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Legal immigration

Where do you stand on legal immigration?

  • We should reduce the amount of skilled immigration

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    24

Kandahar

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The people who constantly complain about illegal immigration are always quick to claim that they are not xenophobic, and are only motivated by a deep concern for the law. Curiously, these people never seem to advocate for easier LEGAL immigration processes...so I thought I'd make a thread to find out where everyone stands on legal immigration. Do we have too much? Not enough?

I think it's a travesty that after our universities educate foreign students, that we kick them out of the country unless they go through the onerous process of finding an employer who is willing to sponsor them for a work visa. This is completely ridiculous. Educated foreigners are not going to live off welfare; they are going to create value and add jobs to the economy. IMO, we should have almost completely open our borders for anyone with a bachelor's degree or higher, as long as there isn't any reason (e.g. crimes, communicable diseases) to keep them out.
 
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TurtleDude

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I am all in favor in making immigration much easier for people who have valuable skills or talent. Like that Cuban Player Chapman who plays for the Reds and set a record fastball (105 MPH) the other night. Or the Indian Gastro doctor who operated on a guy I knew who had bad Chron's disease. Or the Chinese Aircraft engine designer who works for GE and whose kids are in a sports group I coach.

I full agree with you on this issue
 

Coronado

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The people who constantly rant about illegal immigration are always quick to claim that they are not xenophobic, and are only motivated by a deep concern for the law. Curiously, these people never seem to advocate for easier LEGAL immigration processes...so I thought I'd make a thread to find out where everyone stands on legal immigration. Do we have too much? Not enough?

I think it's a travesty that after our universities educate foreign students, that we kick them out of the country unless they go through the onerous process of finding an employer who is willing to sponsor them for a work visa. This is completely ridiculous. Educated foreigners are not going to live off welfare; they are going to create value and add jobs to the economy. IMO, we should have almost completely open our borders for anyone with a bachelor's degree or higher, as long as there isn't any reason (e.g. crimes, communicable diseases) to keep them out.
Regarding your poll question: are you talking about the limits on legal unskilled immigration, or all unskilled immigration? Obviously these are two radically different numbers.
 

Kandahar

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Regarding your poll question: are you talking about the limits on legal unskilled immigration, or all unskilled immigration? Obviously these are two radically different numbers.

Legal unskilled immigration.
 
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Keep the talent, kick the rest out, including the illegals.
 

other

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I know many who are opposed to amnesty (etc) for illegal aliens who also advocate for changing the legal processes to promote skilled labor and/or educated immigrants. The central issue is that the laws in place need to be enforced-- and for good reason. If one holds the position that our nation's immigration policy should be respected and enforced, it doesn't follow that that same person is opposed to legal changes being made to existing policy, but that that person is opposed to the existing policy being ignored or actively circumvented (I would argue, often, for purely political purposes).

That being said, I have no problem with unskilled immigrants, as long as they follow established law both in entering our country and after.
 
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Kal'Stang

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Since I believe that the law should be applied equally across the board I see no reason that a person that is educated should have an easier time of it than someone who is not educated. Besides, don't you know the saying of "if you really want something then you have to work for it"?
 

TurtleDude

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Since I believe that the law should be applied equally across the board I see no reason that a person that is educated should have an easier time of it than someone who is not educated. Besides, don't you know the saying of "if you really want something then you have to work for it"?

I disagree-educated people are far more likely to help the nation than those without any skills.
 

Coronado

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I think the whole body of immigration laws should be scrapped as it is totally ass backwards. It basically does everything to discourage skilled and educated people and (due to lack of enforcement) encourages unskilled people to come in in droves.

Immigration laws as they stand now are so byzantine that they make tax law seem like child's play.
 

molten_dragon

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As part of a comprehensive package of immigration reform, I support making legal immigration easier for unskilled workers. As with most things, I believe the carrot and stick approach works better than either the carrot or stick by itself.
 

Kal'Stang

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I disagree-educated people are far more likely to help the nation than those without any skills.

Educated people are also more likely to beable to do more damage to the nation. While an un-educated person could kill a few people an educated person could kill thousands. So it evens out in the long run.

Also a bit of food for thought here for ya. The richest people in this country are also the most educated people generally correct? Going by that what percentage of people are educated vs uneducated? And yet without those "uneducated" or "unskilled" people those rich folks would not be rich. Because then they would not have the labor force required to build up those businesses.

So don't discount the little guy. He is just as important as some doctor or lawyer or computer guru.
 

Cephus

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We need to do what is best for America and that means skilled labor. I think we need to streamline the citizenship requirements dramatically so that people who want to legally immigrate can do so in a matter of months, not years as it currently stands. I do think this needs to be limited to those either here on legal visas or those who are outside the country. If you're here illegally, you're not eligible for citizenship. Go home for 6 months or so, then try again.
 

jamesrage

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As to who we let in it should be a first come first serve basis. Of course that said there should be a limit of from each country we let in and some pre-checks and requirements. Those wishing to come to the US should have to pass a criminal background check, pass a health screening,be able to financially support themselves, not be from any country we have the most illegal immigration problems with, carry a translation book on them at all times while in the US unless they are proficient in English, not be affiliated with any terrorist or anti-American groups and not be pregnant.
 
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Coronado

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As to who we let in it should be a first come first serve basis. Of course that said there should be a limit of from each country we let in and some pre-checks and requirements. Those wishing to come to the US should have to pass a criminal background check, pass a health screening,be able to financially support themselves, not be from any country we have the most illegal immigration problems with, carry a translation book on them at all times while in the US unless they are proficient in English, not be affiliated with any terrorist or anti-American groups and not be pregnant.
So basically we punish the honest people for the misdeeds of other dishonest people. Nice.
 

jamesrage

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So basically we punish the honest people for the misdeeds of other dishonest people. Nice.

Only until those that are here illegally leave. Not all of the illegals sneaked across the border. As my drill sergeants used to say it only takes one of you to **** **** up for everybody else and in the case of letting people into our country it takes several million or more to **** **** up for everybody else.
 

Coronado

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Only until those that are here illegally leave. Not all of the illegals sneaked across the border.
Relevance? Why should it matter how they got here?
As my drill sergeants used to say it only takes one of you to **** **** up for everybody else and in the case of letting people into our country it takes several million or more to **** **** up for everybody else.
That's fine for the Army, but this isn't the Army we're talking about. In any event, you're talking about collective punishment, where the offender is punished with all the other non-offenders. In your scenario, the non-offenders are punished in place of the offenders. That solves nothing.
 

jamesrage

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Relevance? Why should it matter how they got here?
Then you should not see it as a punishing everybody else issue but a over the limit of how many people from a particular country we want to let in issue.



That's fine for the Army, but this isn't the Army we're talking about. In any event, you're talking about collective punishment, where the offender is punished with all the other non-offenders. In your scenario, the non-offenders are punished in place of the offenders. That solves nothing.

Coming into our country is not a right. It is a privileged that can be revoked at any time for any reason and should be revoked especially when it comes to problem countries.
 

Coronado

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Then you should not see it as a punishing everybody else issue but a over the limit of how many people from a particular country we want to let in issue.
Why should we have quotas as to country of origin?
Coming into our country is not a right. It is a privileged that can be revoked at any time for any reason and should be revoked especially when it comes to problem countries.
That's a non-responsive answer. First you said it was punishment, now you say it isn't.
 

Kandahar

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Coming into our country is not a right. It is a privileged that can be revoked at any time for any reason and should be revoked especially when it comes to problem countries.

The whole notion of "problem countries" is a perfect example of the racism that turns people off to anti-immigrant arguments. Why should a skilled worker from Mexico who pursues the legal path to immigration be treated any differently than a skilled worker from Belgium who pursues the legal path to immigration? Do either of them have any control over the actions of unskilled Mexicans crossing into the US without documentation?

Skilled immigrants are a huge boon to the economy. There is no reason why we need ANY cap on the number of skilled immigrants who come here. The more, the merrier. For unskilled workers, I recognize that we need SOME limitations...but even among unskilled workers we could certainly stand to have more legal immigration than we currently do.
 
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jamesrage

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Why should we have quotas as to country of origin?


Because we can not let in everybody and the same time we do want a diverse pool of people coming into this country not just mostly one group of people from a single country.

That's a non-responsive answer. First you said it was punishment,

It is a answer. We do not have to let anyone into our country.If we have problem countries like illegal immigration problems or some thing else then we should cut that country off.


now you say it isn't.

I never said it was not a punishment. I only merely stated how you can look at it.
 

Coronado

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Because we can not let in everybody and the same time we do want a diverse pool of people coming into this country not just mostly one group of people from a single country.
Why not?
It is a answer. We do not have to let anyone into our country.If we have problem countries like illegal immigration problems or some thing else then we should cut that country off.




I never said it was not a punishment. I only merely stated how you can look at it.
So what is it if not punishment?
 

jamesrage

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Because we have public schools, welfare, foodstamps, and section 8 housing which would be a drain on those who pay taxes. We have scum in office who think new immigrants do not have to learn the language so they would be making multilingual forms, require tax payer funded employees to be multilingual which would also be an additional cost to those who pay taxes. There is is also diseases,viruses and other things to worry about if we just let in everybody.


So what is it if not punishment?

So then you were not really concerned about others being punished for the actions of others? You whining about others being punished for the actions of several million is just a ploy.
 

Coronado

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Because we have public schools, welfare, foodstamps, and section 8 housing which would be a drain on those who pay taxes. We have scum in office who think new immigrants do not have to learn the language so they would be making multilingual forms, require tax payer funded employees to be multilingual which would also be an additional cost to those who pay taxes. There is is also diseases,viruses and other things to worry about if we just let in everybody.




So then you were not really concerned about others being punished for the actions of others? You whining about others being punished for the actions of several million is just a ploy.
As usual, the nativist xenophobia eventually breaks through the veil of specious arguments, leaving a path of hyperbole and ad hominem behind it. Happens every time.

Just be honest and say you want to keep all the chinks and greasers out. It would save us both a lot of time. :)
 

Kal'Stang

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Why is it that whenever someone talks against easy immigration or illegal aliens that someone is "xenophobic"?

As usual, the nativist xenophobia eventually breaks through the veil of specious arguments, leaving a path of hyperbole and ad hominem behind it. Happens every time.

Just be honest and say you want to keep all the chinks and greasers out. It would save us both a lot of time. :)

Do you even know what xenophobia is? If someone is for legal immigration and also wants it to be controlled (weather tightly controlled or not) that is NOT xenophobia.

Mirriam-Webster Defination of xenophobia

And where's the ad hominem?
 
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