believe that if Hart apologized that he wouldn't have been forced to step down?

This is just shaming people and making them grovel. Hart said he's an almost 40 year old man and I respect the fact that he refused to capitulate to the usual public flogging from the PC police.
He made a good point. We're all guilty of saying things that are not so nice or tolerant, but we grow and learn. That's called being human.
Do you really think the Academy hired Hart just so they could fire him? Makes zero sense.

I have no problem at all with Hart. Matter of fact, I even said that I respected his reasoning for not apologizing, again.
 
Do you really think the Academy hired Hart just so they could fire him? Makes zero sense.

I have no problem at all with Hart. Matter of fact, I even said that I respected his reasoning for not apologizing, again.

No, I think the Academy would have chosen to virtue signal. Once Hart's old tweets were found, his fate was sealed.

I just wonder if people in the lgbtq community might think about saying, "You know what, this is going to far and let's stop harshly punishing people".

With great power comes great responsibility. I'm beginning to think this power is being abused. We have to all figure out how to coexist.
 
No, I think the Academy would have chosen to virtue signal. Once Hart's old tweets were found, his fate was sealed.
“Virtue signal”? That’s a new one for me.

You are contradicting yourself. You say no, the Academy wouldn’t have fired Hart if he apologized and you’re saying that once his old tweets were found his fate was sealed. Which of those two opposite beliefs do you want to settle on?

BTW, Hart’s remarks are not new news. They were public knowledge well before the Academy offered him the gig.
 
“Virtue signal”? That’s a new one for me.

You are contradicting yourself. You say no, the Academy wouldn’t have fired Hart if he apologized and you’re saying that once his old tweets were found his fate was sealed. Which of those two opposite beliefs do you want to settle on?

BTW, Hart’s remarks are not new news. They were public knowledge well before the Academy offered him the gig.

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I think the Academy would have fired Hart if he donated a kidney. Once someone decided to trend his old quotes, it was over.
There are many comedians who have said WAY worse.
 
I'm hoping to hear your thoughts about how we as a society are punishing people for "sins" of the past, namely, having used gay slurs. I wonder how the LGBTQ community feels about what is happening in their name. Hearing that Kevin Hart was [, because of his past aspersive remarks re: homosexuality,] forced to step down from hosting the Oscars [, and his being obliged thus] makes me wonder what the point of this exercise is. Should people really be losing jobs? Gigs?

Recently, a Virginia high school teacher was fired because he refused to use a gender pronoun. He wanted to reach some compromise and call the student by her new name, just not use a pronoun. Is that really grounds for firing?

A very liberal Canadian feminist, Meghan Murphy, had her Twitter account closed down because she said "men aren't women". This his hate speech nowadays?

I don't know that I'd be comfortable having these negative, even damaging things happen in my name. If someone said a slur many years ago, should we be punishing them now? Even when they don't stand by what they said anymore?

Should we follow Canada and compel speech?

WaPo
Richmond
Federalist
Blue:
I don't speak for the LGBTQ community; my remarks don't deign to do so.

Red:
The matter about which you ask has several key dimensions:
  1. Are reprehensibility and probity existential?
    • My answer is "yes." A reprehensible or laudable act/utterance is so regardless of when it occurs.
  2. Should one be held accountable and given credit for, respectively, one's reprobate and rectitudinous behavior, and, of course, the im-/prudence effecting either?
    • My answer is "yes."
  3. If there be a limit to the accountability/credit, what is its nature, timing and extent?
    • My answer is "yes," but the examples you've offered in the OP neither approach nor surpass the limit.
    • If today I hold "Mark" accountable for or laud him for an act/utterance, my doing so doesn't obviate your or others doing so later. I realize the law doesn't work that way, but I'm not an organ or agent of the law. I have no issue respecting a legal judgment; however, legal judgments don't proscribe the ethical/moral judgment I may pass when a person enters my orbit.
  4. How much reprehensibility (moral/ethical and legal) are you willing to forbear among people whom you admit into your orbit?
    • My answer is "not much." To wit, nearly nothing Trump does meets with my ethical/moral standards, so regardless of whether he's found legally guilty of anything, he'll never obtain my general approbation; the best he can do is obtain an accolade for a specific act, but that's it. Put another way, I can "give the Devil his due," but he's still the Devil. (Note to the "peanut gallery": No, I'm not calling Trump the Devil.)
  5. What is the minimum degree of rectitude (moral/ethical and legal) you demand of folks whom you admit into your orbit?
    • My answer is "a lot." What's "a lot?" There's no "binary" or discrete measure I can give because it's the "sum" of many traits and behaviors. I can explain it only as it was explained to me in my formative years: it's clearly not perfection; however, it's more nearly perfect than it is more nearly imperfect as goes one's manifest character qualities and the balance among them.
As for your normative question about the relationship between the scope of consequences one must endure as a result of one's im-/prudence, well, that depends on the moral compass of the individual(s)/organization(s) who must choose whether to tacitly or expressly sanction one's prior deeds/words.


Pink:
It's grounds for firing if the school's policy required teacher to use the term s/he didn't use.


Tan:
Like it or not, Twitter is not subject to the legal constraints the 1st Amendment defines. No private entity or person is. If one is sufficiently aggrieved by Twitter's suspending Murhpy's account, impose on Twitter consequences concomitant with one's moral compass. For example, stop using it and/or implore others to do so, or impose a different (though lawful) consequence on Twitter. It may be inconvenient, but at times, one must decide whether one had rather live up to one's own bar or compromise oneself, one's ethical bar, to abet one's convenience.

Like it or not, having and applying standards also has consequences, one of which is that one's living up to one's own standards may inconvenience one.


Teal:
Well, yeah...


Green:
What speech is compulsory in Canada?
 
I'm hoping to hear your thoughts about how we as a society are punishing people for "sins" of the past, namely, having used gay slurs. I wonder how the LGBTQ community feels about what is happening in their name. Hearing that Kevin Hart was forced to step down from hosting the Oscars makes me wonder what the point of this exercise is. Should people really be losing jobs? Gigs?

Recently, a Virginia high school teacher was fired because he refused to use a gender pronoun. He wanted to reach some compromise and call the student by her new name, just not use a pronoun. Is that really grounds for firing?

A very liberal Canadian feminist, Meghan Murphy, had her Twitter account closed down because she said "men aren't women". This his hate speech nowadays?

I don't know that I'd be comfortable having these negative, even damaging things happen in my name. If someone said a slur many years ago, should we be punishing them now? Even when they don't stand by what they said anymore?

Should we follow Canada and compel speech?



Before anyone make assumptions, I am supportive of the gay community and have been pro-gay marriage for many years now. I would recognize a trans person's preferred name and pronoun and regard them as the gender they identify with, however, I will never us plurals, nor will I use "ze".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts...announced-oscars-host/?utm_term=.98ecf8c06dac
https://www.richmond.com/news/virgi...cle_65be1826-50b2-5d38-be58-47d9b9480917.html
https://thefederalist.com/2018/11/25/twitter-permanently-bans-feminist-writing-men-arent-women/

First to think that anyone who flies the banner LGBT represents all gay people of all lesbian people all bisexuals and all transgenders is like suggesting anyone who flies the banner of Christianity represents all Christians.

I honestly don't identify with LGBT I am a homosexual there is no h. To me my sexual identity doesn't really have anything to do with anything else but who I choose to have a partnership with.

People who have been activists under that label I've done some nasty things. And a lot of things I don't agree with. I am very forthcoming when such things happen. Then there are people who attack me for not towing the line. I'm willing to bet you either don't notice that or didn't know it was a thing.
 
Canada's bill c-16.
 
First to think that anyone who flies the banner LGBT represents all gay people of all lesbian people all bisexuals and all transgenders is like suggesting anyone who flies the banner of Christianity represents all Christians.

I honestly don't identify with LGBT I am a homosexual there is no h. To me my sexual identity doesn't really have anything to do with anything else but who I choose to have a partnership with.

People who have been activists under that label I've done some nasty things. And a lot of things I don't agree with. I am very forthcoming when such things happen. Then there are people who attack me for not towing the line. I'm willing to bet you either don't notice that or didn't know it was a thing.

What was a thing? Not towing the line? Of course I know that. My query is about getting the community to come to the middle regarding tolerance. Because, I think that's at the root of this displays of PC purity.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.
 
What was a thing? Not towing the line? Of course I know that. My query is about getting the community to come to the middle regarding tolerance. Because, I think that's at the root of this displays of PC purity.
Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts.

The idea that it is a Community is odd to me. It's a banner or a label at most.
 
“Virtue signal”? That’s a new one for me.

You are contradicting yourself. You say no, the Academy wouldn’t have fired Hart if he apologized and you’re saying that once his old tweets were found his fate was sealed. Which of those two opposite beliefs do you want to settle on?

BTW, Hart’s remarks are not new news. They were public knowledge well before the Academy offered him the gig.

In the mid-2010s, many users on internet forums and social media gave 'virtue-signalling' a pejorative sense when they denounced such empty acts of public commitment to unexceptionable good causes such as changing Facebook profile pictures to support a cause, participating in the Ice Bucket Challenge, offering thoughts and prayers after a tragedy, celebrity speeches during award shows, and politicians pandering to constituents on ideological issues.[9]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtue_signalling#Pejorative_usage
There are many in the public eye which are constantly virtue signaling, claiming some illusionary moral superiority, only later to be found out have done seriously questionable acts directly opposite of what they were virtual signaling for.

Virtue signaling and other inane platitudes - The Boston Globe
https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2015/12/24/virtue-signaling-and.../story.html

Dec 24, 2015 - Since the only thing people seem to like more than virtue signaling is judging other people, this term has caught on like, well, the ice bucket ...

The awful rise of 'virtue signalling' | The Spectator
https://www.spectator.co.uk › Features
Apr 18, 2015 - Mishal was 'virtue signalling' indirectly — indicating that she has the ... When she latergoes to a dinner party attended by other members of the ...Missing: caught ‎| ‎Must include: ‎caught

I invented 'virtue signalling'. Now it's taking over the ... - The Spectator
https://www.spectator.co.uk › Features
Oct 10, 2015 - Two days later, Helen Lewis used it in the New Statesman, saying 'a lot of what happens on Facebook, as with Twitter, is “virtue signalling” ...Missing: caught ‎| ‎Must include: ‎caught

'Virtue signalling' a poor and modern relation of political correctness
https://www.timeslive.co.za/.../2018-01-31-virtue-signalling-a-poor-and-modern-relati...
Jan 31, 2018 - Because unlike the latter‚ these days you can signal your virtue by ... was surely 'captured' to use our voguish term of art for corruption pedlars.

Frankly, with all the sexual harassment reported in entertainment media and news media, anytime any of these people pull their moral superiority shtick, I just laugh at them and discount everything they've just said. This, as well as the excessive PC BS, simply just need to go never to return, never to be seen or heard again.
 
I'm hoping to hear your thoughts about how we as a society are punishing people for "sins" of the past, namely, having used gay slurs. I wonder how the LGBTQ community feels about what is happening in their name. Hearing that Kevin Hart was forced to step down from hosting the Oscars makes me wonder what the point of this exercise is. Should people really be losing jobs? Gigs?

Recently, a Virginia high school teacher was fired because he refused to use a gender pronoun. He wanted to reach some compromise and call the student by her new name, just not use a pronoun. Is that really grounds for firing?

A very liberal Canadian feminist, Meghan Murphy, had her Twitter account closed down because she said "men aren't women". This his hate speech nowadays?

I don't know that I'd be comfortable having these negative, even damaging things happen in my name. If someone said a slur many years ago, should we be punishing them now? Even when they don't stand by what they said anymore?

Should we follow Canada and compel speech?



Before anyone make assumptions, I am supportive of the gay community and have been pro-gay marriage for many years now. I would recognize a trans person's preferred name and pronoun and regard them as the gender they identify with, however, I will never us plurals, nor will I use "ze".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts...announced-oscars-host/?utm_term=.98ecf8c06dac
https://www.richmond.com/news/virgi...cle_65be1826-50b2-5d38-be58-47d9b9480917.html
https://thefederalist.com/2018/11/25/twitter-permanently-bans-feminist-writing-men-arent-women/

Meh, in 20 years the progressives will be forced by the ultra progressives to apologise for ever acknowledging the sky is blue for risk of offending the night.

People get wrapped up in sensibilities. Conservatives are no different with their ludicrous "war on Christmas" and other such nonsense.
 
There are many in the public eye which are constantly virtue signaling, claiming some illusionary moral superiority, only later to be found out have done seriously questionable acts directly opposite of what they were virtual signaling for.

Virtue signaling and other inane platitudes - The Boston Globe
https://www.bostonglobe.com/ideas/2015/12/24/virtue-signaling-and.../story.html

Dec 24, 2015 - Since the only thing people seem to like more than virtue signaling is judging other people, this term has caught on like, well, the ice bucket ...

The awful rise of 'virtue signalling' | The Spectator
https://www.spectator.co.uk › Features
Apr 18, 2015 - Mishal was 'virtue signalling' indirectly — indicating that she has the ... When she latergoes to a dinner party attended by other members of the ...Missing: caught ‎| ‎Must include: ‎caught

I invented 'virtue signalling'. Now it's taking over the ... - The Spectator
https://www.spectator.co.uk › Features
Oct 10, 2015 - Two days later, Helen Lewis used it in the New Statesman, saying 'a lot of what happens on Facebook, as with Twitter, is “virtue signalling” ...Missing: caught ‎| ‎Must include: ‎caught

'Virtue signalling' a poor and modern relation of political correctness
https://www.timeslive.co.za/.../2018-01-31-virtue-signalling-a-poor-and-modern-relati...
Jan 31, 2018 - Because unlike the latter‚ these days you can signal your virtue by ... was surely 'captured' to use our voguish term of art for corruption pedlars.

Frankly, with all the sexual harassment reported in entertainment media and news media, anytime any of these people pull their moral superiority shtick, I just laugh at them and discount everything they've just said. This, as well as the excessive PC BS, simply just need to go never to return, never to be seen or heard again.

Thanks for the education. Much of what you’ve posted and your own POV makes perfect sense to me too. Just a couple of references that are off the mark though. The ice bucket challenge was a legitimate money maker for a worthy cause (ALS research) that raised $115M.
The ‘Ice Bucket Challenge’ Helped Scientists Discover a New Gene Tied to A.L.S.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/...ientists-discover-a-new-gene-tied-to-als.html
Additionally, many times well wishes, condolences, and supportive words are real and sincere regardless of accompanying actions. Having said that, I completely concur with your disdain of the overtaking mass of empty platitudes.
 
Thanks for the education. Much of what you’ve posted and your own POV makes perfect sense to me too. Just a couple of references that are off the mark though. The ice bucket challenge was a legitimate money maker for a worthy cause (ALS research) that raised $115M.
The ‘Ice Bucket Challenge’ Helped Scientists Discover a New Gene Tied to A.L.S.https://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/28/...ientists-discover-a-new-gene-tied-to-als.html

Cool that they have. Me? I was just citing WikiPedia, usually a pretty good source for factual stuff.

Additionally, many times well wishes, condolences, and supportive words are real and sincere regardless of accompanying actions. Having said that, I completely concur with your disdain of the overtaking mass of empty platitudes.
 
The teacher in the article appeared to have a personal axe to grind. He created an unnecessary and entirely avoidable uncomfortable situation for the student. He took a stand in the face of the school board's orders to just use the male gender pronoun to refer to the student, and as is often the case when one takes a stand like that, one also risks losing one's job. The teacher clearly felt that the pronoun issue was important enough to him to walk out. That is, of course, entirely his prerogative.

You bring up a good point. Although I am not familiar with that particular incident, it seems to me that we aren't always informed about the circumstances and are being told part of the story. If the teacher wanted to prove a point rather than having just made faux pas, this might not have escalated. Otoh, a co worker of mine was fired recently for putting a hand on another coworker's shoulders. Supposedly, the guy took it as a threat. Although person x apologized, person y insisted that he felt threatened.
 
I'm hoping to hear your thoughts about how we as a society are punishing people for "sins" of the past, namely, having used gay slurs. I wonder how the LGBTQ community feels about what is happening in their name. Hearing that Kevin Hart was forced to step down from hosting the Oscars makes me wonder what the point of this exercise is. Should people really be losing jobs? Gigs?

Recently, a Virginia high school teacher was fired because he refused to use a gender pronoun. He wanted to reach some compromise and call the student by her new name, just not use a pronoun. Is that really grounds for firing?

A very liberal Canadian feminist, Meghan Murphy, had her Twitter account closed down because she said "men aren't women". This his hate speech nowadays?

I don't know that I'd be comfortable having these negative, even damaging things happen in my name. If someone said a slur many years ago, should we be punishing them now? Even when they don't stand by what they said anymore?

Should we follow Canada and compel speech?



Before anyone make assumptions, I am supportive of the gay community and have been pro-gay marriage for many years now. I would recognize a trans person's preferred name and pronoun and regard them as the gender they identify with, however, I will never us plurals, nor will I use "ze".

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts...announced-oscars-host/?utm_term=.98ecf8c06dac
https://www.richmond.com/news/virgi...cle_65be1826-50b2-5d38-be58-47d9b9480917.html
https://thefederalist.com/2018/11/25/twitter-permanently-bans-feminist-writing-men-arent-women/

LGBTQ are individuals first and foremost. No matter what things are done and claimed to be done because of the group they are individuals just like any other group, they have their own opinions.
Stuff like this is nothing new, just a different group at the forefront . . people ALWAYS have stuff to complain about.

no for my opinion on your examples

Kevin hart: seeing the skit in question and knowing its entirety when he did and that it was questioned and he addressed it years ago IMO the OSCARS made a poor choice but it is their choice to make pros or cons, support or backlash . .

The teacher: the teacher is **** out of luck . . .in this case the parents and doctors determine what the child is addressed as and the teacher must follow suit period.

Twitter: not familiar with this story at all but twitter is free to do what it wants with in the definition of the law and as long as it doesn't violate anybody rights. From the little i know now laws were broken and no rights were violated.

lastly its worth repeating this really doesnt have anything to do with LGBTQ its issues of individuals complaining and then a body, org, company, person, business etc decided whether they care and to respond or not.

This is on them the people complaining and the people the people responding . . . government laws and rights are at play here so i dont know what there really is to address beside give my opinion on these things.
I guess what im saying this part is freedom, laws werent broken and rights werent violated so its on the people . . I certainly wouldnt want any law that would force the oscars to keep Hart over THIS issue or the SCHOOL to keep the teacher THAT issue or the person to keep their twitter over THAT issue.

What would that law be? Im not saying ANYBODY said that im just saying this is an area of freedom where only we the people can respond . . . :shrug:
 
Back
Top Bottom