Lese Majeste! Clinton Fury With Sanders Grows

[Abbazorkzog]

I am of course going to be alone on this. Being as firmly #NeverTrump as I am, I disagree with the #BernieOrBust crowd at this point, and think that the best course of action to prevent a Trump Presidency is to start moving towards compromise, we can always focus on exposing President Clinton later with a strong, vocal and popular Vice President Sanders and a 'Tea Party' of the left. But even that is thinking too far ahead. Right now our primary goal should be to unify the Democratic ticket by pulling a JFK-LBJ strategy. Although, as a Sanders supporter myself, I would love to see Bernie at the top of the ticket, it is just simply not going to happen (in my opinion, the system is too corrupt). Bernie needs to pull out and rally the front around Clinton and himself, and I am sure that Bernie - with his support and momentum - can easily sway the Convention in favor of him being her running-mate.

Likewise, the Clintons and their supporters will be doing nothing short of cutting off their nose to spite their face with their emotionally-driven bull**** goal of giving Sanders and his supporters no quarter whatsoever, despite the looming Trump threat, when it would be so simple to empower the Vice Presidency with Sanders at its helm and simultaneously unite the party and simultaneously stopper the flow of Sanders supporters going over to Trump.

We can all win, or we can all lose. We will certainly be doing the latter by continuing this temper-tantrum tirade on both sides of the primary race, which Trump will inevitably seize upon and soar to victory.

Bad. Very bad.

#NeverTrump

 

[Frank Apisa]

How so? Does he have some skeletons in the closet the media hasn't exposed yet? Pretty much anyone who is going to vote already knows Sanders is a socialist.

He has not had any mud thrown at him yet.

IF he got the nomination...something I consider prohibitively unlikely...he would have mud coming at him from every side.

Obviously you think I am wrong on that.

Fine. We disagree.

 

[FieldTheorist]

I am of course going to be alone on this. Being as firmly #NeverTrump as I am, I disagree with the #BernieOrBust crowd at this point, and think that the best course of action to prevent a Trump Presidency is to start moving towards compromise, we can always focus on exposing President Clinton later with a strong, vocal and popular Vice President Sanders and a 'Tea Party' of the left. But even that is thinking too far ahead. Right now our primary goal should be to unify the Democratic ticket by pulling a JFK-LBJ strategy. Although, as a Sanders supporter myself, I would love to see Bernie at the top of the ticket, it is just simply not going to happen (in my opinion, the system is too corrupt). Bernie needs to pull out and rally the front around Clinton and himself, and I am sure that Bernie - with his support and momentum - can easily sway the Convention in favor of him being her running-mate.

By my estimation, that's not a strategy that will be successful. If Sanders pulls out, Hillary will interpret this as total victory, and proceed to walk into a disastrous general election with Trump, conceding nothing to Sanders, further alienating the left-wing Independents and Millennials.

So at this point, I will not be doing anything, and I will continue to fund Sanders to push forward. If Hillary wants to move to the Left and start agreeing with 80% of the Democrats and 60% of Americans on various issues like healthcare, and so on, that's on her and the DNC. If she gives me a serious reason to vote for her over Jill Stein, then I'll vote for her. If she doesn't? Then I guess we can say hello to president Trump in 2017. It'll be a disaster well-earned.

Likewise, the Clintons and their supporters will be doing nothing short of cutting off their nose to spite their face with their emotionally-driven bull**** goal of giving Sanders and his supporters no quarter whatsoever, despite the looming Trump threat, when it would be so simple to empower the Vice Presidency with Sanders at its helm and simultaneously unite the party and simultaneously stopper the flow of Sanders supporters going over to Trump.

And yet that's exactly what they'll do unless the DNC physically steps in and stops them from doing it. But the DNC (chairperson, Congress, the presidency, etc) is predominantly carrying water for Hillary, so yeah.

We can all win, or we can all lose. We will certainly be doing the latter by continuing this temper-tantrum tirade on both sides of the primary race, which Trump will inevitably seize upon and soar to victory.

That assumes that people view Trump as worse than Hillary. Others have their own view, but I do think he's worse, but I don't believe he's so much worse that I'm willing to watch Hillary secure power of the DNC so far that she'll destroy everything the Sanders movement has worked towards.

I know what kind of a person Hillary is, she and Bill are the real life equivalents of Tywin Lannister. She responds to power, and isn't used to not being the most powerful person in the room. And I don't kneel.

She said she feared for her life. I doubt the booing made her fear for her life. For one, as she walked off the stage she was sarcastically blowing kisses to the Bernie supporters. They were outraged over the rule breaking and then were mocked for their outrage. The outrage was vocal. Zero violence. No chairs thrown, nobody assaulted. The police there didn't have to arrest or detain anyone. But the DNC chose to lie about it. Seriously, **** them.

It's just insane. I've never seen such a total lack of concern for the truth outside of Fox News. But I guess that's the reality here, CNN and MSNBC are now just the DNC News Network just like Fox is the RNC New Network. They've just lifted the veil.

He has not had any mud thrown at him yet.

:roll:

 

[Frank Apisa]

You quoted me saying, "He has not had any mud thrown at him yet."

And responded with:

:roll:

If you think what Sanders HAS had to deal with is mud...you ARE living a fantasy. Let him win the nomination somehow...and you will see mud.

My guess, by the way, is that Hillary Clinton and her supporters will be decent enough to back him if he does...just as she and they backed Barack Obama when he won.

 

[Kobie]

You go Bernie! Bern baby Bern!

The sense of entitlement of the Clinton people is breathtaking. I hope Sanders runs a third party bid just to teach them a lesson.

But then we end up with Trump, which will teach us ALL a lesson.

Clinton fury with Sanders grows | TheHill

Wait, so the GOP works to undermine Trump and you cheer, but the Dems work to undermine Sanders and you hope they get taught a lesson.

Could you be more of a hack?

 

[reinoe]

I was not asking for loyalty to a political party.

I AM NOT loyal to any political party...I am a registered Independent.

I am asking for sanity...and in my opinion, "sanity" in this election is doing as much as possible to prevent Donald Trump from attaining the Oval Office.

I'd vote for George W. Bush to return in order to do that.

But I respect your right to continue doing what you are doing...even if it is helping Trump get that office.

You claim for sanity but in reality your an establishment hack.

 

[Frank Apisa]

You claim for sanity but in reality your an establishment hack.

I am not an establishment hack.

And it is tough to pay too much attention to a comment like that from someone who does not know the difference between "your" and "you're."

 

[jmotivator]

I think the demand that Sanders give up his effort despite his increased success is what sets this apart. After all, he still has a chance to turn the superdelegates.

I think somewhere in the back of his mind Sanders isn't ruling out the possibility of an indictment for Clinton.

If he dropped out and she was indicted then the DNC could just pick whoever they want as their candidate, if he's still running a close second it would be harder for the DNC to give the nod to anyone but him.

 

[shagg]

I think somewhere in the back of his mind Sanders isn't ruling out the possibility of an indictment for Clinton.

If he dropped out and she was indicted then the DNC could just pick whoever they want as their candidate, if he's still running a close second it would be harder for the DNC to give the nod to anyone but him.

It makes sense in other ways too, but this is absolutely one of the reasons he is keeping on.

 

[Frank Apisa]

It makes sense in other ways too, but this is absolutely one of the reasons he is keeping on.

I have no problem with him going on. In fact, I consider tenacity to be a virtue, not a vice.

Some of his supporters impact on me like a swollen hemorrhoid, though.

 

[shagg]

I have no problem with him going on. In fact, I consider tenacity to be a virtue, not a vice.

Some of his supporters impact on me like a swollen hemorrhoid, though.

To be fair Frank, and I'm not talking about you or anyone specifically, the Clinton crowd has had a condescending tone when addressing the Sanders crowd for the last 10 months. Almost like a parent would talk to a teenager who is very passionate about their youthful naivete. They have pushed the inevitability card and the electability card ad nauseaum. And now that things have settled a bit the Clinton crowd needs all the help it can get if it wants a chance at winning November, and to boot Bernie does significantly better in the polls. For some reason, the Clinton camp just can't understand the Sander's camp's reluctance to back Clinton, and the Sanders camp just sees this as the Clinton camp having painted itself into a corner and are now asking those they've looked down their nose at for help.

The urge to respond in a .... cheeky manner is very very strong. Whether it's a finger and the cold shoulder, "I told you so", a rant, or a professional grade trolling.

 

[Frank Apisa]

To be fair Frank, and I'm not talking about you or anyone specifically, the Clinton crowd has had a condescending tone when addressing the Sanders crowd for the last 10 months. Almost like a parent would talk to a teenager who is very passionate about their youthful naivete. They have pushed the inevitability card and the electability card ad nauseaum. And now that things have settled a bit the Clinton crowd needs all the help it can get if it wants a chance at winning November, and to boot Bernie does significantly better in the polls. For some reason, the Clinton camp just can't understand the Sander's camp's reluctance to back Clinton, and the Sanders camp just sees this as the Clinton camp having painted itself into a corner and are now asking those they've looked down their nose at for help.

The urge to respond in a .... cheeky manner is very very strong. Whether it's a finger and the cold shoulder, "I told you so", a rant, or a professional grade trolling.

One...right from the beginning, Hillary Clinton treated Bernie Sanders with plenty of respect. In fact, the fact that neither of them blasted the other the way the Republicans were doing to each other was discussed a LOT.

From the very beginning it was evident to the Clinton people (it certainly was to me) that in order for them to win, the Bernie Sanders people would have to come on board.

Nothing Earth shattering there...IN EVERY PRIMARY ELECTION that is the case.

EVERY PRIMARY ELECTION FOR BOTH PARTIES...this happens. This is not something...and is not the "now that..." you seem to think it is.

I acknowledge that the Sanders people...like the Cruz, Rubio, Carson, JEB, Gilmore, Christie, Fiorina, Santorum, Paul, Huckabee, Pataki, Graham, Jindal, Walker, Perry...have to come on board with the ultimate winner...IN ORDER FOR THE PARTY TO WIN.

They seem to be doing it.


For those of you who would rather have Donald Trump win than pull the lever for Hillary Clinton...you certainly have that right...and I am sure you can justify that move for yourself.

So be it.

Vote for whom you choose...or do not vote.

We will all live with the results...and we will survive.

 

[shagg]

(1)One...right from the beginning, Hillary Clinton treated Bernie Sanders with plenty of respect. In fact, the fact that neither of them blasted the other the way the Republicans were doing to each other was discussed a LOT.

(2)From the very beginning it was evident to the Clinton people (it certainly was to me) that in order for them to win, the Bernie Sanders people would have to come on board.

Nothing Earth shattering there...IN EVERY PRIMARY ELECTION that is the case.

EVERY PRIMARY ELECTION FOR BOTH PARTIES...this happens. This is not something...and is not the "now that..." you seem to think it is.

I acknowledge that the Sanders people...like the Cruz, Rubio, Carson, JEB, Gilmore, Christie, Fiorina, Santorum, Paul, Huckabee, Pataki, Graham, Jindal, Walker, Perry...have to come on board with the ultimate winner...IN ORDER FOR THE PARTY TO WIN.

They seem to be doing it.


(3)For those of you who would rather have Donald Trump win than pull the lever for Hillary Clinton...you certainly have that right...and I am sure you can justify that move for yourself.

So be it.

Vote for whom you choose...or do not vote.

(4)We will all live with the results...and we will survive.

You make some good points Frank.

1) This is true. The GOP primaries were a circus from the moment Trump announced, especially the debates. Clinton and Sanders (and the other 2 guys) treated each other with respect as far as what they said to each other. My point is everything from the Clinton camp has come in the tone of a condescending parent addressing a rebellious child. Maybe you missed it subconsciously because you're older and most Bernie supporters are younger and it just seemed natural, but it's been there the whole time. Like she rolled her eyes every time she had to respond to something the Sanders camp brought up.

2) you're right both historically and in regards to Trump/GOP supporters. The difference with Clinton is that a lot of people supported Bernie because they didn't like Clinton in the first place, many of those people being independent or independentish with zero party loyalty. Add in the fact that instead of trying to bring them into the fold, Clinton took a more paternal "I know whats best for you and it's me" stance that I described above.

3) Of course

4) We will survive either way, which takes a lot of the "You have to vote against Trump!!!!" pressure off the decision for those who see it that way. For me, I don't want to see Social Conservatism in the form of SCOTUS rulings sweep across America, so I will pull the level for Shillary, even though I hate her and most of what she stands for. But this whole game smells like week old fish on a hot summer day, and I absolutely hate the way I have been maneuvered into voting for her.

 

[Frank Apisa]

You make some good points Frank.

1) This is true. The GOP primaries were a circus from the moment Trump announced, especially the debates. Clinton and Sanders (and the other 2 guys) treated each other with respect as far as what they said to each other. My point is everything from the Clinton camp has come in the tone of a condescending parent addressing a rebellious child. Maybe you missed it subconsciously because you're older and most Bernie supporters are younger and it just seemed natural, but it's been there the whole time. Like she rolled her eyes every time she had to respond to something the Sanders camp brought up.

2) you're right both historically and in regards to Trump/GOP supporters. The difference with Clinton is that a lot of people supported Bernie because they didn't like Clinton in the first place, many of those people being independent or independentish with zero party loyalty. Add in the fact that instead of trying to bring them into the fold, Clinton took a more paternal "I know whats best for you and it's me" stance that I described above.

3) Of course

4) We will survive either way, which takes a lot of the "You have to vote against Trump!!!!" pressure off the decision for those who see it that way. For me, I don't want to see Social Conservatism in the form of SCOTUS rulings sweep across America, so I will pull the level for Shillary, even though I hate her and most of what she stands for. But this whole game smells like week old fish on a hot summer day, and I absolutely hate the way I have been maneuvered into voting for her.

This whole campaign...both sides and from everyone involved including the media...does indeed smell like week old fish on a hot summer day. We are 5 x 5 on that, Shagg. (I gotta admit, though, that I am probably enjoying this farce more than any previous presidential election run-up!)

I hope lots of people who dislike Hillary decide to hold their noses and vote for her...and I say that not because of "party loyalty" (I'm an Independent)...but because I think a Republican in the White House would mean a SCOTUS that will pollute this country for three more decades.

Thanks for your response. I'm glad we could discuss it respectfully.