Let's Define Our Terms

[Loulit01]

I've seen many threads where the discussion is confusing and goes on and on simply because we're not all talking about the same thing. Define terms you think are used incorrectly or in a misleading manner here.

I'll start with TRANSGENDER

transgender​

adjective

trans·gen·der | \ tran(t)s-ˈjen-dər , tranz- \

Definition of transgender​

: of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity differs from the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth
especially : of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity is opposite the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth

transgender​

[ trans-jen-der, tranz‐ ]SHOW IPA

---

adjective
noting or relating to a person whose gender identity does not correspond to that person’s sex assigned at birth:transgender rights;
She identifies as transgender.
noting or relating to a person who does not conform to societal gender norms or roles.
noun
Usually Offensive. a person who is transgender.

Post-op transgender and pre-op need to be differentiated.

 

[jnug]

You should identify your source if you are going to go down this road.

There are dictionaries and then there are "dictionaries". Some SUCK...some are pretty good.

 

[Loulit01]

The first is Merriam-Webster and the second is the Online Dictionary. If you have better definitions please post them.

 

[jnug]

The first is Merriam-Webster and the second is the Online Dictionary. If you have better definitions please post them.

The MW is a very good dictionary IMO. If by on-line you mean Dictionary.com.....it SUCKS!

 

[ttwtt78640]

In order to transition from M to F (or F to M) one needs a definition of M and F. If M or F are simply self-definable then problems are going to arise.

 

[Loulit01]

In order to transition from M to F (or F to M) one needs a definition of M and F. If M or F are simply self-definable then problems are going to arise.

Isn't it as simple as XX and XY? I say go with that up until they're post-op. That's when things get complicated.

 

[Queen Margo]

Simply impossible to come to terms between a Democrat and a Republican. We are wired so different. Besides, talking to most liberals is a waste of time.

 

[Buckeyes85]

The MW is a very good dictionary IMO. If by on-line you mean Dictionary.com.....it SUCKS!

Perhaps I misread but I think the point was to solicit alternate definitions, if there are any. You have to start somewhere.
If someone wants to chime in with the suggestion that transgender means anyone who wears pink or purple, well at least you know you aren't at the same starting point.

 

[Buckeyes85]

Simply impossible to come to terms between a Democrat and a Republican. We are wired so different. Besides, talking to most liberals is a waste of time.

Yet here you are on a board talking with liberals.
Why don't you waste less of your precious time and go find a board that has ONLY conservatives?

 

[Queen Margo]

Yet here you are on a board talking with liberals.
Why don't you waste less of your precious time and go find a board that has ONLY conservatives?

I am here to say what I want to say. I don't answer many comments made back at me unless I find them amusing

 

[BirdinHand]

I believe "pre" and "post" op are now outdated as gender is no longer defined as matching physical sex but rather what gender someone identifies with. So, ones gender identity can be male or female regardless of what their physical sex and body are.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Isn't it as simple as XX and XY? I say go with that up until they're post-op. That's when things get complicated.

Yep, but what we now call being transgender (even post-op) does not alter anyone from being either XX or XY.

 

[Loulit01]

Yep, but what we now call being transgender (even post-op) does not alter anyone from being either XX or XY.

Agreed. But if a man has his penis and testicles removed and a vagina constructed there may be a case that he's now a woman what with estrogen treatments and growing breasts.

 

[Loulit01]

I believe "pre" and "post" op are now outdated as gender is no longer defined as matching physical sex but rather what gender someone identifies with. So, ones gender identity can be male or female regardless of what their physical sex and body are.

If only it were that simple.

 

[Queen Margo]

Agreed. But if a man has his penis and testicles removed and a vagina constructed there may be a case that he's now a woman what with estrogen treatments and growing breasts.

Would that not be a mutation?

 

[Lutherf]

"Transgender"?

That would the individual psychological condition of one who, for whatever reason, fails to recognize and/or accept their biological gender. It's a psychological matter rather than a physiological one.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I believe "pre" and "post" op are now outdated as gender is no longer defined as matching physical sex but rather what gender someone identifies with. So, ones gender identity can be male or female regardless of what their physical sex and body are.

Hmm… so male convicts (those seeking government contract set asides and draft dodgers?) can simply become ‘trans’ women on their say so?

 

[BirdinHand]

Hmm… so male convicts (those seeking government contract set asides and draft dodgers?) can simply become ‘trans’ women on their say so?

I'm merely stating my understanding of what gender identity is in 2022.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Agreed. But if a man has his penis and testicles removed and a vagina constructed there may be a case that he's now a woman what with estrogen treatments and growing breasts.

OK, so you are defining gender in terms of (having all of some set of?) specific physical traits. In other words, one is not either a trans M or F until they meet all of the (given) M or F characteristics.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I'm merely stating my understanding of what gender identity is in 2022.

OK, but gender identity is then not physically measurable.

 

[ProgressPlease]

People on these boards and elsewhere don't seem to agree on the definition of woman, the definition of gender, of gender identity, of sex, of much at all really. It's a problem.

The current concept is that transgender is an umbrella term. This is how people under 30 generally refer to trans.

 

[Lutherf]

Agreed. But if a man has his penis and testicles removed and a vagina constructed there may be a case that he's now a woman what with estrogen treatments and growing breasts.

You might get someone to believe that bullshit but that doesn't make it true.

Females have all the physiological components necessary to produce eggs, receive semen, embed a fertilized egg, gestate, give birth and provide mother's milk to the born child. Males have all the psychological components to produce sperm. Slicing and dicing the physiological components doesn't turn one into the other and the very fact that those steps must occur to "transition" is proof that "transgender" is a psychological problem, not a physiological one.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Isn't it as simple as XX and XY? I say go with that up until they're post-op. That's when things get complicated.

Complications with establishing one’s gender identity come long before any surgery. Surgery, for those that choose the option, aids in affirming the person’s gender identity, thus alleviating much of the “complications”.

For me, personally, if someone says they are a transgender person, that is sufficient.

 

[Rexedgar]

In order to transition from M to F (or F to M) one needs a definition of M and F. If M or F are simply self-definable then problems are going to arise.

You bucking for a SCOTUS nomination?

 

[BirdinHand]

People on these boards and elsewhere don't seem to agree on the definition of woman, the definition of gender, of gender identity, of sex, of much at all really. It's a problem.

The current concept is that transgender is an umbrella term. This is how people under 30 generally refer to trans.

View attachment 67381844

Yes, this is what I'm understanding is *now* the definition of transgender and what individuals mean when they say transgender.

It is different from prior understanding/definitions for the term.