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Leningradets Died Not from the German Blockade but from Marxist - Stalinist Failure to Send Food, Solonin Says

joluoto said:
Because the blockades were very different. Basically The USSR was not at war with anyone during the Berlin blockade, mostly they were bluffing and overplaying their hand. And when the West called their bluff and did the airlift, the Soviets did nothing. On the contrary during the Leningrad blockade Germany and the USSR were at war.

The reason people starved in Leningrad was the blockade, the Nazis were the ones doing the blockade.
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" bluffing and overplaying their hand. " LOL. much like in Cuba ?


do you understand that airlift is way much more complicated operation than boat or trucks food transport ?

BBC
"

BBC: And the ships were there? What to carry?
M.S. : There were not many boats, but a lot: the North-Western River Shipping Company, the Leningrad Regional Shipping Company, the Ladoga Military Flotilla, the Lenryba Trust. Only the first of these structures by the beginning of navigation in 1941 had 323 tugboats and 960 non-self-propelled vessels with a total carrying capacity of 420 thousand tons; in 1940 these ships carried 3.4 million tons of cargo.
However, after the outbreak of the war, the huge fleet melted before our eyes. Allegedly in August 1941, "a large number of ships left Leningrad to the east with populations and evacuations." Why, then, weren't they returned back at the end of the assignment?
As a result, 116 self-propelled and non-self-propelled vessels remained on Ladoga, of which only five tugs and 29 lake-class barges.
On August 30, 1941, the State Defense Committee ordered the people's commissariats of the naval and river fleets to allocate 25 tugs and 75 barges for the needs of Leningrad, but the decision remained on paper.
...

Rescuing the civilian population, especially what is believed to remain in the occupation, was not one of Stalin's priorities. There are more important things, and this is how it will turn out.

"

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meanwhile Marxist bosses and their servants in Leningrad did not die ....

"

BBC: Zhdanov was not the only one. Senior Lieutenant of State Security Fedor Bobrov, who worked as assistant director for human resources at R eningradsk th Metal Works , almost daily Selections al Blog: " good breakfast, drinking coffee " , " day was a dinner with vodka " , " supper good " , " drinking tea milk, sausage " , " got smoked sausage and bacon " , " was at the ceremonial meeting, after the banquet "... True, he kept his diary in 1942, when the situation was somewhat improved.



MS: On December 9, 1941, in the midst of hunger, not even the secretary, but the instructor of the city committee Nikolai Ribkovsky wrote in his diary: "Yesterday I ate the first green cabbage soup with sour cream, the second cutlet with noodles, and today the first soup with vermicelli, for the second pork with stewed cabbage. "

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Litwin said:
" bluffing and overplaying their hand. " LOL. much like in Cuba ?


do you understand that airlift is way much more complicated operation than boat or trucks food transport ?

BBC
"

BBC: And the ships were there? What to carry?
M.S. : There were not many boats, but a lot: the North-Western River Shipping Company, the Leningrad Regional Shipping Company, the Ladoga Military Flotilla, the Lenryba Trust. Only the first of these structures by the beginning of navigation in 1941 had 323 tugboats and 960 non-self-propelled vessels with a total carrying capacity of 420 thousand tons; in 1940 these ships carried 3.4 million tons of cargo.
However, after the outbreak of the war, the huge fleet melted before our eyes. Allegedly in August 1941, "a large number of ships left Leningrad to the east with populations and evacuations." Why, then, weren't they returned back at the end of the assignment?
As a result, 116 self-propelled and non-self-propelled vessels remained on Ladoga, of which only five tugs and 29 lake-class barges.
On August 30, 1941, the State Defense Committee ordered the people's commissariats of the naval and river fleets to allocate 25 tugs and 75 barges for the needs of Leningrad, but the decision remained on paper.
...

Rescuing the civilian population, especially what is believed to remain in the occupation, was not one of Stalin's priorities. There are more important things, and this is how it will turn out.

"

[/URL]
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I dunno why you bring up Cuba, there were many wills going into the Cuba crisis, but one thing you have to understand about that crisis is that Moscow and Washington had very bad intel about each other. The USSR was actually afraid of the outdated missiles in Turkey (had no idea how outdated and impractical they were), while Kruschev of course felt that he had to play tough, because the temperature in Kreml was getting hot (and not long after it was too hot for Kruschev).

Your statements still makes no sense. If there were no blockade there would have been no starvation in Leningrad. So the Nazi blockade caused the starvation. That Stalin decided not to do anything about it is another issue, but it doesn't mean the cause of the starvation wasn't the blockade.
 
joluoto said:
I dunno why you bring up Cuba, there were many wills going into the Cuba crisis, but one thing you have to understand about that crisis is that Moscow and Washington had very bad intel about each other. The USSR was actually afraid of the outdated missiles in Turkey (had no idea how outdated and impractical they were), while Kruschev of course felt that he had to play tough, because the temperature in Kreml was getting hot (and not long after it was too hot for Kruschev).

Your statements still makes no sense. If there were no blockade there would have been no starvation in Leningrad. So the Nazi blockade caused the starvation. That Stalin decided not to do anything about it is another issue, but it doesn't mean the cause of the starvation wasn't the blockade.
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back om topic :
simple question: why Koba did not bring food into the city using the boats of " North-Western River Shipping Company, the Leningrad Regional Shipping Company, the Ladoga Military Flotilla, the Lenryba Trust. " when people needed it most ?
 
Litwin said:
back om topic :
simple question: why Koba did not bring food into the city using the boats of " North-Western River Shipping Company, the Leningrad Regional Shipping Company, the Ladoga Military Flotilla, the Lenryba Trust. " when people needed it most ?
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Question: If the West had not done the food lift to West Berlin and the Berliners had actually starved, would that have been the fault of the West or the USSR.

I'll give the answer: The USSR, they created the problem in the first place. Just like the Nazis created the problem with the Leningrad blockade.
 
joluoto said:
Question: If the West had not done the food lift to West Berlin and the Berliners had actually starved, would that have been the fault of the West or the USSR.

...
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i see your point, still
Koba´s armies surrounded Berlin from all sides, it was real blockade , meanwhile in case of L. it never was a blockade, the lake Ladoga was in red army hands always

Berlin Blockade - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Berlin_Blockade



The Berlin Blockade (24 June 1948 – 12 May 1949) was one of the first major international crises of the Cold War. During the multinational occupation of ...
 
What are we supposed to be choosing from here? Dying from cancer or dying from being murdered?

Hitler or Stalin? WTF?
 
Peace time v
Litwin said:
" bluffing and overplaying their hand. " LOL. much like in Cuba ?


do you understand that airlift is way much more complicated operation than boat or trucks food transport ?

BBC
"

BBC: And the ships were there? What to carry?
M.S. : There were not many boats, but a lot: the North-Western River Shipping Company, the Leningrad Regional Shipping Company, the Ladoga Military Flotilla, the Lenryba Trust. Only the first of these structures by the beginning of navigation in 1941 had 323 tugboats and 960 non-self-propelled vessels with a total carrying capacity of 420 thousand tons; in 1940 these ships carried 3.4 million tons of cargo.
However, after the outbreak of the war, the huge fleet melted before our eyes. Allegedly in August 1941, "a large number of ships left Leningrad to the east with populations and evacuations." Why, then, weren't they returned back at the end of the assignment?
As a result, 116 self-propelled and non-self-propelled vessels remained on Ladoga, of which only five tugs and 29 lake-class barges.
On August 30, 1941, the State Defense Committee ordered the people's commissariats of the naval and river fleets to allocate 25 tugs and 75 barges for the needs of Leningrad, but the decision remained on paper.
...

Rescuing the civilian population, especially what is believed to remain in the occupation, was not one of Stalin's priorities. There are more important things, and this is how it will turn out.

"

Google Translate

Google's service, offered free of charge, instantly translates words, phrases, and web pages between English and over 100 other languages.
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Click to expand...

Peace vs. War

Try to understand...
 
Nazis..... Nazi
Litwin said:
back om topic :
simple question: why Koba did not bring food into the city using the boats of " North-Western River Shipping Company, the Leningrad Regional Shipping Company, the Ladoga Military Flotilla, the Lenryba Trust. " when people needed it most ?
Click to expand...


NAZIS caused the situation...
 
SenorXm/Sirius said:
What are we supposed to be choosing from here? Dying from cancer or dying from being murdered?

Hitler or Stalin? WTF?
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+1, tell it to the Marxists, pro - Moscow activists here, who suggest that Koba was a good guy ...
 
Fledermaus said:
Quote any of us saying Stalin was a "good guy" .
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public opinion has been kinder to Stalin than Hitler. But one historian looks at Stalin's mass killings and urges that the definition of genocide be

I do 100% agree with Stanford history Professor Norman Naimar , Stalin (and stalinism ) must get his place on the bottom of human history. side by side with Ivan The Terrible, Hitler and Pol Pot. "public opinion has been kinder to Stalin than Hitler. But one historian looks at Stalin's mass...
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com
 
Fledermaus said:
Quote him saying so...
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do your research by yourself , you are paying me German´s planes were too busy fighting USA/UK /Canada/Polish planes , something what the commie - stalinists are never mentioning
 
Litwin said:
do your research by yourself , you are paying me German´s planes were too busy fighting USA/UK /Canada/Polish planes , something what the commie - stalinists are never mentioning
Click to expand...

So, you can't quote him.

CLUE : The Luftwaffe continued strikes on the Soviets. It was still there.

CLUE : Four of the six Luftflotte took part in the operations in the USSR. That is roughly two thirds.
 
Litwin said:

public opinion has been kinder to Stalin than Hitler. But one historian looks at Stalin's mass killings and urges that the definition of genocide be

I do 100% agree with Stanford history Professor Norman Naimar , Stalin (and stalinism ) must get his place on the bottom of human history. side by side with Ivan The Terrible, Hitler and Pol Pot. "public opinion has been kinder to Stalin than Hitler. But one historian looks at Stalin's mass...
debatepolitics.com debatepolitics.com
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Your words : "tell it to the Marxists, pro - Moscow activists here,"

Quote any of us saying Stalin was a "good guy" .
 
Litwin said:
+1, tell it to the Marxists, pro - Moscow activists here, who suggest that Koba was a good guy ...
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You're full of bullshit, no one here is saying Stalin was a good guy.
 
Litwin said:
his name is Aleksandr Dugin
Cza6XEoUoAAWzUH.jpg
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Do you believe that nonsense too?
 
joluoto said:
Because the blockades were very different. Basically The USSR was not at war with anyone during the Berlin blockade, mostly they were bluffing and overplaying their hand. And when the West called their bluff and did the airlift, the Soviets did nothing. On the contrary during the Leningrad blockade Germany and the USSR were at war.

The reason people starved in Leningrad was the blockade, the Nazis were the ones doing the blockade.
Click to expand...
It’s astounding that he thinks the two situations are comparable. When Soviet Russia tried to transport starving children from Leningrad, the Nazis bombed the boats. The Nazis murdered starving children in front of their own parents. It was a horrible war crime. The amount of death and terror that existed in Leningrad is not comparable.
 
SheWolf said:
It’s astounding that he thinks the two situations are comparable. When Soviet Russia tried to transport starving children from Leningrad, the Nazis bombed the boats. ...
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a link? why Koba/satlinists did "transport starving children from Leningrad" in the NIGHT - TIME ?
 
Litwin said:
a link? why Koba/satlinists did "transport starving children from Leningrad," DURING THE NIGHTS?
Click to expand...

What are you babbling about?

The NAZIS were the ones trying to starve out the city.

1.2 million civilians perished in Leningrad but around 1.4 million people were rescued by military evacuation between September 1941 and November 1943. ... During the siege, part of the civilian population was evacuated from Leningrad, although many died in the process
-wiki
 
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