Let's Not Be Hypocrites

[1029066]

Well the US is filled with nativists who want to keep americans for americans but guess what? Last time I checked this country was started by immigrants after we screwed over the native americans so.......who are we to kick them out? We kicked out the Chinese with the exclusion act after they pretty much built our railroads for us. And the whole country hates mexicans now. Well first of all, capitalism is based on the fact that there will never be a shortage of the cheapest labor possible, so isnt it a good thing for all those corrupt corporations that a bunch of mexicans constantly cross the border? Why have we always hated immigrants? It's all based on racism basically. Pure racism. People wont admit it but thats really the reason. Racism and nativism. So lets stop being hypocrites.

 

[Cephus]

It was started by people who had a respect for the law. People who have since immigrated here came legally, following the laws that were set up in this country. However, the current spate of illegals, who think they have a right to be here and entirely ignore the law, are entirely different than those who came before. In older days, people came here to be Americans. Today, they come to make money and never become citizens and adopt American ways.

If you can't see the difference, you need to open your eyes.

 

[StillBallin75]

Well the US is filled with nativists who want to keep americans for americans but guess what? Last time I checked this country was started by immigrants after we screwed over the native americans so.......who are we to kick them out? We kicked out the Chinese with the exclusion act after they pretty much built our railroads for us. And the whole country hates mexicans now. Well first of all, capitalism is based on the fact that there will never be a shortage of the cheapest labor possible, so isnt it a good thing for all those corrupt corporations that a bunch of mexicans constantly cross the border? Why have we always hated immigrants? It's all based on racism basically. Pure racism. People wont admit it but thats really the reason. Racism and nativism. So lets stop being hypocrites.

Just a warning. People generally don't like being told what they think. If you're going to have a position like this you better be prepared to back it up with a solid argument.

 

[Muddy Creek]

It was started by people who had a respect for the law. People who have since immigrated here came legally, following the laws that were set up in this country. However, the current spate of illegals, who think they have a right to be here and entirely ignore the law, are entirely different than those who came before. In older days, people came here to be Americans. Today, they come to make money and never become citizens and adopt American ways.

If you can't see the difference, you need to open your eyes.

No, they were actually recruited by Bush on behalf of the corporations here. Even Halliburton used illegals to clean up Katrina, with the half ass way Halliburton cleans up anything.

Guest Workers: Mexico-US Negotiations - Rural Migration News | Migration Dialogue

from 2001, Bush was recruiting for more illegals

Fox and Bush agreed to establish a "migration working group" co-chaired by US Secretary of State Colin L. Powell and Attorney General John Ashcroft and Mexican Foreign Minister Jorge Castaneda and Interior Secretary Santiago Creel. The group's goal is to create "an orderly framework for migration that ensures humane treatment [and] legal security, and dignifies labor conditions."


Mexico came to the group's first meeting on April 4, 2001 with high expectations. Mexico said that it would try to prevent third-country nationals from transiting Mexico in an effort to illegally enter the US by stepping up enforcement along Mexico's border with Guatemala; requiring more foreign citizens to obtain visas for visits to Mexico; and cracking down on corrupt Mexican border guards who work with international smuggling gangs. President Fox said that Mexico's goal was to have the US jobs of unauthorized Mexicans legalized. And this does not have anything to do with them becoming Americans. Maybe they don't even want to become Americans. They just want to work." Fox said the status of "illegal immigrants who are contributing productively, with quality, to the U.S. economy" must be "regularized" so that Mexicans have "access to rights of working people so they would not need to be hiding away."

Using Illegal Labor to Clean Up after Katrina: Gulf Coast Slaves - SPIEGEL ONLINE - News - International

Halliburton and its subcontractors hired hundreds of undocumented Latino workers to clean up after Katrina -- only to mistreat them and throw them out without pay.

 

[Cephus]

Yup, they did, but the illegal situation didn't start with Katrina so that's really irrelevant to the current situation.

 

[Muddy Creek]

Yup, they did, but the illegal situation didn't start with Katrina so that's really irrelevant to the current situation.

The current situation is that we don't have a president actively recruiting illegals to work for corporations in this nation.

Obama Deporting More Illegals Than Bush - And he's punishing more businesses that hire them

Enemies may paint Barack Obama as soft on immigration, but his administration is actually deporting illegal immigrants in record numbers, according to the Washington Post. Immigration and Customs Enforcement estimates that it will deport 400,000 people this fiscal year, 10% more than George W. Bush sent packing in 2008 and 25% more than in 2007. It has also quadrupled the number of businesses audited on suspicion of hiring undocumented workers, doling out $6.4 million in fines.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

Woah woah woah. Is it California, Arizona, New Mexico and what not didnt we steal that land? Kicked em out? That land is their land as well....
Plus NAFTA really doesnt help out the Mexican people and workers at all.

Immigration Flood Unleashed by NAFTA's Disastrous Impact on Mexican Economy
by Roger Bybee and Carolyn Winter

The recent ferment on immigration policy has been so narrow that it has excluded the real issue: family-sustaining wages for workers both north and south of the border. The role of the North American Free Trade Agreement and misnamed 'free trade' has been scarcely mentioned in the increasingly bitter debate over the fate of America's 11 to 12 million illegal aliens.
NAFTA was sold to the American public as the magic formula that would improve the American economy at the same time it would raise up the impoverished Mexican economy. The time has come to look at the failures of this type of trade agreement before we engage in more and lower the economic prospects of all workers affected.
While there has been some media coverage of NAFTA's ruinous impact on US industrial communities, there has been even less media attention paid to its catastrophic effects in Mexico:

 

[Cephus]

The current situation is that we don't have a president actively recruiting illegals to work for corporations in this nation.

No, you currently have a president looking for votes and trying to garner support among the hispanic demographic. Both parties have been talking about amnesty for different reasons.

 

[Muddy Creek]

No, you currently have a president looking for votes and trying to garner support among the hispanic demographic. Both parties have been talking about amnesty for different reasons.

Sending back illegals is garnering votes? Not many people know this about Obama. How is he garnering votes?

 

[Cephus]

Sending back illegals is garnering votes? Not many people know this about Obama. How is he garnering votes?

He's not sending back significant numbers of illegals, he has, however, called for immigration reform and amnesty for illegals currently in the country. We saw how well that worked under Reagan.

 

[TheDemSocialist]

No, you currently have a president looking for votes and trying to garner support among the hispanic demographic. Both parties have been talking about amnesty for different reasons.

Last time i check Obama is stalling a plan to provide a path to citizenship for undocumented immigrants... Plus the DREAM act didnt even really get talked about in the Senate..

 

[StillBallin75]

He's not sending back significant numbers of illegals, he has, however, called for immigration reform and amnesty for illegals currently in the country. We saw how well that worked under Reagan.

Deportation rates have skyrocketed under Obama's administration, compared to Bush.

 

[Cephus]

Deportation rates have skyrocketed under Obama's administration, compared to Bush.

Not compared to what they should be. Bush was an ass with regard to immigration, the fact that Obama is half-an-ass doesn't make him much better.

 

[StillBallin75]

Not compared to what they should be. Bush was an ass with regard to immigration, the fact that Obama is half-an-ass doesn't make him much better.

then I guess your definition of "significant numbers" is pretty subjective.

 

[lpast]

This is simple, Americans dont hate mexicans...they hate illegal immigrants that are milking us dry, destroying the quality of life of lifelong americans in more than a couple of states and dont wasnt to assimilate into ameican culture they want to change it and fly their own flags.
Immigrants in the past that came here GOT NOTHING, they got to work and pay their own medical bills and everything else...they didnt have ANYTHING written in thier language they learned ENGLISH.
Whats going on at our border is disgusting and not even close to european immigration in the past.
Reagan started this assault on america by giving 2.5 million illegals amnesty he emboldened the entire country of mexico to come here for CHEAP LABOR and to keep american pay down and he was successful its been lower ever since.
Bush followed the reagan lead and wanted to give 11 million more amnesty and a free ride on the american train...and obama is the same for VOTES..and the working class american just keeps on getting screwed

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Not compared to what they should be. Bush was an ass with regard to immigration, the fact that Obama is half-an-ass doesn't make him much better.

Yes a rigidly structured police state that would be politically intolerable would be the way to go.

 

[Zyphlin]

1029066,

Lets stop being hypocrites. Last time I checked, this countries economy was largely built on the backs of african-american slaves. Who are we to stop people from owning slaves or using slaves? Who are we to tell another country, or heck, our own country that slavery is wrong? The arrogance of such hypocrisy.

Sorry, but your race baiting is pathetically tired and worn out. Perhaps you haven't noticed, but significant changes have occured in the past 200 years and the realities and necessities of the country at its time of infancy and its its current early adolescense are significantly different and as such the countries reactions, policies, and stances must grow to realistically represent the times and requirements of its present situation not base itself off of outdated data simply for nostalgic purposes.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

1029066,

Lets stop being hypocrites. Last time I checked, this countries economy was largely built on the backs of african-american slaves. Who are we to stop people from owning slaves or using slaves? Who are we to tell another country, or heck, our own country that slavery is wrong? The arrogance of such hypocrisy.

So we want the illegals gone for the sake of their own justice? That's all I could get from the above.

 

[Real Korimyr #9]

Yes, our nation was founded by one wave of unrestricted immigration after another. Look at what remains of the native peoples they displaced.

I don't want that to happen to us.

 

[Zyphlin]

So we want the illegals gone for the sake of their own justice? That's all I could get from the above.

Perhaps reading the entire above post would've helped you "get" it better. What you should've got from it is that I don't think its hypocritical that our laws or policies today don't match the laws and policies of our country in its early years.

Suggesting that we should stop caring about illegal immigration and have open borders because our country was founded by immigrants is a notion that is as ridiculous, narrow minded, and disconnected from reality as suggestiong that we should stop caring about and outlawing slavery because our countries economy was founded on the backs of slaves.

When you make a determination based simply off of what used to be, without actually looking at WHY they used to be that way and why they AREN'T now, you generally get a very ignorant choice.

 

[StillBallin75]

Yes, our nation was founded by one wave of unrestricted immigration after another. Look at what remains of the native peoples they displaced.

I don't want that to happen to us.

Don't worry Kori, we gotz mo gunz

 

[MKULTRABOY]

Perhaps reading the entire above post would've helped you "get" it better. What you should've got from it is that I don't think its hypocritical that our laws or policies today don't match the laws and policies of our country in its early years.

Suggesting that we should stop caring about illegal immigration and have open borders because our country was founded by immigrants is a notion that is as ridiculous, narrow minded, and disconnected from reality as suggestiong that we should stop caring about and outlawing slavery because our countries economy was founded on the backs of slaves.

When you make a determination based simply off of what used to be, without actually looking at WHY they used to be that way and why they AREN'T now, you generally get a very ignorant choice.

I don't understand what you mean. Did someone directly state the bolded above?

 

[Zyphlin]

I don't understand what you mean. Did someone directly state the bolded above?

No, as I stated, people have suggested the above...such as the OP suggesting "who are we to kick them out" and "lets no be hypocrites" all of which in the context of his rant suggests that we should have open borders and allow immigrants to come in however they want.

 

[MKULTRABOY]

No, as I stated, people have suggested the above...such as the OP suggesting "who are we to kick them out" and "lets no be hypocrites" all of which in the context of his rant suggests that we should have open borders and allow immigrants to come in however they want.

Careless statements, true.

But the whole slavery thing. Kinda cuts the legs out from under the whole American ideology? Saps the hutzpah out of it. Makes it all seem silly? No?

 

[Zyphlin]

What whole "american" thing?