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Legacy of poor Economics

Canuck

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Total US Govt debt now stands at $7,970 billion. $26,500 for each and every person in the US -- over $100,000 additional debt for the average family of four.

When Enron fell, It took the retirement savings of many many people along with it.
Ford now , teetering on colapse, has a legacy of toxic waste lands ,all over New jersey.
Gm is under so much debt , that they can no longer field competative models
savings and loan scandal .
The evacuation of american jobs to overseas countries ,coupled with the influx of millions of illegal imigrants.

Can someone explain to me WTF is going on .
are the ELITE bailing out of AMERICA ,leaving a 3 rd world legacy in it's wake
what exactly is the economic plan for America today.
Is there a plan at all
 

Iriemon

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Canuck said:
Total US Govt debt now stands at $7,970 billion. $26,500 for each and every person in the US -- over $100,000 additional debt for the average family of four.

When Enron fell, It took the retirement savings of many many people along with it.
Ford now , teetering on colapse, has a legacy of toxic waste lands ,all over New jersey.
Gm is under so much debt , that they can no longer field competative models
savings and loan scandal .
The evacuation of american jobs to overseas countries ,coupled with the influx of millions of illegal imigrants.

Can someone explain to me WTF is going on .
are the ELITE bailing out of AMERICA ,leaving a 3 rd world legacy in it's wake
what exactly is the economic plan for America today.
Is there a plan at all
I think the plan is pander to the electorate by promising and giving voters 1) lower taxes and 2) more spending. Not many Americans apparently appreciate the consequence; even fewer seem to care.
 

Ima Troll

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Canuck said:
Total US Govt debt now stands at $7,970 billion. $26,500 for each and every person in the US -- over $100,000 additional debt for the average family of four.

When Enron fell, It took the retirement savings of many many people along with it.
Ford now , teetering on colapse, has a legacy of toxic waste lands ,all over New jersey.
Gm is under so much debt , that they can no longer field competative models
savings and loan scandal .
The evacuation of american jobs to overseas countries ,coupled with the influx of millions of illegal imigrants.

Can someone explain to me WTF is going on .
are the ELITE bailing out of AMERICA ,leaving a 3 rd world legacy in it's wake
what exactly is the economic plan for America today.
Is there a plan at all
capitalistic corporations are inherently structured to generate short term profits, despite the accumulation of longer term debt; however, the US is relatively free of foreign bill collectors that have any real power to demand repayment
 

Iriemon

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Ima Troll said:
capitalistic corporations are inherently structured to generate short term profits, despite the accumulation of longer term debt; however, the US is relatively free of foreign bill collectors that have any real power to demand repayment
US defaulting on its debt would have serious negative consequences.
 

Ima Troll

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Iriemon said:
US defaulting on its debt would have serious negative consequences.
such as? wouldnt it only affect the poor people? its okay if it only affects the poor people
 

Iriemon

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Ima Troll said:
such as? wouldnt it only affect the poor people? its okay if it only affects the poor people
It would totally destroy the value of the dollar, the credit of the US, and screw over US debtholders.
 

Ima Troll

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Iriemon said:
It would totally destroy the value of the dollar, the credit of the US, and screw over US debtholders.
wouldnt this only really affect the poor people? its okay if it only affects the poor people
 

Ima Troll

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Iriemon said:
No.


Not IMO.
in what way are the rich substantively affected? beyond losing a few dollars here and there?
 

Canuck

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Ima Troll said:
capitalistic corporations are inherently structured to generate short term profits, despite the accumulation of longer term debt; however, the US is relatively free of foreign bill collectors that have any real power to demand repayment

that leaves your creditors barren and unable to lend more cash to the usa
and as the country borrows 500+ billion more each year If you remove that borrowing the country will fall into third world status or a severe spending cut back will need to be done leaving higher taxes,on an already destitute population a la mexico style
The ELite have stolen America's crown jewels,and plundered it's landscape leaving in it's wake a legacy of toxic messes
I tell you that it will be hardtimes
1/3 cant pay its share of the natl debt
they are destitute
1/3 dont pay taxes the elite wont pay their share of the debt

your down to the middle class like always
and they are disappearing 2.7 miilin mid class jobs gone since 2001
with the demise of the delfi oracle or (debacle i should say)
we see the slide into a third world staus happening everywhere

the elite have run your govt. into the ground
the Elephant and the ass are mere fronts for the elite

and when the elite are down as in stk market scandals and stk market crash of 2000
they will turn America into a third world state before capitulating defeat
is in every corner of America except HALiburton

it has gone far beyond being able to fix the economy using sound accounting
America needs a finacial services consultant to skirt filing chapt 11
thats how bad it is becoming
with a natl debt that some people like you suggest is not a repayable debt
we see the out of control attitude of
BORROW BORROW BORROW we dont have to pay it back
I wonder if you can keep BORROWing
the creditors are becoming nervous america is at the point of not being able to pay it back without raising taxes especially on the ELITE those that can pay more
theres a hard rain a gona fall as dylan would say
 
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Iriemon

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Ima Troll said:
in what way are the rich substantively affected? beyond losing a few dollars here and there?
IMO everyone will be affected if the US defaults on its obligations and the dollar comes crashing down along with the economy. Apart from that, I'd guess that the rich are among those who hold US debt.
 

Canuck

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Japan and China are the principal holders of US debt

scare tactics at delfi push mid class incomes into poverty level incomes
America
is the poor the destitute and the weary
masses huddled in the basement clutching duct tape and plastic waiting for the big bopper


not pretty
so you better pay your debts ASAP
geeorgie boy wants to sink america into a third world status to escape repayment
the result will be a third world status imposed on america while he and the ELITE walk around like gods of delfi ,insulated by billions of$ scammed
from american cofers
 

Ima Troll

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Canuck said:
that leaves your creditors barren and unable to lend more cash to the usa
and as the country borrows 500+ billion more each year If you remove that borrowing the country will fall into third world status or a severe spending cut back will need to be done leaving higher taxes,on an already destitute population a la mexico style
i have a wild idea; perhaps the US should stop borrowing money for a few years; whaddaya think?
The ELite have stolen America's crown jewels,and plundered it's landscape leaving in it's wake a legacy of toxic messes
I tell you that it will be hardtimes
1/3 cant pay its share of the natl debt
they are destitute
1/3 dont pay taxes the elite wont pay their share of the debt
just print more money, and pay back the whole national debt in a single day; before foreign nations realize that the money is valueless, they'll have canceled the debts

your down to the middle class like always
and they are disappearing 2.7 miilin mid class jobs gone since 2001
with the demise of the delfi oracle or (debacle i should say)
we see the slide into a third world staus happening everywhere
i thought we were already poorer than third world countries, economically speaking; they dont actually owe as much money as we do

the elite have run your govt. into the ground
the Elephant and the ass are mere fronts for the elite

and when the elite are down as in stk market scandals and stk market crash of 2000
they will turn America into a third world state before capitulating defeat
is in every corner of America except HALiburton
it is my perspective that we are already poorer than third world countries

for example, who is poorest?:

1. an upper class person with a $1,000,000 mansion but who is in another $2,000,000 of personal debt?
2. a middle class person who lives in a $50,000 trailer who is in another $25,000 of debt?
3. a homeless person with $5 in the wallet but no debt?

it has gone far beyond being able to fix the economy using sound accounting
America needs a finacial services consultant to skirt filing chapt 11
thats how bad it is becoming
with a natl debt that some people like you suggest is not a repayable debt
we see the out of control attitude of
BORROW BORROW BORROW we dont have to pay it back
I wonder if you can keep BORROWing
i reiterate my wild idea; no borrowing in 2006 for the US; not even a dollar; whaddaya think?; good idea?

the creditors are becoming nervous america is at the point of not being able to pay it back without raising taxes especially on the ELITE those that can pay more
theres a hard rain a gona fall as dylan would say
taxes will go to the middle class; not the elite; who controls the taxation after all?
 

Ima Troll

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Iriemon said:
IMO everyone will be affected if the US defaults on its obligations and the dollar comes crashing down along with the economy. Apart from that, I'd guess that the rich are among those who hold US debt.
i suggest that the rich will simply transfer their obligations to the middle class and the poor; this will effectively eliminate the middle class
 

Iriemon

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Ima Troll said:
i suggest that the rich will simply transfer their obligations to the middle class and the poor; this will effectively eliminate the middle class
I'm not sure how this relates to the consequences of the US defaulting on its debt obligations.
 

Ima Troll

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Iriemon said:
I'm not sure how this relates to the consequences of the US defaulting on its debt obligations.
thats if we pay; do you consider default to be imminent?
 

Iriemon

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Ima Troll said:
thats if we pay; do you consider default to be imminent?
The Govt will not default. We are a long way from that. If it has to the Fed can create money and lend it to the Govt. Though that would cause another hose of economic problems.

What will happen long before that is at some point, creditors will see more risk in lending $$ to the US Govt. Not a fear that the Govt will default on its payment, but the fear that with the growing debt the US will not be able to maintain the value of the dollar. If there is fear the dollar will devalue, creditors will be less likely to lend money because of the fear that when they are paid back the dollars they are paid back will be worth less because of the devaluation. As a consequence, creditors will demand higher interest before they loan money to the US govt. When that happens, interest expense on the debt (now at $350 billion a year) could skyrocket, creating further pressure on the deficits.
 

Ima Troll

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Iriemon said:
The Govt will not default. We are a long way from that. If it has to the Fed can create money and lend it to the Govt. Though that would cause another hose of economic problems.

What will happen long before that is at some point, creditors will see more risk in lending $$ to the US Govt. Not a fear that the Govt will default on its payment, but the fear that with the growing debt the US will not be able to maintain the value of the dollar. If there is fear the dollar will devalue, creditors will be less likely to lend money because of the fear that when they are paid back the dollars they are paid back will be worth less because of the devaluation. As a consequence, creditors will demand higher interest before they loan money to the US govt. When that happens, interest expense on the debt (now at $350 billion a year) could skyrocket, creating further pressure on the deficits.
makes a lotta sense; thanks much
 

Canuck

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Iriemon said:
The Govt will not default. We are a long way from that. If it has to the Fed can create money and lend it to the Govt. Though that would cause another hose of economic problems.

What will happen long before that is at some point, creditors will see more risk in lending $$ to the US Govt. Not a fear that the Govt will default on its payment, but the fear that with the growing debt the US will not be able to maintain the value of the dollar. If there is fear the dollar will devalue, creditors will be less likely to lend money because of the fear that when they are paid back the dollars they are paid back will be worth less because of the devaluation. As a consequence, creditors will demand higher interest before they loan money to the US govt. When that happens, interest expense on the debt (now at $350 billion a year) could skyrocket, creating further pressure on the deficits.
I agree it won't default, and taxes are going up sharply ,and also that
the AMERICAN $ is heading down to a level that is very uncomfortable for all concerned

these will all happen to some degree
Canadain currency at par will not be out of the question

and if the creditors should call in the debt ,which I don;t think they would do,At least not Japan,China is another matter .if they dont get more access to more free trade with America , they could call it in.
I dont think it would happen though
but if they did
AMERICA couldn't pay the debt owed
it would sink the AMERICAN dollar to the point that an american dollar would get you a bubble and a tooth pick with 1 cent change


there is no doubt, more deflation of the AMERICAN $ IS COMING.
MORE TAXES ARE COMING .
MORE INFLATION.
 

Ether

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Iriemon said:
US defaulting on its debt would have serious negative consequences.
You should probably note "Imatrolls" screen name. ;)

Nevertheless, he has a point. I thought you didn't want the government to borrow money? Cancelling the debt would do the trick.
 

Iriemon

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Ether said:
You should probably note "Imatrolls" screen name. ;)

Nevertheless, he has a point. I thought you didn't want the government to borrow money? Cancelling the debt would do the trick.
LOL, well you have a point. After defaulting on the debt, I doubt many would be really eager to lend more money to the Govt.
 

Ima Troll

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Ether said:
You should probably note "Imatrolls" screen name. ;)
my mother gave me that name; im very proud of it
 

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this canadian knows

america on the brink

7,000+billion in debt and racking up 500+ billion each year
it works out to
26,000 per person
1/3 cant pay their share they are destitute
1/3 the elite rich have their money offshore and dont pay taxes on it

the last 1/3 is the middle class which is dwindling fast due to outsourcing and plant closings
leaving the rest of the middle class with a burden in excess of 90.000$ us natl debt
add to that their personal debt like mrotgages ,car loans, etc...
their personal debt is staggering alone

what you end up with is
the rich elite are insulated in off shore banks
america slipping into third world status
and no where to turn but to seek foriegn oil wells to try and fix the problems
while americans buy from the walmart / consortium to build chinese economy
so elite rich class gets more money
every thing is broken
broken levees broken homes
broken teeth and broken bones
every thing is broken
 

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Iriemon said:
LOL, well you have a point. After defaulting on the debt, I doubt many would be really eager to lend more money to the Govt.

I'm not trying to be amusing. Debt cancellation would be a far better policy if you really weigh it against the alternative of paying off the debt (and continuing to service it for God knows how long). At least, I can only justify that argument on economic grounds. There would be severe diplomatic consequences for the United States which must also be taken into consideration. That is for the foreign affairs analysts to comment on in another forum.
 

Canuck

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Ether said:
I'm not trying to be amusing. Debt cancellation would be a far better policy if you really weigh it against the alternative of paying off the debt (and continuing to service it for God knows how long). At least, I can only justify that argument on economic grounds. There would be severe diplomatic consequences for the United States which must also be taken into consideration. That is for the foreign affairs analysts to comment on in another forum.
your vision calls for a $ worth only 8 cents
and bubblegum that costs 7 cents

it kind of works only for the top 10% of the richest people
as they dont pay taxes on their off sore accounts and take a holiday to canda when the going gets rough

Ithought all the bright minds of the nintendo generation would of been able to come up with a fresh Idea
Perhaps create a new currency and call it the

cantexmex
1 cantexmex is equal to 10 american dolars
or 5 euros
like mexico did with the peso
and russia did with the rupple

when the economy is in rubble and people live in third world living accomodations
you have to think like other countries did when they faced poverty
a broken american dream the elite have you by the balls
 
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