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Let's put the Capitol "riot" in perspective

Logophile

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There just isn't an equivalence.

BLM did not assault the Capitol attempting to stop the congress from finalizing some action that would end their movement after attending a rally chose because it was on that day, based entirely on a lie told by the holder of said rally, repeated in the most dire language as a threat to the nation itself that could only be stopped if they took individual action to Stop the Steal.

It's just not the same thing. I just heard a senator taking about "burning cities". Hear that one a lot.

But I'm pretty sure no one can provide a link to anything that would represent any city actually burning. Some fires, some buildings destroyed.

But no cities. I don't even think there were any neighborhoods.
But by definition, large groups gathering in city squares and tearing down government property is sedition by the definition from American Heritage. That's what I'm getting at. And the reason why I think it's important is not to diminish what happened at the Capitol, but to underscore that simple points of view color reactions and even definitions of what transpired. Last year was a long year of tumult, with public alarm at incursions going on for months. What happened at the Capitol was yet another extension - yes, extension - of a new way to voice displeasure. It's a sociological manifestation of frustration, and it's dangerous. To try to isolate these events with finger pointing is not productive. The key is to see all of the events unacceptable, but address them in such a way that people have a sense of civic responsibility and most importantly, that their voices are heard. Thanks!!
 

Logophile

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For the BLM protests to be sedation then you need to prove that the protesters were seeking to use violence to overthrow the government by force and violence and ignore the will of the people who voted.


TLDR. BLM protests were seeking redress for social grievances such as racism and bigotry of various minorities by following the 1st Amendment's protections of public protests and seeking social change through known and previously accepted avenues.

It is very obvious that you are desperate to rationalize your support of Trump and the Proud Boys by claiming that other people were doing the same so there is nothing wrong with what they did at the Capital last week and what you appear to support.
The best advice I could give you - albeit unsolicited - is to not speculate on motives to bolster your position. As soon as you opt to do that, I know that your position is weak, and it is. You've repeated dodged the question in lieu of some self-righteous assignation regarding my interest in this debate. You know nothing about me as a person other than I participate on this forum. Thanks!!
 

Luce

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The best advice I could give you - albeit unsolicited - is to not speculate on motives to bolster your position. As soon as you opt to do that, I know that your position is weak, and it is.
But if you're in with the boogs and the proudboys, we don't care about your opinion.
 

Lisa

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The best advice I could give you - albeit unsolicited - is to not speculate on motives to bolster your position. As soon as you opt to do that, I know that your position is weak, and it is. You've repeated dodged the question in lieu of some self-righteous assignation regarding my interest in this debate. You know nothing about me as a person other than I participate on this forum. Thanks!!
you are desperate to try to rationalize your support of the Proud Boys and other violent MAGAites. I don't care about your opinions and they don't change the facts of the matter. You support treason and sedition because of your support of a criminal liar, corporate con-man, and sexual abuser. Nothing that you can say will change that.
 

What if...?

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But by definition, large groups gathering in city squares and tearing down government property is sedition by the definition from American Heritage. That's what I'm getting at. And the reason why I think it's important is not to diminish what happened at the Capitol, but to underscore that simple points of view color reactions and even definitions of what transpired. Last year was a long year of tumult, with public alarm at incursions going on for months. What happened at the Capitol was yet another extension - yes, extension - of a new way to voice displeasure. It's a sociological manifestation of frustration, and it's dangerous. To try to isolate these events with finger pointing is not productive. The key is to see all of the events unacceptable, but address them in such a way that people have a sense of civic responsibility and most importantly, that their voices are heard. Thanks!!
But you still can't get around the simple fact that one side's outrage is completely manufactured and one has been brewing for decades.

Outrage over lies is not the same as outrage over actual issues of long contention.

There was never any reality based reason for trump to call a rally on that morning of that day apart from his false claims of fraud.

George Floyd on the other hand got suffocated on video.

And there is no way casual throw off rhetoric from the right about what happened is anything like an accurate protrayal of what actually happened. Because the images it elicits are cities in ruins and people wandering around covered in smudges with their clothes in rags and not the reality of folks miffed they can't go to their regular Starbucks for a while.
 

Napoleon

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So how many here have attended college, or even high school? Did you ever go to parties? Did you ever go to one of those parties where everything was going along really well? The music was blaring, people were feeling good. There were guys meeting girls and girls meeting guys and everyone was loose and having a great time.

Then a few more people showed up.

This group was a little bit more boisterous and next thing you know there's people doing shots. Then there's some guy being hung upside down over the keg and some chick has her boobs out. That's all good too but you just kind of know....there it goes! A couple of guys just got in a fight and now there's a broken window and the cops are on their way.

That's kind of the dynamic we saw in DC last week. You had a few people that took things a lot farther than need be and a lot that just kind of got caught up in the moment. It wasn't any kind of "planned attack" (outside of maybe a few that really did want to do some damage) and wasn't intended to do anything other than make a political statement. It was over in a few hours and there wasn't any "occupation" or any resurgence of the attacks the next day. There wasn't even a resurgence that night! The "riot" never took to the streets and it damned sure didn't break out across the nation.

The media, left, right and middle, would have you believe that this was the equivalent of the storming of the Bastille but it wasn't. It wasn't even close. It was a good time that got out of hand and that's all it was.
I’ve never been to a party where anyone played with their own feces, brought a gallows for the express purpose of hanging the Vice President, beat a police officer to death, ran around with hand restraints looking for people to kidnap and potentially execute, etc. What kind of parties did you attend?
 

Lutherf

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I’ve never been to a party where anyone played with their own feces, brought a gallows for the express purpose of hanging the Vice President, beat a police officer to death, ran around with hand restraints looking for people to kidnap and potentially execute, etc. What kind of parties did you attend?
I'd tell you about some of them but the best ones have issues for which there is no statute of limitations.

You seem to view this protest at the Capitol as being dramatically more criminal and more organized than the BLM protests. Is that an accurate observation on my part and, if so, why do you feel that way?
 

TheParser

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Just a party that got out of hand. I mean who hasn’t stormed government building before and planned to kidnapped a few people
Have to admit: your comments gave me a much needed chuckle.

Especially after hearing about the farce of impeaching our great President a second time.

Wow! "No fury like a woman ..."
 

calamity

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So how many here have attended college, or even high school? Did you ever go to parties? Did you ever go to one of those parties where everything was going along really well? The music was blaring, people were feeling good. There were guys meeting girls and girls meeting guys and everyone was loose and having a great time.

Then a few more people showed up.

This group was a little bit more boisterous and next thing you know there's people doing shots. Then there's some guy being hung upside down over the keg and some chick has her boobs out. That's all good too but you just kind of know....there it goes! A couple of guys just got in a fight and now there's a broken window and the cops are on their way.

That's kind of the dynamic we saw in DC last week. You had a few people that took things a lot farther than need be and a lot that just kind of got caught up in the moment. It wasn't any kind of "planned attack" (outside of maybe a few that really did want to do some damage) and wasn't intended to do anything other than make a political statement. It was over in a few hours and there wasn't any "occupation" or any resurgence of the attacks the next day. There wasn't even a resurgence that night! The "riot" never took to the streets and it damned sure didn't break out across the nation.

The media, left, right and middle, would have you believe that this was the equivalent of the storming of the Bastille but it wasn't. It wasn't even close. It was a good time that got out of hand and that's all it was.
No.

We saw an attempt to kidnap national leaders. Remember the zip ties? Remember the gallows? Remember the chants? I guess you needed to see an actual lynching to get the message.

Well, the rest of us don't.
 

Logophile

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But you still can't get around the simple fact that one side's outrage is completely manufactured and one has been brewing for decades.

Outrage over lies is not the same as outrage over actual issues of long contention.

There was never any reality based reason for trump to call a rally on that morning of that day apart from his false claims of fraud.

George Floyd on the other hand got suffocated on video.

And there is no way casual throw off rhetoric from the right about what happened is anything like an accurate protrayal of what actually happened. Because the images it elicits are cities in ruins and people wandering around covered in smudges with their clothes in rags and not the reality of folks miffed they can't go to their regular Starbucks for a while.
That's your opinion that the outrage was warranted. You see, I don't see it that way. I see a nation that has bent over backward to address racial inequities and has succeeded, culminating in a black president holding office for eight years, not to mention innumerable prominent black Americans in positions of influence, well-off and respected by both people of color and whites. Admittedly, I'd like to erase terms like black and white, but for the time being, in order to post comprehensively, I have to comply with the fashion of the times. If it were up to me, assigning a racial description would be frowned upon. Now, for what it's worth, my Dad was brutally murdered by two black men, but it never occurred to me to claim it racism, although I suppose it's possible.

I agree that Trump made a foolish mistake by doing what he did, and I agree that Floyd was reprehensibly killed. What I don't agree with is that people be so immersed in "their side" that they can't - even grudgingly - admit that we are dancing to a very dangerous tune, and that's unilateral. I don't know you, but I assuredly don't dislike you for your political leaning, and yet here and elsewhere, just a political discussion can become so rancorous and personal as to be juvenile. My two cents. Thanks!!
 

Hamish Howl

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I'd tell you about some of them but the best ones have issues for which there is no statute of limitations.
Um, that's a fairly narrow range of crimes. Murder, treason, one or two tax things.

What the hell kind of parties did you attend?
 

Felis Leo

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So how many here have attended college, or even high school? Did you ever go to parties? Did you ever go to one of those parties where everything was going along really well? The music was blaring, people were feeling good. There were guys meeting girls and girls meeting guys and everyone was loose and having a great time.

Then a few more people showed up.

This group was a little bit more boisterous and next thing you know there's people doing shots. Then there's some guy being hung upside down over the keg and some chick has her boobs out. That's all good too but you just kind of know....there it goes! A couple of guys just got in a fight and now there's a broken window and the cops are on their way.

That's kind of the dynamic we saw in DC last week. You had a few people that took things a lot farther than need be and a lot that just kind of got caught up in the moment. It wasn't any kind of "planned attack" (outside of maybe a few that really did want to do some damage) and wasn't intended to do anything other than make a political statement. It was over in a few hours and there wasn't any "occupation" or any resurgence of the attacks the next day. There wasn't even a resurgence that night! The "riot" never took to the streets and it damned sure didn't break out across the nation.

The media, left, right and middle, would have you believe that this was the equivalent of the storming of the Bastille but it wasn't. It wasn't even close. It was a good time that got out of hand and that's all it was.
I must respectfully disagree, Lutherf. If I were to take the analogy you went with, the fight broke out first and the windows were broken, and then the rude party commenced and followed. What we had on January 6th at our Capitol was a putsch as carried out by a lynch mob, followed by a small army of people who I think we can generously say did not think that far ahead about the possible consequences of their actions.
 

What if...?

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That's your opinion that the outrage was warranted. You see, I don't see it that way. I see a nation that has bent over backward to address racial inequities and has succeeded, culminating in a black president holding office for eight years, not to mention innumerable prominent black Americans in positions of influence, well-off and respected by both people of color and whites. Admittedly, I'd like to erase terms like black and white, but for the time being, in order to post comprehensively, I have to comply with the fashion of the times. If it were up to me, assigning a racial description would be frowned upon. Now, for what it's worth, my Dad was brutally murdered by two black men, but it never occurred to me to claim it racism, although I suppose it's possible.

I agree that Trump made a foolish mistake by doing what he did, and I agree that Floyd was reprehensibly killed. What I don't agree with is that people be so immersed in "their side" that they can't - even grudgingly - admit that we are dancing to a very dangerous tune, and that's unilateral. I don't know you, but I assuredly don't dislike you for your political leaning, and yet here and elsewhere, just a political discussion can become so rancorous and personal as to be juvenile. My two cents. Thanks!!
Nice cordial post.

But unfortunately for the narrative I'm white and have seen and been at the dirty end of far too much police misbehavior to accept your pat dismissal that it isn't a problem that has been brewing for decades.

Ever since the arms war the drug war fomented. And the difficulty of enforcing morality caused lawmakers to give greater and greater latitude in order to catch drug dealers.

The mob that raided the Capitol was there on that day at that time be wise they believed the lie that the election was stolen that no one who spread it actually believed.

And that's a kitten of another nuke.
 

What if...?

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I'd tell you about some of them but the best ones have issues for which there is no statute of limitations.

You seem to view this protest at the Capitol as being dramatically more criminal and more organized than the BLM protests. Is that an accurate observation on my part and, if so, why do you feel that way?
Location, timing, and subject matter make this incomparable to the BLM phenomenon this summer.

One was outrage at a problem that exists and can only be argued about.

The one on the 6th was outrage at a lie cynically told to them by a jackass and his enablers.

Sometimes cops kill bad guys and sometimes bad guys kill little kids.

They are both shootings, but they are not the same and never will be.

Citizens outraged over real things will always trump people outraged over lies. It cannot be any other way, even though the latter may express their cognitive dissonance by shedding the blood of those they have been told caused it instead of those who told them that lie in the first place.
 

Logophile

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Nice cordial post.

But unfortunately for the narrative I'm white and have seen and been at the dirty end of far too much police misbehavior to accept your pat dismissal that it isn't a problem that has been brewing for decades.

Ever since the arms war the drug war fomented. And the difficulty of enforcing morality caused lawmakers to give greater and greater latitude in order to catch drug dealers.

The mob that raided the Capitol was there on that day at that time be wise they believed the lie that the election was stolen that no one who spread it actually believed.

And that's a kitten of another nuke.

I understand, but as I've been subject to police "overreach" to put it mildly, I know that police abuse is not relegated to blacks. It is just as commonly directed toward whites, Asians, Hispanics, gays and women, etc. regardless even of community ties. Police officers need to be properly vetted, and given additional support given the conditions that they often must face, and do so stoically, or - especially should they have that proclivity to begin with - they can lose regard for human life and become intimidating, brutal and a public danger. Thanks!!
 

Lutherf

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I understand, but as I've been subject to police "overreach" to put it mildly, I know that police abuse is not relegated to blacks. It is just as commonly directed toward whites, Asians, Hispanics, gays and women, etc. regardless even of community ties. Police officers need to be properly vetted, and given additional support given the conditions that they often must face, and do so stoically, or - especially should they have that proclivity to begin with - they can lose regard for human life and become intimidating, brutal and a public danger. Thanks!!
Having been on the police side of the subject, I can say with some level of surety that police behavior is most often influenced by the behavior of the person they're interacting with. Even the cops that were on the "more assertive" side of engagement with the public tended to adjust their behavior based on the behavior of the subject they were dealing with. I won't say there was no unnecessary roughness but it was almost always the exception rather than the rule and even more rarely based on race.
 

Logophile

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Having been on the police side of the subject, I can say with some level of surety that police behavior is most often influenced by the behavior of the person they're interacting with. Even the cops that were on the "more assertive" side of engagement with the public tended to adjust their behavior based on the behavior of the subject they were dealing with. I won't say there was no unnecessary roughness but it was almost always the exception rather than the rule and even more rarely based on race.
Yeah, well, I wish I could agree but around here, no matter how obsequious "the other person," we have our share of uniforms on steroids - literally - that are simply itching for a confrontation. Thanks!!
 

What if...?

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I understand, but as I've been subject to police "overreach" to put it mildly, I know that police abuse is not relegated to blacks. It is just as commonly directed toward whites, Asians, Hispanics, gays and women, etc. regardless even of community ties. Police officers need to be properly vetted, and given additional support given the conditions that they often must face, and do so stoically, or - especially should they have that proclivity to begin with - they can lose regard for human life and become intimidating, brutal and a public danger. Thanks!!
Difference is I got "****, here we go again" part of the blacklist experience without the fear of death or false imprisonment they enjoy. Simply because I am white and my outlandish tribal gear might belong to some powerful person's kid.

I am acutally cop symapthetic. I got the genes. My ire comes from what I feel the role of "sheriff" in our society should be and how it actually is when they interface with some populations.

Keeping people safe should never make those people afraid. If it does, you're doing it wrong.
 

DiAnna

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So how many here have attended college, or even high school? Did you ever go to parties? Did you ever go to one of those parties where everything was going along really well? The music was blaring, people were feeling good. There were guys meeting girls and girls meeting guys and everyone was loose and having a great time.

Then a few more people showed up.

This group was a little bit more boisterous and next thing you know there's people doing shots. Then there's some guy being hung upside down over the keg and some chick has her boobs out. That's all good too but you just kind of know....there it goes! A couple of guys just got in a fight and now there's a broken window and the cops are on their way.

That's kind of the dynamic we saw in DC last week. You had a few people that took things a lot farther than need be and a lot that just kind of got caught up in the moment. It wasn't any kind of "planned attack" (outside of maybe a few that really did want to do some damage) and wasn't intended to do anything other than make a political statement. It was over in a few hours and there wasn't any "occupation" or any resurgence of the attacks the next day. There wasn't even a resurgence that night! The "riot" never took to the streets and it damned sure didn't break out across the nation.

The media, left, right and middle, would have you believe that this was the equivalent of the storming of the Bastille but it wasn't. It wasn't even close. It was a good time that got out of hand and that's all it was.
This entire post is... mind boggling; disgusting, despicable delusional. What on god's green earth were you thinking when you wrote it?? SMH
 

dixon01767

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They're literally trying to use social media to organize further coup attempts.
Geez, Youd think Amazon or whoever handles their servers would shut them down like Amazon did with Parler
 

dixon01767

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For the BLM protests to be sedation then you need to prove that the protesters were seeking to use violence to overthrow the government by force
??? Uh, same with the jan 6 protests. It was a protest escalated to civil disorder. And they could of occupied the capitol with 10,000 protesters with no real effect upon the ability of the Federal government to continue in authority or any effect upon the protesters ability to exercise any authority. ABSURD to argue that anyone there thought occupying a building would lead to an overthrow of government. REALLY ABSURD to argue they wanted to overthrow The Federal government headed by Donald Trump, This was no different than protesters occupying the Senate to try and stop or dictate the outcome of the Kavanaugh confirmation hearings. The jan 6 protests that lead to injuries of 50 officers is no different than the Whitehouse BLM protests that lead to injuries of 50 officers.
All just more typical Dems absurd impeachment BS.
 
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dixon01767

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The best advice I could give you - albeit unsolicited - is to not speculate on motives to bolster your position. As soon as you opt to do that, I know that your position is weak, and it is. You've repeated dodged the question in lieu of some self-righteous assignation regarding my interest in this debate. You know nothing about me as a person other than I participate on this forum. Thanks!!

What sane person could think occupying the Capitol building would lead to the overthrow of the Federal government? And a person would have to be insane to think 100s of protesters believed that
 

Deuce

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Geez, Youd think Amazon or whoever handles their servers would shut them down like Amazon did with Parler
Twitter actually blocks people who do that. Remember all that whining you right wingers have been doing about "censorship?"
 

Deuce

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What sane person could think occupying the Capitol building would lead to the overthrow of the Federal government? And a person would have to be insane to think 100s of protesters believed that
You think they went to the chambers of Congress during a vote to certify Joe Biden's victory to agree and peacefully cheer on Biden's certification?

What sane person could think that?
 
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